Do you need a sponsor in AA?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 541
Do you need a sponsor in AA?
This discussion was going on in another thread and I wanted to give it one of its own.
In How It Works, no mention is made of a sponsor.
However, it is fairly common orthodoxy in AA to do the steps with a sponsor.
It's one of those things in AA that has evolved over time.
Some of the evolutions in AA have been devolutions. Not this one.
In How It Works, no mention is made of a sponsor.
However, it is fairly common orthodoxy in AA to do the steps with a sponsor.
It's one of those things in AA that has evolved over time.
Some of the evolutions in AA have been devolutions. Not this one.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Some things in the Big Book aren't really spelled right out but are hinted at just the same. We know Bill and Bob sponsored each other, mainly because there was no one else around at the time. Ebby comes into the picture and things kind of take off. Step 3 in the Big Book says this step should probably be taken with another understanding person. I understand the need for questioning things but does everything have to be spelled out in the Big Book. Seems to me that if certain practices have been around for 70 some odd years, there's probably a reason they've sustained all the scrutiny by hard headed drunks like me. Bottom line is at some point I had to make a decision whether to continue questioning everything or get going with the business of getting sober and staying that way. Again, I had to surrender to a power greater than myself....namely AA and just settle down and stop fighting everything and everybody. Simpler that way....and happier too!!
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
My experience....
In D.C. . I asked 2 women to sponsor me got turned down
flat. I was crushed. I later discovered they only sponsored
other lesbians....how was I to know that?
I easily do 1-3 ...got settled into 4.
I daily attend AA...a weeekly BB Study group and a 4th
Step workshop. A work shop member agrees to do Step 5
with me.
I stop and started on Step 4 useing various materials that I
now know were from treatment centers. No releif comes.
Finally I sit down..say a prayer...get busy and do the 4th from the
BB...call the woman...we do a 5th the next day.
Viola! I was on my way to true recovery.
3 years later..still no formal sponsor ..I finished my Steps
with various members from my new home group in Florida
Personally....I think we make too much of individual sponsorship
less of God and the awesome members willing to help without a title.
In D.C. . I asked 2 women to sponsor me got turned down
flat. I was crushed. I later discovered they only sponsored
other lesbians....how was I to know that?
I easily do 1-3 ...got settled into 4.
I daily attend AA...a weeekly BB Study group and a 4th
Step workshop. A work shop member agrees to do Step 5
with me.
I stop and started on Step 4 useing various materials that I
now know were from treatment centers. No releif comes.
Finally I sit down..say a prayer...get busy and do the 4th from the
BB...call the woman...we do a 5th the next day.
Viola! I was on my way to true recovery.
3 years later..still no formal sponsor ..I finished my Steps
with various members from my new home group in Florida
Personally....I think we make too much of individual sponsorship
less of God and the awesome members willing to help without a title.
Ethanol Intolerant
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 665
You need someone to call BS on your delusional thinking. A sponsor is a mirror that is well suited to the task. Lots of people get sober without a sponsor or the AA program, however for me, I firmly believe my chances of success are greatly increased by working the steps with a sponsor.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by CarolD 
In D.C. . I asked 2 women to sponsor me got turned down flat. I was crushed. I later discovered they only sponsored other lesbians....how was I to know that?
I suppose it is their preference, but it is very strange that they would turn you down for that reason.
Originally Posted by CarolD
Personally....I think we make too much of individual sponsorship
less of God and the awesome members willing to help without a title.
less of God and the awesome members willing to help without a title.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by tomvlll
This discussion was going on in another thread and I wanted to give it one of its own.
In How It Works, no mention is made of a sponsor.
However, it is fairly common orthodoxy in AA to do the steps with a sponsor.
It's one of those things in AA that has evolved over time.
Some of the evolutions in AA have been devolutions. Not this one.
In How It Works, no mention is made of a sponsor.
However, it is fairly common orthodoxy in AA to do the steps with a sponsor.
It's one of those things in AA that has evolved over time.
Some of the evolutions in AA have been devolutions. Not this one.
I was not saying that sponsorship is bad, or that some, or even most people, would not benefit from having a sponsor to work with.
