Boleo

Duplicate

BackToSquareOne

If you take an ego filled, hard headed, self centered person and introduce them to AA the first reaction you're going to get is "I'm not going to be led around like a little kid and told what to do". Is that type of person just not a fit for AA or is there a way to introduce the program to such a person?

Boleo

IMO it is equally as prejudice for "D" students to try and drag everyone else down to their level as it is for "A" students to try and drag everyone else up to their level.

Some people have the savvy to handle enigmatic concepts and others don't.
"Different strokes for different folks".

Mark75

Introduction to AA on SR is probably not the best way.... LOL

I would suggest that one read the big book, or at least the doctor's opinion and the first few chapters.... Then sit down with one who has done the steps.

susanlauren

Mark,
We are restored to sanity at the tenth step. God gave us brains to use. I say "think away" as long as: we ask God to direct our thinking so that it is free of wrong motives and we ask for God's guidance and direction in our lives and activities.
Susan

susanlauren

I have never heard anyone in AA try to discourage someone from pursuing higher education. If anything, it is the exact opposite. AA folks routinely encourage others to pursue their goals and dreams of a college education.

Slogans and sayings in AA appear to have taken on a life of their own. My reading of the Big Book finds no such clever and simplistic sayings. The program of AA is the twelve steps as described in detail in the first 164 pages of the Big Book (the AA text).

As for ego-filled, hard-headed, self-centered people: my experience is that untreated alcoholism is the best advocate for the AA program. When I hurt badly enough and became desperate enough, I suddenly became entirely open-minded and willing.
Susan

Boleo

There are thousands of people trying to "prep" this type of person so that they will eventually be willing to listen at AA meetings. They are known as;

Police officers
Ambulance drivers
Judges
Doctors
Jail keepers
Nurses
Parole officers
Bail bondsmen
et cetera...

BackToSquareOne

What I see as a major roadblock is that by the time a person enters the AA rooms their entire belief system, the core of who they are is for the most part set. Now if you ask too many questions and pick the program apart (as many do), it will be an uphill battle because you're fighting it every step of the way.

A person at the end of their rope is an entirely different story, they will go to any length to be freed from their demons. Could that be why AA is most successful with that group?

Soberpotamus

Quite possible, and from my experience with AA... Sounds likely to be the case.

digderidoo

I'll work MY program of AA, rather than anyone else's.

Paul

susanlauren

The AA program is a set of spiritual principles. Understanding and change happen in the heart and the soul as a result of taking certain well-defined actions. In my opinion, AA makes little sense if viewed from an intellectual point of view. I am not going to understand AA's spiritual practices with my mind. I can ask all the questions I want but how and why it works eludes me. (And if the exact, precise, specific, clear-cut directions are followed, tbese spiritual principles will work.) Believe me, I've tried to figure it out. I've finally thrown up my hands and said, "I don't know." It doesn't matter if I understand. What matters is if I take the actions necessary and apply the principles to my life. I do not have to understand the hows and whys of electricity to benefit from all the good things it brings to my daily life. Susan

Mark75

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....

I found myself reading some of the posts that came up along the way and thinking about them, possible responses, etc... then I realized that I was right back into that intellectualizing head space again.

Getting back on track, ahem, LOL, reminding myself more than anyone in particular....

I was talking with a woman after the meeting last Thursday, strong AA, 28 years, cool lady.... she rattles a lot of newbs, well I know she did me almost three years ago, LOL... I had lead that meeting and she brought up the intellectualizing.... which was kind of amazing, and well, telling... I had already been thinking about that whole intellectualizing thing, already planning to start this thread... I asked her the antidote...

She said love.

Hmm.

This is why I like to talk with people who have really worked the program, live and in person... someone who listens to you... and then leaves you with something new to consider. She does this, I am sure, not out of any desire to be judgmental or exclusive... I think she does this, out of, well, love.

So there you go.

miamifella

Susanlauren--

I am glad that what I described is not universal, but frequently in meetings I heard college described as an obstacle to recovery and people talking about sponsors recommending that they not go to school. When higher education was ever spoken of in a meeting it was derisively.

I always thought that this is why you do not find professionals much in the program. I knew they had as many alcoholics and addicts as any other group, but with some exceptions they seem to avoid meetings. I thought it was because if you keep hearing that education prevents recovery, why would someone with an advanced degree bother coming?

keithj

Jennie, AA has nothing against someone getting sober in some other way. If you can get sober without AA, more power to ya, and that's great, no worries. Choose whatever plan you want and go for it.

