Alcohol-ISM also ignores all that we (humanity) have learnt and striven for as a species.
:wall:

I disagree, and my friend who past away is a perfect example.

He had high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and diabetes. He researched, and found a soution for it. The atkins diet. He lived it perfectly for 8 years. He researched articles, and used his own life (while he was alive) as an example. His cholesterol was fine, his blood pressure was fine, science, and all man had come up with proved he was doing what was right and worked (for him at least). He was also taking a very well researched regimine of supplements every day, which I believe even included the heart healthy dosage of aspirin. and he was blindsighted. He believed he had power, but in the end... well, he learned differently.

I don't believe we are completely powerless beings, but over some things, things such as life and death... yep. Very little, if any, power with that one. I have lots of power to make decisions to do things in order to keep myself healthy, and I take advantage of that, but the ultimate outcome is out of my control.

And I'll add that I believe one of the biggest problems we face on earth today is the fact that man believes he has much more power than he actually does.

When we talk about powerlessness, I am thinking of my disease.

If I take one drink, I'm am powerless. My addiction will kick in and I will have no control. I will drink myself into a blackout even though my intention may be to have just one. I am powerless over this disease after the first drink.

This^. Well put.

We are ALL powerless over people places things, the environment, our bodies, the future, you name it.

When you really think about it, we are only under the illusion that we have control over much of anything.

You didn't decide where to be born, what race you are, what sex you are, who your family is, what your genetics are, your intelligence, and much of your education, language, religion, culture were all taught to you by people that you didn't pick long before you had any say in the matter.

Even existing on this earth is because of an infinitesimally small chance of creation and you were the ONE sperm out of millions that met the ONE egg. On a planet that just happened to have life out of an entire galaxy that is comprised mostly out of empty space.

The reality of how little we control is mind boggling, and breathtaking to me.

When we can set aside our humungous EGO, we can make peace with the universe.

This is my subtle way of saying, get over yourself.

DB has a philosophical streak, I never would have guessed. :) The mind creates many of the things we think are real.. Time, safety, security, etc, etc, etc....

^^what double barrel said.

I relish in the fact that I am essentially a grain of sand on an infinite beach. Much of life is random. Grasshopper tries to be a leaf on the stream. Ommmmm

That ain't philosophy... That's Existentialism.
:e130:

Existentialism without the angst is a lot like Buddhism. Meditate on non existence. :)

I think I had (and I stress the word had) an illness or disease or whatever you want to call it, but it was part of a bigger disease, illness or issue which was my messed up mind. I don't adhere to AA. I think you can empower yourself again and not have this illness, craving or whatever.

I don't understand you. Existentialism, for me, has no angst. I don't believe in it but why angst. You have no control anyway.

Kate if your mind is messed and this is the bigger problem, illness as you call it how then do you fix a broken mind with a broken mind? Seems like a circular reference in Excel. I am not trying to call you out just genuinely curious as to the logic.

It's a reference to Kierkegaard and his philosophy. He used the word angst a lot.

"People understand me so little that they do not even understand when I complain of being misunderstood."
—Søren Kierkegaard

Interesting, kind of like the mind looking to the mind to solve problems created by the mind. If you go to battle with the mind you'll be at war forever.

I believe I drank a few fancy words out of existence in my brain, but the essence of them is still stored in there somewhere... sometimes its a little strange, I'm not sure if I've learned certain things or deduced them independently. Both, most likely.

When confronted with 'Safety is an illusion...' some will actually argue with you for their various 'reasons'. My wife responds like the cool cucumber she is. She'll just say 'so?'

Attachment 20153

OP's original question has morphed into the question of powerlessness, where we already have a perfectly good thread in the other forum on the same topic.

Somehow, the question of one's powerlessness over a self destructive behaviour is described as our inability to change forces majeure, or acts of God, like major cataclysmic weather events. Or powerlessness over the results of mutating DNA inside our bodies. I don't think these comparisons are apt in the slightest, and are unfair to victims of typhoon haiyan or uterine cancer.

I do believe that we can change harmful behaviours by efforts of will and learning. We can use our brains to change harmful thinking patterns, and then to change the harmful behaviours. Children do this all the time as they grow up, and it is saddening to think that we have somehow lost this ability as adults.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...qYlxTYUxgu2BTZ

Keep on truckin', Mr Natural.

Fresh start post the link to the other OP so we can continue the discussion there. I find the topic fascinating.

The mind does have different states.

If you see a method as urge surfing, then you use the minds ability to look at it self. So even if your emotions and urges are sick, you can chose to identify with the introspection part of the mind and not react on the emotions and urges.

I think in team you can heal the sick part that way.