I was responding to FrothyJay's suggestion that the "12x12" does not explain the steps properly. When I asked him what literature does explain them properly, he said the Big Book - which I concurred with - but he also stipulated that reading the book is not enough, and that you need a sponsor.
While often advised, I don't believe that a sponsor is absolutely necessary. The only time one would need another person is for Step 5, and that person need not even be a member of the Fellowship. If someone would be more comfortable doing this with a Priest, for example, this would suffice.
I don't have a source, but I seem to recall Bill Wilson commenting on people who read the Big Book, followed the directions, and where able to recover. Is this not part of the reason they wrote the book, including the personal stories?
Furthermore, it is also possible to do 12th Step work without sponsoring others. Many groups do service work going to prisons and giving away literature, and possibly reading it to those who cannot, for example, which one could participate in.
This would qualify as "spreading the message" without officially sponsoring anyone.
In the modern age, there are also other ways of doing this. For example, it is easy to view the maintenance of this 12-Step forum right here as a means of spreading the message.
Whoever maintains it, is, in fact, doing 12th Step work.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by Mark75
It is a "we" program... Without others I would have not understood much of what I've read in the Big Book.
Originally Posted by recycle
You need someone to call BS on your delusional thinking. A sponsor is a mirror that is well suited to the task. Lots of people get sober without a sponsor or the AA program, however for me, I firmly believe my chances of success are greatly increased by working the steps with a sponsor.
I quote here excerpts of an article by Dr. Bob, in which he addresses both the simplicity of the program, the ability of anyone to follow it, and the dangers of what he terms "sponsor-worship."
The Fundamentals--In Retrospect
September 1948
....As finally expressed and offered, they [the Steps] are simple in language, plain in meaning. They are also workable by any person having a sincere desire to obtain and keep sobriety. The results are the proof. Their simplicity and workability are such that no special interpretations, certainly no reservations, have ever been necessary. And it has become Increasingly clear that the degree of harmonious living which we achieve is in direct ratio to our earnest attempt to follow them literally under Divine guidance to the best of our ability.
YET, withal, there are no "shibboleths" in A.A. We are not bound by the thongs of theological doctrine. None of us may be excommunicated and cast into outer darkness. For we are many minds in our organization and an A.A. decalogue in the language of "Thou shall not" would gall us indeed.
Look at our 12 Points of A.A. Tradition. No random expressions these, based on just casual observation. On the contrary, they represent the sum of our experience as individuals, as groups within A.A. and similarly with our fellows and other organizations in the great fellowship of humanity under God throughout the world. They are entirely suggestive, yet the spirit in which they have been conceived merits their serious, prayerful consideration as the guidepost of A.A. policy for the individual, the group and our various committees, local and national.
We have found it wise policy, too, to hold to no glorification of the individual. Obviously, that is sound. Most of us will concede that when it came to the personal showdown of admitting our failures and deciding to surrender our will and our lives to Almighty God, as we understood Him, we still had some sneaking ideas of personal justification and excuse. We had to discard them but the ego of the alcoholic dies a hard death. Many of us because of activity have received praise not only from our fellow A.A.s but from the world at large. We would be ungrateful indeed to be boorish when that happens yet it is so easy for us to become, privately perhaps, just a little vain about It all. Yet, fitting and wearing halos is not for us.
WE'VE all seen the new member who stays sober for a time, largely through sponsor-worship. Then maybe the sponsor gets drunk and you know what usually happens. Left without a human prop, the new member gets drunk too. He has been glorifying an individual instead of following the Program.
Certainly we need leaders but we must regard them as the human agents of the Higher Power and not with undue adulation as individuals. The 4th and 10th Steps can not be too strongly emphasized here--"Make a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. . .continue to make personal inventory. . .promptly admit it when we are wrong." There is your perfect antidote for halo-poisoning...
.... we have no V.I.P.'s nor have we need of any. Our organization needs no title-holders nor grandiose buildings. That is by design. Experience has taught us that simplicity is basic in preservation of our personal sobriety and helping those in need.
...
