I am sorry to hear that this young woman is in such dire straits. I hope that perhaps this will be a turning point for her, but I would not be surprised if it is not. It seems telling to me that her parents have relayed to you her attitude of "I'll get patched up in the hospital and go right back to Rich Guy to continue the Fabulous Life." It would seem that clarity of thinking is not in her wheelhouse yet.

For your sake, I hope you will proceed with caution.

GGJ, Good Morning. I have been reading this thread over several days now, and have been thinking about it, and you, and the responses herein. My response might seem disjointed and rambling, but please follow - I have an awful sinus headache this morning!

I'm going to first cut to the chase - you were sent a gift from God when she left. It may not seem like it now, but it will. Not saying that all A's are going to stay that way the rest of their existence - we have some wonderfully-recovered ones here on this forum - but is that what you REALLY want in your life right now? She and the universe did you a favor in the long run. But right now I understand that it hurts, I'm not downplaying that.

I'm a guy, and an IT guy, and a science-based thinker. Which means what? It means that I too, for a very long time after starting on this forum, wanted the answers to 'why is she doing this', 'any logical person would not do XYZ', etc., etc. I'm still a LONG WAY from acceptance, and trying to be logical keeps me from moving forward every day. But, there is no logic, no reasoning, no mathematical equation or formula that can explain the thoughts and actions of an addict. And it frustrates the hell out of fact-based, logical, reasonable thinkers like you and me, and many others. And it sucks. Just about every one of your posts has some form of the word 'logic' and/or 'reasonable' - and you are just driving yourself nuts trying to put these things into your thinking right now as it relates to her.

Secondly, you DO NOT want to ever have a child with an addict - trust me on that. Parenting is a 24/7/365 day job, and if one parent is not available, then it all falls on you. I can't go out late with friends, I can't go on overnight business trips because my wife passes out almost every night, and is unavailable as a parent. Now, I love my DS, and when/if divorce does happen I'll be a single parent anyway, but I'll be a single parent without an active A in the house. When she traveled earlier this year on business for a week, even though I did everything around the house and took care of DS totally - my stress level dropped tremendously, and my sense of calm and happiness rose exponentially. The whole dynamic of the house was different. I even had a 4 month-old puppy with diarrhea, and I was still more calm. Do you really want your child to find mommy passed out on a toilet, passed out on the kitchen floor after peeing on it? Or talking in circles so badly that the child gets frustrated at HIMSELF because he can't understand mommy? No, you don't want that, ever.

You say you are lonely and alone - but I doubt you really are. You are now lacking the chaos, drama, and everything else that goes along with living with an addict, and the silence is probably deafening. It will be a happy silence, you'll see. You have many opportunities now to reconnect with friends that got pushed to the side because your life was wrapped up in caregiving an addict. You can finish up your PhD with a flourish! (Congratulations on that splendid accomplishment!!) You can make time for YOU now, you really need that.

I read something on SR long ago related to addicts, and if I screw this up, I apologize, but it's something like: "Addicts don't have relationships, they take hostages". You, my friend, have been a hostage for way too long, and you have been given a gift of freedom. Embrace it, rejoice in it, and live it. It probably won;t happen today, tomorrow, or next week, but I promise you it will. I hope every day of my life my AW will just up and leave my and my son to own own peace, but she won't because she knows she has it too good where she is.

Anyway, sorry for the long post - I'm usually not that wordy, but I had to say something. We've had many guys on this forum come and go because they wanted SR to give them concrete, logical answers, and got frustrated when we could not provide that.

Please stick around, there is so much support and experience here, you'll find your way out of the darkness soon enough.

Take care of yourself, and the puppy - he needs you more than ever now.

Blessings,
COD

Joel
As someone who married 'that one' years ago, it ended in very tragic. You are asking logical questions about an illogical person/events. How 2+2 equals 7 will never make sense.
I can't express how lucky you are at the moment. You have a choice without kids, house, hospital bills etc.. You do have a broken heart. It will mend over time. Just know you aren't alone and have compassion for others you meet down the road.
Please take other path. You can still pray for her, just close that door.


