BackToSquareOne

Do you believe that things happen for a reason and how do the 12 steps and spirituality fit into your answer.

Hollyanne

BTSO,
I am a firm believer now in the concept of "letting go" and doing the "next right thing".
Do that and everything will fall into place. (sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, as in "the promises"). For me, it has been bordering on ridiculous, how things are working out.
I haven't started on my step 4 yet and must do so. Doing them in order is the way to go, but no harm scanning ahead and following the ones you can right now. Working toward spirituality and apologizing for wrong-doing and practicing the principles in all our affairs...
I am new to the AA program, not to AA itself. It is SO different than just attending meetings and staying sober. I am no expert on 12 steps and will be following this thread. Have a lovely weekend.

Music

When I first got sober and asked my sponsor a question like yours, he'd ask me two things. 1)Why am I looking for an excuse to not conform to AA and 2)If you find an answer, what difference will it make so why waste time. Get to work.

The 12 steps and spirituality ARE the answer. Accept that and move on.

findingout

I believe right action and right thinking will produce right results. The 12 steps are a perfect example of right action and right thinking leading to a right result - a spiritual awakening.

BackToSquareOne

Music, I brought that up because I was listening to a bunch of the XA speaker talks last night and one was talking about a spiritual state of consciousness and mans spiritual thirst for wholeness. The idea being that we need to get rid of our self centered perception of reality and replace it with a conscious contact with a higher power.

Part of the talk was about the concept that most of our problems were caused by a seperation from our higher power and our refusal to accept the fact that all things happen for a reason. The part about all things happening for a reason is where I always get lost, if we apply that to the good then don't we also have to apply it to the bad stuff?

24hrsAday

well said findingout!

Music

Absolutely! If I choose to believe in a higher power, at some point I have to concede that there is a lower power. I believe God is good and either permits or creates good things. I believe evil, call it Satan or the devil causes or permits bad things to happen. My job is to accept what has happened,give credit where credit is due and move on. The Big Book talks about our problems being a result of my actions. When I separate myself from God, I build a stronger relationship with Satan. Working the steps helps me to rebuild my relationship with God.

DayTrader

Ahhhh.... THAT one again!

Good one Music. I just reminded one of my sponsees of that very statement yesterday. It's interesting because that very answer was what I came to with sooooooo many of the hundreds of pressing questions I had early in recovery.

I remember being stumped......or just caught up in trying to figure out WHY I was an alkie. As in, when did I cross the line, could I have stopped the progression, where did I go wrong, why did I go wrong, why did God let it happen, why me and not others (especially other drinking buddies who drank as much as I did but seemed to be able to slow down and/or moderate) and so on. I spent many weeks.....months actually, stuck in a rut as I pondered these things.

Some I was able to figure out and others I wasn't. At the end though, it occurred to me that whether I had my answer or not it had little to NO impact on the current facts of my life: I AM an alkie, I NEED to recover, I NEED help, and I HAVE to do the work.

I heard a speaker say something that blew up a big chunk of my world: It's not the "not knowing of the answers" that's hurting you.......it's the BELIEVING that you need to know that's hurting."

I guess.......much like drinking.......I had to run my intense desire to "know" into the ground. I had to wear it out, start to hurt over it, and go back into feeling miserable over it...........before I was willing to let it go and just move forward with the next indicated things even though I didn't have all my answers.

BackToSquareOne

Music, I was brought up in the Catholic faith and 12 years of Catholic schools so God and the Devil are nothing new to me. I do think that quitting drinking is not enough and without changing our self centered perception of reality we're just not drinking but just as screwed up as we were before. There is most definately a spiritual aspect to all of this that takes a lot of work.

Our Priests and Nuns also always used the "Everything happens for a reason" idea but their answer always was that it was Gods Will when someone died or other bad things happened. I always wondered if a tornado rips through a town and destroys it, who did that God or the Devil or does **** just happen?

Mark75

Good stuff DayTrader... I can relate. In my own experience, I realized that it marked the beginning of.... Faith.

BackToSquareOne

DayTrader I think there is no real answer to that question, I hear people say it so often but other than faith or belief there is no good explanation.

