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Old 10-25-2013, 04:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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These questions relate to conduct/attitude to be displayed at BB readings.
I do not wish to be controversial, offensive, or disrespectful.

(1) I note at such meetings, I have attended such for 7 months, that invariably discussion involves agreement with all that has been read. Would some questioning be out of place?

(2) RE (1) How does this apply to treasurer, secretary etc.

(3) As a generalization, are all BB comments more or less equally weighted.
I have been told that the stuff written in italics is more important.

(4) As I recently became secretary of a BB group I do not want to create controversy, nor do I wish to agree with issues I do not personally feel happy about. Perhaps I should resign as secretary??

I really see it as walking a fine line in some areas and would appreciate any advice..
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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(4) As I recently became secretary of a BB group I do not want to create controversy, nor do I wish to agree with issues I do not personally feel happy about. Perhaps I should resign as secretary??
I just got the commitment to secretary our meeting on Tuesdays. For me doing service is not about agreeing or not agreeing, it is about me staying sober. We keep it by giving it away.
I don't know what the secretary s job entails in your home group but in mine, it entails reading the preamble, asking people to read how it works etc., circulating the roster, signing court papers and collecting the money from the basket, putting it in an envelope and giving it to our treasurer. Nothing controversial about the job, it is about facilitating the meeting.
As far as the Big Book is concerned, I do not attend meetings when chapter 8 "To Wives" is discussed LOL
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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(1) I don't think that some questioning would be out of place. I think there are different interpretations of what message a particular passage in the book means. If you are talking about questioning the validity of the passage itself (i.e. it being wrong), I dunno. I'm not saying you would be wrong to do it, only that it would be like questioning the validity of a passage in the bible at a bible study.

(2) Can't help you there, I have yet to hold a position in a group.

(3) I have been taught (and agree) that the parts of the BB that are in italics are more important. Italics were used sparingly in the BB, and when they are used it is to stress the importance of what it is saying.

(4) I have no opinion here
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I just got the commitment to secretary our meeting on Tuesdays. For me doing service is not about agreeing or not agreeing, it is about me staying sober. We keep it by giving it away.
I don't know what the secretary s job entails in your home group but in mine, it entails reading the preamble, asking people to read how it works etc., circulating the roster, signing court papers and collecting the money from the basket, putting it in an envelope and giving it to our treasurer. Nothing controversial about the job, it is about facilitating the meeting.
As far as the Big Book is concerned, I do not attend meetings when chapter 8 "To Wives" is discussed LOL
That's what our chairperson does around here. You don't have to be a member of that group to chair a meeting, but most people are either regular attendees or it is their home group. I don't hold a "position" at my home group but I do sign up to chair a meeting once a month.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Secretary positions in my group are merely there to make sure the doors are open and there is a leader for the meeting and run the group conscience meetings, if there is one.

As far as sharing goes, my sharing ALWAYS reflects me and me alone. I don't speak for AA. A secretary doesn't speak as the authority.

And questions about the interpretation of the BB can be presented in shares, of course, but be prepared for as many different opinions on what you share as there are people.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have attended Big Book studies on and off for the past 12 years and to be honest the ones I found most useful were the ones where there was actual discussion about the passages rather than blind agreement. Far too often the passages are not delved into any further than a first glance when there is so much more that can be found when the passages are put in context, background is added, how they inter-relate with other passages in the Big Book is studied, how they relate to a person's sobriety today is shared, etc...

To me the whole point of a Big Book study is to broaden and deepen the reader's understanding of the simple yet profound spiritual concepts described in the Big Book. Even after 12 years of sobriety and a lot of Big Book meetings and a lot of personal Big Book study I still find so much that I learn every time I pick up the Big Book. Even this year I found a passage that I finally realized I had been understanding entirely wrong for the past 12 years and it was enlightening to finally understand the deeper meaning in the passage.

