A perspective on "We Agnostics" Chapter 4 of the Big Book

[nandm]

I'm not going for this God stuff. How could there possibly be a God when there are so many starving people and wars where everybody says God is on their side. What about those sanctimonious church goers who judge me for my sins and then commit their own. I am not going to accept damnation and hell fire from some old man with a white beard sitting in the clouds. What about all those preachers who talk about heaven and then live like hell?

First, no one is telling us that we have to believe in anything. If we do not care for the conception of God suggested by other people we need not even consider it. Most of us have had our objections to the idea of God. When we look at them in the light of alcoholic destruction we see that they are insignificant and that our prejudices only serve to block us off from the Power we need to recover.

We Agnostics begins by defining alcoholism

If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if, when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic.

and presenting the basic premise of the book, that alcoholism is an illness which only a spiritual experience can conquer

If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.

. Alcoholics are sometimes resistant to accept such a solution so we are presented with alternatives

To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis---not always easy alternatives to face.

. Why our moral codes and firmly held philosophies are not sufficient to overcome alcoholism is explained clearly

But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma.

. Access to a Power greater than ourselves is the solution to our powerlessness and a promise is made to show us exactly how to find this Power

Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be A Power Greater Than Ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power?
Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself, which will solve your problem.

. Our many objections to accepting this solution are addressed.

It is suggested that we lay aside our prejudices and that willingness is all we need to begin to get results. The directions for Step Two are given in the form of a simple question.

Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?

We are cautioned to abandon attitudes that handicap us. All we have to do is acknowledge the existence of this Power and we can begin to use it

As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps.

. This Power is within the reach of everyone. To begin, all we have to do is to set aside our prejudices and take an honest look at the God idea

Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you.

. Sound reasons for believing are enumerated (paragraphs 14 through 30 in "We Agnostics"). The efficacy of self-sufficiency is discussed

Our ideas did not work. But the God idea did.

. A reasonable and practical description of faith is given and our choice is laid before us

When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crisis we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is, or He isn't. What was our choice to be?

We Agnostics have no direct experience accessing a Power greater than ourselves. This chapter masterfully addresses our objections and gives us practical reasons why we should try this way of life. Instructions on how to make a beginning are also provided.

[Tazman53]

Good stuff nandm, I really had no issue with a Power greater then myself, I had real issues with religion though! I spent a great deal of time trying to find it in the BB and finally realized that there was no need for religion in order for me to establish a relationship with my HP. This it turned out was the very reason that the chapter "We Agnostics" was written, an entire chapter dedicated to folks like me!

I have no problem with folks who are religous, if that is for them that is fine, there is no reason for me to share why I feel the way I do, suffice it to say I have always believed in a Power greater the myself, but I have also beleived that for me there is no need for religion. AA has allowed me to find a connection to that Power that just for convinence sake I call God.

My connection with and my reliance upon God is my spirituality, I no longer funtion alone, I no longer exercise my will alone, I us my will to do his will. My will today choses to consult with my HP in all matters and do what he leads me to do.

Do not get me wrong, there are times where my pride or temper allows my will to not seek His will, many times the results of this are not good and I wind up making amends of some sort, but I keep in mind and console myself that it is progress and not perfection!

[FightingIrish]

Two big obstacles I am grateful to have been able to overcome with Step Two (and Three):

1. All that is required is open-mindedness
2. I don't have to define what a power greater than myself is
3. I don't have to cringe when others in the rooms refer to the power that is greater than themselves as "God".

Forgive me, but I haven't yet memorized all the literature...I am under the impression that the term "Higher Power" isn't actually used anywhere that is germaine to the steps. Is this true? I am not trying to be a Mr. Smarty Pants or prove anyone wrong, but I recall observing that when I was first starting to think about the steps.

That helped me a lot.

[FightingIrish]

I just meant that when reading the steps, I kept looking for the term "Higher Power" and remember not finding it. I could be totally wrong as I don't have the books with me, but this is what I recall.

I'm not trying to say anything in particular other than, for me, the term "Higher Power" and "a power greater then ourselves" have two different connotations.

[sugErspun]

Elias -

The Hawkins reference - what book is that from? Power vs Force, one of the most interesting (it can be a bit wordy at times) books I have ever read. I have another of his that I never finished. The whole kineseological benchmarking of truth blew my mind the first time I read it.

However - I have never tried the tests he suggests.

Funny thing you mention him - I was just asking a friend here on SR the other day if he had ever read any David Hawkins..

Tks/
~a

[Tazman53]

Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.

Chapter 3.

Follow the dictates of a Higher Power and you will presently live in a new and wonderful world, no matter what your present circumstances!

Chapter 7

The term Higher Power is only used 2 times in the first 164 pages.

In Chapter 4 it explains:

When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you. At the start, this was all we needed to commence spiritual growth, to effect our first conscious relation with God as we understood Him. Afterward, we found ourselves accepting many things which then seemed entirely out of reach. That was growth, but if we wished to grow we had to begin somewhere. So we used our own conception, however limited it was.

The above clarifies what is meant in the BB when the word God is used, it is our concept of a Power Greater then ourselfs, we each develop or own concept that we understand of a Higher Power, most of us, myself included do call him/her/it God out of an ease of others understanding. I can assure you that your concept does not need to align with mine, having a concept is all it takes to begin the journey.

[miss communicat]

Originally Posted by sugErspun

Elias -

The Hawkins reference - what book is that from? Power vs Force, one of the most interesting (it can be a bit wordy at times) books I have ever read. I have another of his that I never finished. The whole kineseological benchmarking of truth blew my mind the first time I read it.

However - I have never tried the tests he suggests.

Funny thing you mention him - I was just asking a friend here on SR the other day if he had ever read any David Hawkins..

Tks/
~a

Have you read Hawkins' "Truth vs Falsehood"?

It explores, among other things,the vibratory consciousness of Alcoholic Anonymous. I loved it.

[sugErspun]

I haven't Miss C (I sound like a character from Happy Days) - I will probably get it.

He also ranks AA and 12 step programs in Power Vs Force (500 range if memory serves)