Edit:
COD is right on. I was down that same path with two kids, house, passed out wife. She died in the end. Your choice.

AG

That statement could be perceived as this guy was able to do in 2 months what you were unable to do in a year and half – get off the crazy train, left the drama and got himself to healthier ground.

Or and I assume that you are viewing it as he didn’t love her like you did because he left her after only 2 months while you proved your love by tolerating the bad behavior for a year and half.

I do hope this young woman embraces recovery someday and I do hope you come to accept that you are not her path to getting there.

COD and especially other men, thank you for sharing your stories here. Full of wisdom.

So...she is doing exactly what is thought, just on a little quicker time frame. I am willing to bet that she is in a position she cannot physically call right now, but as soon as she can she will be burning up the phone lines.

Tell her that you will talk to her on your terms and only if she is going to be sober, don't you think it's a little late for that? You do not want to be saddled with this woman and her issues. An addict like this is likely going to be addicted to something, forever. It is a future of misery with someone like this.

I am sorry. I don't mean to be blunt or hurtful. However, I caution you to think this is some rock bottom, that does not even exist.

Stay strong friend. Steel yourself to what is coming.

Speaking of what WE think are 'rock bottoms':
My AW drank too much at an after-work work function, has no idea how she got home, did $3500+ damage to her car, had the deputy sheriff at our house at 11:20 at night because her co-workers couldn't get a hold of her (because she was passed out in the kitchen), it got all the way to the VP of her division, she almost lost her job, and........ she continues to drink like nothing happened.

Any 'reasonable' person would have had some sort of awakening, right? Just shows how illogical and unreasonable addiction is.

Again, I say - you have been handed the lottery on a silver platter by her leaving you to live your life. In time you will say, "That ol' COD guy was spot-on!"

I'm sure we could come up with a very long list. Besides dealing with her, the worst was hearing ambulance sirens not long after she left with the kids. Was that for them?

Change your number or block hers and RUN! You will waste years of your life(if she doesn't leave you again sooner) trying to 'fix' her! I've done it twice now. My divorce amped up my drinking. My drinking led me to my most recent exAgf of 10+yrs( then I got sober and ended it)..again..RUN!!

I have to say I'm alarmed at Mom giving her alcohol. She was out of her seizure meds...did it not occur to her mother to call the hospital and have some dispensed there? This sounds like the kind of "doctorin' " Granny Clampett would have done on Beverly Hillbillies.

Mother is toxic, IMO

Joel - how are YOU doing today??

Happy Friday.

COD

i wasnt sober that long and whinin and cryin about the relationships i destroyed and the women that "left me". a whole lot of "if they just would have_____"when i think my sponsor realized babying me wasnt workin and he had to add some depth and weight to the message- get brutally honest.
"tom, ya didnt have relationships. ya took hostages and set ransoms. when the ransom was met ya set a new one. and when it wasnt met ya went on a sefish,self centered pity party bender. you were only thinkin about yourself."
THAT didnt fly without turbulance.
i eventually saw what he meant.
that message had a snowballs chance in hell of gettin through when i was drinking.

The crazy makings of alcoholism and the depth it takes the loved ones to. It sounds like her mother has been dealing with this for so long she has become an expert at things most normal people would not even know or understand like giving alcohol to an alcoholic so they will not seize or go into the DT’s. Much like we can’t make someone stop drinking, we can’t force them to go to a hospital either. And I don’t know of any hospital that would just dispense anti-seizure meds without examining the patient. I think the mother did the best she could under the circumstances.

Yeah, I agree with atalose, on this point. I would give alcohol to an alcoholic in withdrawl (especially with a prior history of seizures), especially if there were no other kinds of meds available to treat the withdrawl symptoms.
It is not uncommon for detox centers to tell patients to get a drink under their belts before they come to the center....because, it decreases the amounts of seizures and other drastic occurances in the hospital lobby and waiting rooms while the patient is getting admitted.....