-- Dr. Bob, Akron, Ohio
September 1948
....As finally expressed and offered, they [the Steps] are simple in language, plain in meaning. They are also workable by any person having a sincere desire to obtain and keep sobriety. The results are the proof. Their simplicity and workability are such that no special interpretations, certainly no reservations, have ever been necessary. And it has become Increasingly clear that the degree of harmonious living which we achieve is in direct ratio to our earnest attempt to follow them literally under Divine guidance to the best of our ability.
YET, withal, there are no "shibboleths" in A.A. We are not bound by the thongs of theological doctrine. None of us may be excommunicated and cast into outer darkness. For we are many minds in our organization and an A.A. decalogue in the language of "Thou shall not" would gall us indeed.
Look at our 12 Points of A.A. Tradition. No random expressions these, based on just casual observation. On the contrary, they represent the sum of our experience as individuals, as groups within A.A. and similarly with our fellows and other organizations in the great fellowship of humanity under God throughout the world. They are entirely suggestive, yet the spirit in which they have been conceived merits their serious, prayerful consideration as the guidepost of A.A. policy for the individual, the group and our various committees, local and national.
We have found it wise policy, too, to hold to no glorification of the individual. Obviously, that is sound. Most of us will concede that when it came to the personal showdown of admitting our failures and deciding to surrender our will and our lives to Almighty God, as we understood Him, we still had some sneaking ideas of personal justification and excuse. We had to discard them but the ego of the alcoholic dies a hard death. Many of us because of activity have received praise not only from our fellow A.A.s but from the world at large. We would be ungrateful indeed to be boorish when that happens yet it is so easy for us to become, privately perhaps, just a little vain about It all. Yet, fitting and wearing halos is not for us.
WE'VE all seen the new member who stays sober for a time, largely through sponsor-worship. Then maybe the sponsor gets drunk and you know what usually happens. Left without a human prop, the new member gets drunk too. He has been glorifying an individual instead of following the Program.
Certainly we need leaders but we must regard them as the human agents of the Higher Power and not with undue adulation as individuals. The 4th and 10th Steps can not be too strongly emphasized here--"Make a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. . .continue to make personal inventory. . .promptly admit it when we are wrong." There is your perfect antidote for halo-poisoning...
.... we have no V.I.P.'s nor have we need of any. Our organization needs no title-holders nor grandiose buildings. That is by design. Experience has taught us that simplicity is basic in preservation of our personal sobriety and helping those in need.
...
-- Dr. Bob, Akron, Ohio
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I am a reasonably intelligent guy, I read a lot, sometimes pretty technical stuff too... but I just had a mental block in step 4... and it took a lot of discussion with others to finally "get it"... if anything the writing gets too simple, or I try to make it too complicated.... and his perspective is from one who has recovered... so, I didn't get some of it... at first.
But that's my own experience. Yours was different... that's cool.
But that's my own experience. Yours was different... that's cool.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Frankly, I believe a bad sponsor is worse than no sponsor at all. Many people in AA are power driven egomaniacs with sobriety. Personally, I don't want what they have. There are people who don't drink and then there are people who are progressing due to working the program.
I know many members of my home group who never knew about sponsorship, they just worked the program with the help of "friends". And they have done well. I also know people who put thier life decisions in the hands of egomaniacs, some are sober and some are not, but none of them have really found the solution.
If you can find good sponsorship...hats off to you! It can be a great help. But sometimes, no sponsorship is better than lousy ego-driven sponsorship.
Just my take.
I know many members of my home group who never knew about sponsorship, they just worked the program with the help of "friends". And they have done well. I also know people who put thier life decisions in the hands of egomaniacs, some are sober and some are not, but none of them have really found the solution.
If you can find good sponsorship...hats off to you! It can be a great help. But sometimes, no sponsorship is better than lousy ego-driven sponsorship.
Just my take.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the high desert
Posts: 887
Originally Posted by ananda
Many people in AA are power driven egomaniacs with sobriety. Personally, I don't want what they have.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 225
12 and 12 is pretty specific on sponsorship; I have a personality of feeling unique from other people; sponsorship being another thing that turned me off.. however, I have never put together more than a year and a half of sobriety; mostly because of the disease of isolation; I have never had any more than a temporary sponsor; whatever that is; but I am tired of relapsing and am now willing to get over my views of what a sponsor should look and act like and just pick one. I am grateful for this topic today; I am also thoroughly convinced that sponsorship is very important.. I know that for me, going just to meetings and living a spiritual life is not enough.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Originally Posted by GettingStronger2
Which is exactly why you should only look for a person to sponsor you who does have what you want!
