WakeUp

We had so much fun with Tradition Three, let's look at Tradition Five.

Each group has but one primary purpose-to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

Our co-founder Bill said that it is better to do one thing well than many things bad.

The thing that AA does is one alcoholic helps another. That's it. In the old days, people thought AA did so well with helping alcoholics, maybe it will become a new world religion. Today the drunks, tomorrow the world!

But no, "shoemaker, stick to thy last."

We can't save the world. We have one primary purpose, to carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers. The Washingtonians tried to save the world, first drunks, then they got into the abolishtion of slavery, the temperance movement, all sorts of thing, and they collapsed.

Today, it means that when I'm in a meeting, I can't fix someone's depression, marital problems, financial problems, ect. I can only do one thing well, talk about my experience with alcoholism. That I am an expert in.

Bill called success a heady wine, it makes us forget that we exist but for the grace of God.

Research for this post comes from a Grapevine article of 1948.
Bill said success was a heady wine, and pride will let us forget we exist but for the grace of God.

DayTrader

I heard Chris Raymer and then Myers Raymer talk about this in several of their open talks and it really freaked me out......which led to me making some big changes in how I spoke at tables, how I worked with sponsees, and how I practiced "my" (lol) program.

They stressed, over and over, "to carry IT'S MESSAGE..." Well, "Waat's it's message...whats the message you're carrying?" The message is, of course, the AA program of recovery - the 12 steps - the promise of a spiritual awakening if they're followed, recovery from alcoholism, and all the cool 5th / 9th / 10th step promises plus all the other that are sprinkled throughout the book.

They really got me when they suggested that if someone new walks in the door and they're getting their ass kicked by alcoholism, isn't it safe to say they were led here for AA's proven program of recovery? That being true.....who do I think I am to show them "my" version or to show them some alternate program of recovery? Was I willing to risk their life upon "my program?" Anyway......I kinda freaked out a bit when I realized the error in my ways.....which got me back into the book with some renewed motivation. I made the decision that I was no longer willing to put someone's life on the line with anything other than "the" program. To be fair, I still tell them what I do.....AA-in-the-book-stuff or not but I'm careful to let ppl know it's just what I DO and what works FOR ME.

Another thing this tradition reminds me is that it doesn't say "to the newcomer who's suffering." Sometimes, the alkie who's suffering is the old-timer, mid-timer, or the guy with a year or two sitting across the table from me. This tradition asks me just how big a pair do I have....do I have the balls and the humility (yep, both.....at the same time - lol) to carry a message to the guy with 2, 5, or 10 TIMES the time since his last drink as me? Can I do it in a way that's attractive and doesn't come off as egotistical? --For that one, I've found I need a LOT of divine intervention because, for whatever reason, anyone who's got substantially more time than me intimidates me.....I get somewhat nervous about trying to carry a message to them.

Finally, this tradition reminds me that I'M not the problem solver, God is. This is part of the "carry it's message" deal mentioned above but it's really important so I say it again. I'm not my sponsees higher power. Now sure, I want them to discuss their problems with me but THE MESSAGE is that I point them ultimately the God of THEIR understanding for solutions, direction and power. I can only do so much for them, ya know? My ego wants to think I have all the answers, wants to give advice, and then wants the credit for fixing someone. I see the same sort of thing here on SR alllllllll the time (not so much in this forum but in the alcoholism threads and especially in the newcomer's threads). I really try to stay away from judging someone's life and telling them what to do to solve their problem. I may tell them my opinion but I make darn sure to tell 'em it's JUST my opinion.....and I try to direct them to God for the REAL answers. God is where the real juice is...that's where the real serenity comes from.....not from me.

That last point reeeeally got driven home when I got a sponsee who'd been in the program for 5 yrs, went back out and drank for 5 or 6 years and then made it back to the fellowship. In talking with him, he HAD a really great sponsor. A real take-charge kind of guy. The problem was, the sponsor died and all his sponsees were left in the dark - their source of power, guidance and direction was gone....and more than a couple of them went back out. "It's message," to me, reminds me to point the ppl I speak with to God....not to my mind - heh, the same one that GOT me in all the trouble I got into.

Music

Great comments. I'm a simple guy so I'll keep this simple. I carry the message of my sobriety to anyone who has a concern about alcohol. I don't carry my message to people who have problems other than alcohol because I'm just not qualified. I'm the first one to tell guys I sponsor that I'm not a marriage counselor, a drug addict, over eatter, nor do I have any sort of medical degree which gives me the right to tell them what to do about physical problems or whether or not to take medications as directed by a real doctor. I could go on but that wouldn't be keeping it simple.

WakeUp

Great comments DayTrader. I will add that I don't carry the message of the slogans. "put the plug in the jug! Just don't drink, NO MATTER WHAT! One day at a time!" oh oh, the parrot wants to speak, squak, whistle put the plug in the jug squak whistle.

I carry the message of recovery from alcoholism and will do it if even if I'marad,foaming at the mouth BigBook thumper. Just make sure i'm a attracting,not promoting thumper.

BTW,Chris Raymer is coming to my area next year .
I want to get a group together and see if I riot breaks out in my car afterward!

Tommyh

The thing that AA does is one alcoholic helps another
and we are the best in the world at sobering up alcoholics

keithj

This is true, but AA is more than that. "The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action. This is the great news this book carries to those who suffer from alcoholism."

There is great power and good in a group of people with a common problem helping others to overcome that problem. The point of Tradition 5, as I understand it, is that AA does its best job of helping people when it sticks to its primary purpose-recovery through the 12 Steps. AA does at best a mediocre job when 1) it tries to do things other than sober up alcoholics, and 2) has various ways and brilliant ideas in how to help people get sober.