There are some good tools available to get a discussion going on passages in the Big Book. One that I really like and actually use on a regular basis to help me understand the Big Book better is called "The Annotated AA Handbook, A Companion to the Big Book" by Fank D. Basically it includes the entire text and personal stories from the 1st edition of the Big Book along with hundreds of explanatory paragraphs and thousands of cross-references. I found my copy on Amazon a few years ago.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I just got the commitment to secretary our meeting on Tuesdays. For me doing service is not about agreeing or not agreeing, it is about me staying sober. We keep it by giving it away.
I don't know what the secretary s job entails in your home group but in mine, it entails reading the preamble, asking people to read how it works etc., circulating the roster, signing court papers and collecting the money from the basket, putting it in an envelope and giving it to our treasurer. Nothing controversial about the job, it is about facilitating the meeting.
As far as the Big Book is concerned, I do not attend meetings when chapter 8 "To Wives" is discussed LOL
Thanks Carlotta, I think a somewhat laid back learning, sharing, creative approach need not be a bad thing.
I will play it by ear, and try and adopt as balanced approach as I can.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I cannot speak for all BB meetings or groups, only the one I attend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubovski View Post
(1) I note at such meetings, I have attended such for 7 months, that invariably discussion involves agreement with all that has been read. Would some questioning be out of place?
I don't feel any questions or comments are out of place but if the question is lengthy then it may be best kept to discuss with your sponsor. I find that some bring intense or in-depth issues they are having to the floor and that it sometimes takes away from the meeting. I am there to help other, for sure, but it is also not fair to others to take over the entire meeting with one persons view or issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubovski View Post
(2) RE (1) How does this apply to treasurer, secretary etc.
I don't feel it applies. You are still a member and although you have some responsibilities during the meeting you still have the same standing as a regular member when it comes to discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubovski View Post
(3) As a generalization, are all BB comments more or less equally weighted.I have been told that the stuff written in italics is more important.
I have never been told this. Everything is read and holds equal weight IMO. I do feel it should be read and not skipped over like a footnote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubovski View Post
(4) As I recently became secretary of a BB group I do not want to create controversy, nor do I wish to agree with issues I do not personally feel happy about. Perhaps I should resign as secretary??
I guess I am not sure what issues you are referring to. If you mean group issues then when you have a group meeting you can bring them up. That does not mean you will get your way. It is a group conscience and a vote is usually done to agree or disagree on any changes. There is nothing wrong with bringing them up if you feel strongly about them.

If you are referring to ideas or meanings of the BB that you don't agree with then I feel it is best to take that up with your sponsor. I don't mean that to sound like I don't want to hear your problems, I mean it so you can get into a more detailed discussion on your opinions. That does not mean you are going to change your mind or that your sponsor will attempt to change it for you. It means we have an hour and everyone deserves a chance to speak. Some of the best meetings we have are a discussion that lasted the entire time and only three paragraphs were read. Quality and not quantity I think comes to mind at a BB meeting.

I love my BB meeting because I get so much more out of it because I can listen while others read. I hear things that I swear I never read before even though I have. Also the comments from others can help me see it from another point of view. There are times I am not relating to a story and then someone says something and it clicks that I indeed have felt that way or experienced that.

If you are new to the position I would give it more time. I am a secretary at one meeting and I stamp/sign the court papers and I sign the lead certificate. It was passed to me, well more like they asked me to do it one night and then it was my job, but that is okay. I think that is how it works sometimes. Someone pulls out the chair to see if you are ready to sit in it and I was.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Good Morning

1)
I see the big book as a 'manual' for living sober and content.
Tend to follow the manual because i already have accepted that i don't know how to live sober my way.
When i used to fix my car, i would follow the manual until i decided to skip bits or take 'my' shortcuts.
Most often the car was at the garage days later in a worse state than when i'd started!!!

2)
I see my role of chairperson at one meeting as that of a facilitator.
Nothing more.
I open the meeting, help it run smoothly and close it when appropriate.
I observe traditions and avoid controversy.

3)
BB references in italics seem to be used to emphasize certain ideas, salient points and important concepts.
These are usually explored in the text that precedes or follows.

4)
Up to you if you resign.
I had opinions on everything when i first joined the fellowship.
Indeed, my best thinking had gotten me drunk on the floor, surrounded by my own filth, begging to a God that i had turned from for mercy!
Then i had to get 'stupid'.
I decided to do what was suggested by sober folk in the meetings.
And set my shining intellect aside for a while.

And i started getting sober....

G
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone for your input, all of which I will consider, synthesise, and try and do my best.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:50 AM   #11 (permalink)
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"These questions relate to conduct/attitude to be displayed at BB readings.
I do not wish to be controversial, offensive, or disrespectful.

(1) I note at such meetings, I have attended such for 7 months, that invariably discussion involves agreement with all that has been read. Would some questioning be out of place?"

"Our book is meant to be suggestive only."
questioning is great! getting different views is great. that's openmindedness.


im with Carlotta on chapter 8 and also "the family afterwards." theres suggestions in there I don't agree with, suggestions that didn't help my family at all and IMO are somewhat enabling.
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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One issue that divides people on AA seems to be the issue of discussion. Because no one is allowed to respond to other speakers at meetings, there is no questioning. Some people find this gives the program clarity. Others find it does the opposite.

It can be a hard program for people who learn better through dialog. I think SR probably makes it easier for such people. I am not in the program anymore--I really did not understand much about it. I think that if there has be SR or something like it, where I could ask questions and dialog with people who knew more about AA, I might have found it more helpful.

Everything has its place I suppose. Meetings are where you go to hear how well the program works for people. For questioning, they are just not the place....I sincerely think that anyone who does not find a place where he or she can do that will not last in the program. It may be SR or a therapist or even people from the rooms that you speak to outside of meetings.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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[QUOTEI sincerely think that anyone who does not find a place where he or she can do that will not last in the program. It may be SR or a therapist or even people from the rooms that you speak to outside of meetings.][/QUOTE]

A sponsor is a great person to have for this purpose.
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The only thing I have to say here is that you can disagree without being disagreeable. If there's something in the BB that you don't agree with, or that you think is misunderstood, talk about it. Your service position has absolutely no bearing on your individuality, and should not make you feel like you have to be more like a sheep then the person that you are

At the end of the day the BB was written by humans. It is a path that works, but like anything done by humans it has flaws. Just as I was told not to put the people in my circle on a pedestal, so I do not put Bill W and Dr.Bob on a pedestal, and that means their works too. I get alot out of the BB and the 12x12, but neither book is perfect.