I think the big book tells us that the real answer is an HP ... not a person we trust in AA. I admire all my home group for their ability to stay sober, but I would never want to live my life based on thier beliefs or feel ok taking the actions they take...its a real delima for those of us who have been around for some time.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by ananda
I think the big book tells us that the real answer is an HP ... not a person we trust in AA.
From Chapter 7 of "Alcoholics Anonymous" (First Edition):
"Some of us have taken very hard knocks to learn this truth: Job or no job — wife or no wife — we simply do not stop drinking so long as we place dependence upon other people ahead of dependence on God. Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house."
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: the high desert
Posts: 887
Originally Posted by ananda
ah! but here is the crunch...what do you do if you are not seeing sober people with anything you want other than sobriety....it's ok for a start, but not over the long haul.
I think the big book tells us that the real answer is an HP ... not a person we trust in AA. I admire all my home group for their ability to stay sober, but I would never want to live my life based on thier beliefs or feel ok taking the actions they take...its a real delima for those of us who have been around for some time.
I think the big book tells us that the real answer is an HP ... not a person we trust in AA. I admire all my home group for their ability to stay sober, but I would never want to live my life based on thier beliefs or feel ok taking the actions they take...its a real delima for those of us who have been around for some time.
I agree that God is the the real answer, and we all need God to stay sober. I do not look to my sponsor to teach me her beliefs or ideals. I look to her to help guide me through the program and the steps. If I disagree with her or have questions, I do just that: voice my disagreement or ask my questions.
As with any other thing in life, I believe discussion with others to be incredibly helpful. For old and new to the program, learning never ends.
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
The individual in AA that is my most constant source of wisdom and provides a "mirror" for me to see me as others see me is ironically a gentleman that I have "sponsored" for the past 10 years. I smile when he occasionally refers to me as his sponsor. He along with at least 30 or 40 additional folks are my “close” friends in AA, with countless members from whom I draw strength and hope. These are my fellows in the Fellowship of AA. I do however have a sponsor and the reason is that he heard my 5TH step quite awhile ago, and has knowledge of my inner most secrets and concerns, perhaps he has a slight edge over other friends when I feel the need to address specific matters and issues.
I rarely see my sponsor and almost always in meetings when I do, but much like a parachute, it isn't something I am constantly attached to, but damn good to have when I need him.
I realize that some folks feel no need for what we call a "sponsor" and as only they know their particular situations it is not my place to suggest otherwise. However, as was written earlier there seems to be some benefit to the practice, otherwise short of all of us drinking from the same Kool Aid pitcher, the concept of having a particular confidant seems to have caught on and continues to be what many of us are looking for.
I actually do prefer the term friend and or fellow to sponsor, but semantics are the least of my worries. Heck, I was much fonder of "Heavy Drinker" than alcoholic or drunk.
Jon
I rarely see my sponsor and almost always in meetings when I do, but much like a parachute, it isn't something I am constantly attached to, but damn good to have when I need him.
I realize that some folks feel no need for what we call a "sponsor" and as only they know their particular situations it is not my place to suggest otherwise. However, as was written earlier there seems to be some benefit to the practice, otherwise short of all of us drinking from the same Kool Aid pitcher, the concept of having a particular confidant seems to have caught on and continues to be what many of us are looking for.
I actually do prefer the term friend and or fellow to sponsor, but semantics are the least of my worries. Heck, I was much fonder of "Heavy Drinker" than alcoholic or drunk.
Jon
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Prairie
Posts: 1,417
I was under the impression that AA was more about "Being a Sponsor" as stated in the Big Book even though the word "Sponsor" isn't used. It's about one alcoholic helping another alcoholic. If you don't understand the role a sponsor plays which is to guide you down the path only, you'll be infective as a sponsor yourself. The only way to do this is to follow your own sponsor.
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