The panties twisted thing is when someone tries to misrepresent AA as this 'find your own way, do what you want, let's stay lost in the wilderness together as we ignore the solution in the BB and encourage others to do the same.'

AA has a program of recovery. It's the 12 Steps. Anything other than that is not AA. It might be fine and great and wonderful, but it's not AA. On this particular forum, we try to stay focused on the 12 Step solution, without having any opinion on other solutions.

BackToSquareOne

So then the "take what you want and leave the rest" approach is not "real AA", but if it works for you what does it matter? I guess it doesn't.

Mark75

My own perspective to that whole "Take what you want and leave the rest" is two fold... I may not always want what I need... and... I may not know what I really need...

But more importantly, how does anyone know what the newcomer needs and doesn't need... The program needs to be there, complete and intact, for anyone who is willing.

But, back to the OP

It was Dr. Bob, a professional, who helped found AA... Lot's of education, and I would assume intelligent,... Wasn't it he who said "Keep it simple"?... Bill W. was obviously not lacking in the intellect department either, an investment banker... I often wonder what would have happened had there not been the great depression..

keithj

It matters only with regard to keeping the AA solution available to those who need it. When I walked into AA for the first time, I heard a bunch of nonsense that contradicted the program of AA. Being new, I took that nonsense as gospel in AA. I thought I could keep my ego intact, not surrender, and work the Steps that felt comfortable. I thought I could stay sober by going to meetings and making coffee. Turns out, I couldn't. I had no idea what alcoholism was as described in the BB.

With that experience, 'take what you want and leave the rest' is great advice. It applies to much of what is shared in the rooms. Many people in the rooms of AA share their opinion instead of their experience with AA's solution. It would have been great if I had been able to discern the difference.

Soberpotamus

I almost didn't respond with this, but here goes...

I've read the "Big Book" from front to back. It sits on one of my bookshelves with all the rest of my books. I've probably accumulated 5-6 years worth of time soaking up AA's principles, slogans, ideas, philosophies, etc from having been taken there by my mother when I was a child. I also went to one meeting on my own when I was around the age of 25.

I'm not ignorant of AA.

Mark75

That post was a response to BacktoSquareOne's post... not meant at anyone in particular.

DayTrader

Hey Mark... neat topic. It's one I've done what I think is a fair amount or work on - trying to recognize it, trying to figure out why I do it, trying to see the good and bad in it, looking for where it harms me (or others), and so forth.

At least where I am now, what I see is that my intellectualizing is really just an "old tool" of mine - a tool I use to play God. For ME, I tend to want to "know" or understand everything. If I can get to that place, nobody will have one over on me and I'll be, in some small way, slightly better than them. Sure, I'll have don't more studying (or whatever) and I might know a bit more......but I do that so I can ultimately try to control life and the ppl in it. That's, more often than not, my devious behind-the-scenes plan. --> and the spookiest thing of all..... I didn't even know I was doing it. It had become sooooooo "natural" to me I just assumed that's who I was.

My past experience, to a degree, validated that line of thinking (that intellectualizing everything to the Nth degree was good...). In many areas of life, knowledge IS power. So, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have. Boy oh boy, do I love it when I'm discussing a problem with a group (let's say it's with co-workers) and three of them throw theories out and I can say, "Ya know, I considered that and here's where what you said is right on......but here's where it's not......so ultimately I had to reject that thought and move on." Secretly, in the back of my head, I'm "proving" how I'm so much more advanced, smarter, a deeper thinker, or just powerful than everyone around me.

I was totally asleep to the whole process....even while doing it. It wasn't until I heard a Bob Darrall talk where he told a story about having a sponsee do his resentment list not on ppl he was MAD at but on ppl he felt "smugly superior" to. Hmmm, that one kinda gave me chills.......cuz I really felt (and sometimes still feel) smugly superior to just about every single person I've ever met.

Long story short, all that "thinking" was so I'd never have to ask for help, so I could be in control, and so everyone around me would know now only to never "mess" with me but so they'd also know to come to ME if they want the REAL answers.

Embarrassing stuff......yanno? But.....that's me! In alllllll my glory.