The history of Tradition 5 is large failures with engaging in other kinds of treatment, such as hospitals and treatment centers. Alongside with not doing a good job in those efforts, those efforts made AA less effective at doing what it does best.

SR is a group engaged in the activity of helping others overcome their problem. It falls short in a lot of ways because it tries to deal with many varied problems, gets sidetracked into all of the secondary problems that go along with addiction, and has as many different ways of achieving sobriety as there are people.

When AA takes a similar approach, the results are similar. When AA sticks to helping alcoholics recover through the 12 Steps, the results are astonishingly good.

quote aabb1st

newby1961

I think it is also important to mention the people who do service within the hospital's & Institutions sometimes that is the first contact people have ever had with AA.
Thanks also for bringing up the fact that sometimes the still suffering alky is an old timer. My closet friend in AA has 44 years and she has had some pretty hard times lately and has taught me a lot about that.
from a person who doesn't have balls but lots of humility

twilli59

The history you referenced fascinates me as well - I really enjoy it - and I appreciated being reminded of it. I just hung up with my sponsor and we discussed our home group meeting last night, where several people were just giving their opinions in an open discussion. It got so far from actual recovery principles that it was frustrating me. He reminded me that my best option is to lead by example, stay in the solution when I address a topic, and maybe most important of all - display the principles of the steps toward those in the room who I don't relate to or who I may tend to judge.

WakeUp

I don't even go to the alcoholism section here and give opinions on which withdrawal drug is best, or is Antabuse a good idea, ect. I may be an alcoholic, but that doesn't make me an expert in alcoholism. My job as an AA is to carry the message of recovery offered by AA. That's it.

If everybody think these little Traditions threads are good, I'll post one a day until we reach all twelve.

Tosh

Thanks, WakeUp, I've enjoyed reading through them. I'll look forward to the others.

Pinkcuda

Thanks for bringing the traditions up. All to often traditions are swept under the rug. Sure. We read the Traditions at meetings yet seldom are they adhered to. I can imagine no group follows traditions 100% and if they tried somehow I think it's impossible. That's no call to disregard them however. From what I've found the people that do the best in AA are tradition fundamentalists. Some people even hold traditions with higher regard than they do the steps themselves. Traditions are the glue that holds AA together and Tradition one states it best.

That about says it all when it comes to the importance of the traditions. Had we not had them we would probably gone the way of the Washingtonians.

So. Let me toss a small matter of discussion into Tradition 5 just for the hell of it. Tradition 5 states that we have a "Primary Purpose". Would that also allow for the possibility that AA Groups may or may not have a "Secondary Purpose"? If so, what would our Secondary Purpose be? According to Bill we don't have a secondary purpose at all. Bill refers to our reason for being as our "Sole" purpose. Our "Only" purpose. When Bill wrote "Problems Other Than Alcohol" in 1958, he made things real clear. Like mud.
So! The plot thickens. Sobriety is defined as freedom from alcohol by way of the practice and teaching of the twelve steps. This tells me that the sole purpose of an AA Group is to carry the message that we're here to practice and teach the 12 steps. Only! So we don't have a secondary purpose. Then. The standard disclaimer of "It's" message gets tossed out the window. So Tradition 3 states that any 2-3 "Alcoholics" gathered for "Sobriety" may call themselves an AA group. Meaning!!!!,, Any 2-3 alcoholics that are gathered for the sole purpose of the practice and teaching of the twelve steps may then, and only then, call themselves an AA "Group". So "It's" message should be one of the steps. If they're not practicing and teaching the twelve steps as a group then they're not an AA group at all.
That in itself puts tradition Nazis in the minority.

Tommyh

the best any of us can do is live in the spirit of the traditions
I heard that no one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherance to these principles and I would add steps


still yet,while we may sometimes wander off some,we are still the best in the world at sobering up alcoholics

despite the many flaws the nazis see

newby1961

I think that is an awesome idea I would love to maybe start at the beginning and go through all 12, then after that maybe the Concepts as I don't know much about those? Thanks for your service WakeUp!

utopia

thankyou so much, i was starving for some aa and not some mixed 12 step shenanigans because its not ismple enough fo rme, because i really beleive this big book and this aa is what i need. thankyou for keeping it simple and not shaming me for wanting what bill gave to dr bob!

murrill

An old thread resurrected, I see. I am glad for this: I like to discuss the Traditions, but I think they are too often over looked. It has been said that the Steps are about living with ourselves, and the Traditions are about living with others.
In the beginning I read the Traditions as rules and regulations. It was a long while before I came to understand them as spiritual tenets. I understand Tradition Five as an admonishment to stick with what we know, but it also serves to remind that we keep what we have by giving it away.
The simple act of sharing ESH has had a profound impact on me: As I verbalize my shame it dissipates; when I tell my story I am in awe of the miracle. When a resistant newcomer challenges me, I am forced to examine my truth. When I engage with other alcoholics I process and ponder and consider other points of view.
Sharing the message allows me to reap benefits beyond the obvious: It is more than duty. It is a gift, both given and received.

tomsteve

Each group has one primary purpose.

I am responsible when anyone anywhere reaches out for help i want the hand of AA to be there.
So, I saw a car with a flat tire on the side of the expressway. Pulled up and said," need a hand with that flat?"
" sure I could use a hand."
" are you an alcoholic?"
"no"
" sorry, can't help ya then."

I think I have an obligation when anyone anywhere reaches out for help alcoholic or not.

dsmaxis10

In my area AA over ran by drug addicts I can't identify with them.

murrill

I think that as a group our primary purpose is to carry the message. As individuals who become contributing members of society I believe that, as we practice the principles of the program in all our affairs we become helpful and generous to people we encounter--not only alcoholics.