Hi everyone,

Thank you again for all the great comments and thoughts. OhioDad, thank you for asking how I am. I am doing ok. Since she is back, I have not heard from her, and nor have I attempted to reach out. In light of this, I have been pursuing the same path I was on as though she isn't here. Meaning that I am still doing my individualized things. Including working hard on my Thesis and analysis, working, playing with the dog and walking him a lot, spending time with my new friends, working out, cleaning up the house and making it more homely for me, and still talking frequently with family, my counselor, and my Al Anon group.

I am going to a Halloween party tonight, so that should be uplifting and worth a few good laughs. But, regarding the potential interaction I will have with my Aex, I am going to take plenty of time tomorrow to put my thoughts together, and try to establish exactly what I will say to her, when or if I do talk to her. This is for my own protection and so I don't let emotions take over and lose sight of my wants/needs.

The step father texted me asking if we can briefly talk regarding just letting me know what is going on for the past two days. I said sure, so I will get that call sometime today. In all fairness, the severity of the issue of seizures has me worried for her, and at a minimum, I would just like to know she is ok. Also, I am assuming he will tell me her state of mind, and what the plan is going forward (treatment/no treatment...etc). At this point, it isn't as painful to speak about her, but rather just mind boggling to see what we were only a few months ago, and now she has turned into this. The reality as we all know is that this is a progressive disease, and what she is experiencing is still in the precontemplative state...I'm just surprised she has stayed there for so long.

Bob4x4, I read through almost the entire book last night that you recommended regarding the sociopath next door. Without quickly jumping to conclusions, it is very evident that many people around us (in every day life) lack this developed conscience. I do find the material compelling, and can certainly see why you would recommend it. I do think there is lots of overlap with her behavior and will talk about it with a professional.

My assumption at this stage is that everything she is doing when it comes to her decision making over the last year or so has turned to dust. She was initially one of those people who would be able to turn anything to gold, but with the regression, it appears she can't keep anything together. IF she is contemplating sobriety or pursuing help, I imagine she may actually be seeing the impact around her of her decisions...including how much of it was reliant on the use of alcohol (meaning poor choices made on alcohol). Not thinking straight, and showing all 4 types of "R's" in the precontemplative state.

Lastly, I do agree that giving her alcohol may have been the safest route at that point. I had to cancel our health insurance because of this, so I imagine she is without at the moment. I may have forgot to mention that she was going to see her neurologist yesterday (from what I was told), so maybe this is a first step at her mother attempting to help her first check her health, then try to find a next step towards sobriety. But I would be curious to know if she is drinking right this instant or not. I would assume so since she can't just stop cold turkey.

So, any other good readings anyone may feel is relevant? I have been looking up how to communicate with an active alcoholic to avoid conflict in preparation for talking with her eventually. I have a sneaking feeling I may come home one day, and she may be sitting on my porch. It is very real now that she is back in town...she just doesnt have her car at the moment.

So, please feel free to recommend any other thoughts or ideas, as you can clearly see I am gaining from all of your collective insight. For which I am grateful.

You are not a treatment, let alone a cure.

It’s sounding like her family is inching toward getting you involved again...and they can be oh so persuasive. “You were the only thing that ever really made her happy!” “She really is different this time!” “She was off her meds and drunk, so can’t you forgive her?”

Point is...you’re doing your research and getting educated on codependency. Are they?

You might want to do some planning regarding how you talk to them, as well. They may mean well but dumping her back on you benefits only them.

This is one of those situations in life where enlightened self-interest is the right thing. Get on with your life as you have and enjoy your puppy.

Sending you a hug.

Just my 2 cents here - and this may sound harsh, but I think you are still investing a bunch of time into something that can never be. You state that you're reading up on how to communicate with an active alcoholic. You tried that when you guys were together - we know how that worked out. You can't 'communicate' with an active alcoholic, at all, period. Their minds are clouded, fogged over, mush if you will. You have logic, reason, sensibility - those things are gone from her in the current state.

You're a good guy, you mean well, I understand that, and I understand your intentions. But she doesn't care about that - she cares about one thing: herself and her next fix/drink/whatever. She dropped you quicker than you can blink an eye for some addict out of rehab. He was smart and shipped her away from him. If she does show up, it will be a bunch of smoke-and-mirrors and eyelash-batting and a perceived sense of remorse to get you back and put you right back into the snake pit. Remember my line about them not having relationships, but taking hostages? Yeah, her most likely MO.