Music

Yup!! And my sponsor would answer, "why not you?" God did step in through others who told you, "you drink too much!" Did I listen....Nope!! That's what I mean. I find an answer to some questions but what difference does it make. Has no bearing on the outcome.

SquareOne....I just became a Catholic in 2007. AA took me there. I like the structure and like AA, I have 10 Commandments to live by. I feel closer to my God today than ever before and He's not a god of my understanding, He's the only God. He's the God of my belief and acceptance.

farmer

The spirituality in the 12 Steps speak out to all but especially to me as a new Catholic. Father Corapi led me to the Rosary and the Rosary led me to the church and the church led me to AA. That is how it worked for me and I see it could work for other people every which way. My religion and faith are a great tool in my sobriety and fit well into AA. AA fits well with my faith and religion.

Steps one, two and three fit well with religious teaching that was so hard for me to really follow with my addictive brain. I tried but it was incomplete. Alcohol kept me from being the person I was created to be and that kept me from being the spiritual person I am. It really messed it all up.

I still have addictive brain behavior and as a new AA follower it will take time to alter to my behavior to what I truly can be. It will always be a work in progress.

Music

Well farmer, it happened the same for me but in reverse. AA led me to my second sponsor who took me into my first Catholic church in 1981. I asked him then what I needed to do to become catholic and he said stay sover and take it easy. Only took abou 26 years. Ya can't rush into these things ya know??

Boleo

Having had a spiritual awakening as the RESULT of these steps. I believe that the steps lead me to "The Principle of Favorability:

What is the concept of "favorability" in Zen Buddhism? | Answerbag

My sobriety is a byproduct of staying spiritually fit. In fact I would go so far as to say "Not Drinkin" has nothing to do with why I am sober today".

Boleo

That sounds like my first 3 sponsors. I not only fired them but called them lazy-bums teaching others how to be lazy-bums. AA fails to help 95% of it's members because anyone having "brains to use" never gets to use them.
Thank God I finally found a sponsor who believes in the 11th step promises described on page 86:

"On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.
In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while."

susanlauren

One of the people and books that really helped me in my journey was Rabbi Harold Kushner, When Bad Things Happen to Good People. BacktoSquareOne, I would encourage you to check the book out from your local library or buy it on-line (can't be that expensive, it's paperback). IMHO, it is a must-read. It will answer your questions.

Boleo, the passage you quoted is from the directions on the 11th step. I am going to feel a whole lot more confident about "employing my mental faculties with assurance" after I finish taking steps 1 through 9. I am presently on step 8. Until then, I have resigned from the debating society and I am just following directions. I need to clean up my past before I will place too much stock in the "brains God gave me to use."

DayTrader, I like what you said: " At the end though, it occurred to me that whether I had my answer or not it had little to NO impact on the current facts of my life: I AM an alkie, I NEED to recover, I NEED help, and I HAVE to do the work." And "It's not the "not knowing of the answers" that's hurting you.......it's the BELIEVING that you need to know that's hurting."

I am someone who loves to think and to question. There is nothing wrong with that, but my thinking and questioning is a distraction to taking action. It doesn't matter if I understand the fundamental principles behind electricity in order to make use of it in my day-to-day life. The same thing applies to the twelve steps.
Susan

BackToSquareOne

Thanks Susan, Amazon has that book for 3.99. He seems to believe that there's a place for randomness and happenstance and that many things that happen God has nothing to do with. Looks interesting, just ordered it.

Sugah

Yes, I believe things happen for a reason, and yes, I believe even "bad" things--as I might define them--happen for a reason. I could give half a dozen examples of these so-called "bad" things that I later added to my gratitude list. The 12 steps help me to see when I've brought these "bad" things on myself -- as well as see when I'm the recipient of grace (when good things happen, no thanks to me). The spirituality I come into as a result of the steps helps me to accept that maybe I get to see the reasons, and maybe I don't. Either way, I'm able to inventory myself and make sure I'm not mucking up a harmony I believe exists. It also helps me keep my eyes (and mind/heart) open to recognize opportunities that in my defect-riddled state, I might miss.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Music

Boleo, it's not uncommon for newcomers to think they know more than they actually know. I refer you to what Susan said. It's best to think with a dry brain, rather than a wet one. You might have fired perfectly good sponsors.