I have my opinions about a few things in the book, and I have brought them up before. There's this guy, lets call him Greg. Greg is a member of my homegroup and has some significant time, coming up on two decades. Yet his ego is larger then my house. I have been involved in a couple of discussions with him about my opinions and ideas, and every time without fail I end up feeling like my opinions have no validity, like I was a fool for even using my brain. I've come to not talk with Greg anymore. There are other people that are willing to hear me out and have a civilized discussion with me regarding my thoughts, and if they are in error they do not shove that in my face but rather state their own beliefs and leave me to come to my own conclusions.

Discussion without internal controversy is how I've come to see my opinions come against others opinions. It has actually helped me to understand the book a little bit more.
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Steven.
I really like what you say.
It is a fine line between self expression and the over all group good.
I am not saying I am "right" more like enquiring, and for me this is the healthy way to go.

Also, I always do my best (well most times) not to tread on toes ,by not respecting other views. Essentially we are all in this together!
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Old 10-27-2013, 06:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Grungehead--It can be hard to find a sponsor willing to talk to a new sponsee. I know that my (admittedly old school) sponsors did not feel that it was their job to be my buddy and made it clear we would not be talking much till I was ready for a fourth step.

But if someone can find a sponsor who is willing to be available that is great.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Grungehead--It can be hard to find a sponsor willing to talk to a new sponsee.
Excuse me? That may, unfortunately, have been your experience, but I wouldn't say it holds true in general. By and large, sponsors spend a great deal of time guiding a new person through the Steps. I would say the whole point of being a sponsor requires willingness to talk to a new sponsee. Obviously, we're going to talk about the things useful and necessary for having a spiritual awakening, and these may not be the things a new sponsee wants to talk about.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Grungehead--It can be hard to find a sponsor willing to talk to a new sponsee. I know that my (admittedly old school) sponsors did not feel that it was their job to be my buddy and made it clear we would not be talking much till I was ready for a fourth step.

But if someone can find a sponsor who is willing to be available that is great.
Hi MF. It sounds like you had a really crap AA experience. I had a really old school sponsor, and he could not do enough. I still look back at his selfless example and wonder if I could ever live up to it. He was absolutely key to me surviving to even start the 4th. The other oldtimers of that time, all got sober in the 60s and 70s, were much the same if i remeber correctly.

And I can understand your frustration at not being able to respond to anothers share (in a helpful way to share experience that might help). I have been to one meeting in my life that has that rule and it is the sickest meeting I have ever been to. It was just a dumping ground for peoples problems with no solution offered because it was against the rules. I suppose any group is entitles to have what rules it wants, but I don't know of any approved literature that suggests this is a good way to do it.

When I joined the fellowship, the chair actually gave a little feedback to each speaker. I don't suppose it did much good, and was probably wide of the mark a lot of the time, but it had two benefits. First the speaker knew that someone had heard what he said, and second, the chair had to pay attention to every speaker lol. We stopped doing that sometime in the late 80s.

In our BB study, it is recognised that as a text book, it is an account of what the first one hundred did, and the influence of the many helpers from outside. It worked pretty well as a spiritual means of recovery. It says this is what we did and this is what happened as a result - it shows how "they recovered" So this is established fact.

It suggests we might like to follow along. So in the sense that questioning and discussion deepen understanding about meaning and context, we get into that big time. We want to know what they meant and how to apply it to ourselves. We don't "disagree" with the book because that would be illogical. But we may raise questions where we are having trouble seeing the point of something as it applies to us. With input from others, our understanding can improve.
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Essentially we are all in this together!
I would suggest to first ask your sponsor, and then perhaps bring up your concerns at a business meeting. The group conscience should decide whether or not it's okay for the secretary to disagree with the Big Book.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Colffusion --I thought that not responding was central to the program. In every group I ever attended they were pretty strict about not allowing crosstalk. It is always interesting to find out how many variations there are in the program.

kiethj--I know that there are sponsor who get more involved at the start, but they are the ones who do the tests of willingness, which I think can be really destructive. The old-timers (at least in where I have lived) want to see some proof of seriousness before they invest time, so they do not get that involved until Step 4. (Since the first three steps are the ones that are given not worked that makes sense to me. Yes, doing all the crazy tasks may prove you did those first steps--but it does not cause them to happen.)

To be fair, with all the people who drift in and out, and sponsors already in short supply, they cannot extend themselves to everyone. It may be frustrating but it is understandable.

I am writing about Florida--the rehab capital of the world. I guess it may be different in places without so may newbies.
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