Not what you want to hear on a Friday afternoon, and I'm sorry if it came across harshly.

Keep posting, we're glad you're here.

COD

I most certainly agree with both OhioDad and Aries. I may have misrepresented myself. I still have no intentions of running back into anything with her. And the step father wants to keep me informed to protect me, and I do believe him. He has never stated, or acted as though they just want to dump her on me and I deal with it. In fact, he is upset with the mother for her taking her back in, and he is still besides himself with this whole thing. I may have mentioned earlier that he lost a son due to heroin about a year ago, and went through similar paces. He is well aware of the total lack of control one has over the situation, and is quite upset with the mother. He is especially upset with how she treated, and is currently treating everyone. But being married to the mother, he is trying to keep that peace without blowing up their own marriage, so he often would rather not partake in the stupidity, and takes care of his own life.

It's the damnedest thing to love someone and have to literally push them away from you. He and I are both experiencing that. I think the mother on the other hand can't see that, and can't respond accordingly.

I haven't talked to the mom in a while, and don't intend to any time soon. I have nothing against her, it's just not my problem. I understand I need to set boundaries with them as well, but honestly none of the ones I figured I would need to be guarded with have been crossed. Meaning I think the family is actually quite ashamed, embarrassed, and trying to figure out what to do with her. I think this is similar for her. Everything keeps failing at this stage. AND on top of that, you are thrown back to our home state, and are left with no one but mom. I'm sure shes thought of the dog, and me, and that only a few months ago, we were talking about a positive future, and she was in a vastly different place with the alcoholism than she is now. Proof is in the pudding that she makes terrible decisions on alcohol. Life changing decisions, that prove to be worse in the end for her. It is destructiveness at its finest.


I know you are all just being honest, and have very valid points (which I agree with). I just don't have a clue where things stand...let alone what her health is, or what she is thinking. This is why I read up and educate myself. I am just trying to understand the disease the best I can. I know it is subjective, but there are many common traits, and it is in my best interest to understand these as well as the behaviors. I hope you all understand. I don't see it as a time waster.

GgJ - I know that you're focusing a lot of your time and energy on your ex-fiance because you're searching for answers...This situation is crazy making as it is/was for all of us on this forum for our own situations.

If you don't mind, I'd like to distract you away from her for one moment and ask what are you doing to take care of yourself? As in you, not you in relation to her/her situation/her family?

As addicts are addicted to a substance, we need to be careful NOT to be addicted to the addicts in our lives.

When I meant 'time waster' as far as reading up and getting educated, I meant it as saying that you know what alcoholism is and what it can do - you've had ringside seats to the whole circus. And an academic, such as yourself, longs for knowledge, I get that.

I'm not sure anyone really 'understands it' - because it takes logic and reason to understand, something of which the A and the so-called 'disease' is not capable.

Maybe reading up on/analyzing how/why you became so entrenched/entwined with an addict, and how you can avoid those pitfalls in future relationships - might be a better read at this point.

You're a caring and compassionate soul, and those are good traits - if you're not taken hostage, then it works against you, believe me.

I think you are still clouded in your own thinking as well. It's been a wild, emotional, chaotic ride, the aftereffects of all that linger. But as others here have said, maybe less focus on: how she's doing, if/when she's drinking/etc., and more focus on you and the pup would be time 'better spent'. Hope that sounds better.

No one is attacking you here, we've just had more experience. If there is a sinkhole in the road, and 20 people have already fallen in, it's right and proper to warn the oncomers - that's all we are trying to do for you here.

Peace,
COD

I'm trying to figure out just how exactly informing you of your AXF's status is protecting you.

I can definitely see it if she's been physically abusive towards you and her presence threatens your safety. I can certainly see how, in a strange way, it must provide some consolation to you that her misguided affair and her addiction has become evident to so many people.

But if she doesn't present a physical danger, I'm still stuck on the word "protect". The best way to protect yourself from further emotional abuse at this point is, IMHO, to block all further communication.