still stuck
 

well i am in a different place these days, not necessarily better, but different. in order to explain where i am, i need to explain where she is too- to give the full story.

i cannot remember exactly what my update was before so i may be repeating some details. about three weeks ago she moved 10 hours away to stay with a friend while she gets on methadone and works intensive outpatient. we talked a little bit a few times and have texted some. she recently texted that she needs a few weeks to work on herself, that she loves me and just needs some time to herself. i have actually been good giving her that space. a couple days ago i woke to a short text of her saying all is good and she'll talk to me soon.

i am trying to take this time to work on me. there is a lot of residual junk that i need to shed. i became used to having her around, i got used to being part of that life. i am having trouble filling in the space left by her absence. i guess i felt ok knowing she was a around and believing that we'll get through all this and be normal one day. i recall at times i couldn't wait to be free from her, but now i miss her.

i have been going to therapy, but i have also been doing a lot of thinking about myself and past and it can be asserted that i am attracted to someone unavailable etc. it doesn't take away from having feelings for her.

i want to know her sober, and clean, and working through therapy and i am willing to wait but i am also afraid to wait. she can already be checking out. i dont really hear from her, but i dont know if it is really because she is working on herself and should not be focused at all on a relationship, or if its because she has no need for me now or some other thing.

i get asked why her, why her? its not something i have a direct answer for. its just an inexplicable attraction. in can be construed as toxic. i cant confirm or deny that. she could have always been manipulating me. she could be now. i dont know. even though others have shared experiences of toxic people manipulating them, i still have a hard time believing that someone is just that way. or at least that she is that way. i know in a good relationship, the idea of being manipulated shouldn't even come up. i recognize that she has serious issues, but i am all too willing to believe that she is starting to adress them for the first time.

but then i aks myself, if she was serious about being with me at some point would i be hearing from her more now that she is so far away or is that a normal part of recovery. i remind myself that she has many things to address and confront so i should step back and let her do that. but i do not feel ready to let go of her, to believe that it is over. i want to believe in her and in something between us, but i dont want to foolishly sit and wait and pine away. its hard to believe when i have so little reassurance. but it also feels that she is a part of me in a way that others have not been.

i just read a line from kindeyes on another thread that sums up where i am at:

trying to recover from the fallout

((Steve))

I wondered how you were doing ~ glad you are going to therapy - hope it helps you!

she could have always been manipulating me. she could be now. i dont know. even though others have shared experiences of toxic people manipulating them, i still have a hard time believing that someone is just that way. or at least that she is that way. i know in a good relationship, the idea of being manipulated shouldn't even come up.


As i read this, I thought about sharing my e, s, and h ~ please know this is just MINE - not necessarily everyones OK?

My exah and I have been seperated/divorced almost 3 yrs now - I've been remarried for almost a yr. He knows that he wiped me out financially, emotionally and I am beyond done with him. YET, he still continues to every now and then call me, text me or some sort of communication with me - why???? just to see if he can still manipulate me. Just to see if he still has that control.

I think it's a fix to him. It's not so much of a power struggle but of part of his need to feed his self-esteem, to try to stop that internal battle of the disease that tells him how awful his behavior and actions are. That he can justify to himself that "if she still talks to me then I wasn't so bad to her"; or "she forgave me, we can be friends now"; "see she just over reacts - she's fine now"

Of course I have no proof of this ~ just the battles scars and healed wounds of living with an active alcoholic/addict for over 16 yrs and knowing his behaviors and mannerisms. So it's just my thoughts on it . . .

Like I have said before ~ I have no idea if this young lady and you are suppost to be together ~ I just hope that what you are working for will be mutually beneficial for the long run - because BOTH of you deserve it!

PINK HUGS,
Rita

Steve, I am going on 6 months of not hearing from my 'friend'. I know exactly how you feel. His program requires he cut off contact with 'gf's' and not have relationships while there. I grieved. But I was also relieved that he was finally sinking his teeth into an intense program. I love him enough to step back, way back. She is asking the same of you.

She is trying to put distance between you an her because she has so much other stuff to deal with that is in her head. Focusing on relationships isn't even in the itenerary for her (if she is really participating in the program).
Don't you want her to succeed? The alternative was what? Her using and most likely dying. Love means letting go Steve. It means that no matter what the outcome that they are entitled to a healthy life, with or without us.

i want to know her sober, and clean, and working through therapy and i am willing to wait but i am also afraid to wait. she can already be checking out. i dont really hear from her, but i dont know if it is really because she is working on herself and should not be focused at all on a relationship, or if its because she has no need for me now or some other thing.

If you try to cling to her, she will not be in your life, that is for certain. You are going to miss her a lot but believe me when I say you also need this time to recover. You are already in a panic and she is just beginning to do her work. Let her breathe. The only thing she should be serious about now is her recovery, not anyone or anything else Steve.

She is a special person to you so you can keep her in a special place but projecting any of your worry or anxiety about her recovery onto her isn't fair. Nor is it helpful. You should be RELIEVED she is not on the streets!

This isn't about you Steve. I know this because I'm in it too but I allowed myself to grieve and feel the loss so that I could resume my life. After some time, you may actually start to feel anger. Hard to believe that now but the time, manipulation and worry she put you through are the things you will process and you may not like the answers that emerge. You may not even WANT her. I think some anger will actually be constructive for you and healing.

I still want my guy but I decided I am not reaching out to him anymore. I love and support him but I need someone who can give back. So do you. She cannot and will not be able to for a lonnnng time. Just live your life and the future will unfold as it is. The sadness will not make their process go any faster or bring her any closer to you so that is when letting go with love is something to really adhere to.

She shouldn't be a part of you, she needs to be whole and herself. That is what makes a relationship healthy. All I can advise is stay busy, as busy as you can be so that the obsessive thinking doesn't cloud your perception of the situation (hers or yours). You will be OK.

co- yes, i am addressing my toxicity thru therapy.

rtia- it could be just that, but its too early for me to tell. i get little crumbs from her, mostly superficial, but i do not expect much right now. i guess i am glad to hear from her. this morning she sent a text saying shes been three weeks clean. i congratulated her and said that was wonderful and i was proud and ended wit ha little inside joke. she replied asking if i would send her this little novelty refrigerator magnet she really likes. i said ok. and that leads me in to babyblue-

i am doing a really good job not clinging. i dont call her and sent one short text saying goodnight. and i accept the distance in order for her to deal with the things in her head. i like to believe that she is embracing recovery and realize that relationship cannot be on her itinerary at the moment, or for a while. i guess this is another one of those counter-intuitive things- you expect that this would be a time when friendship would be important and needed, but it is a time for friends to let go, and i realize that her and i have been more than friends. its because of events in the past that i get into a little panic as there could be more going on that i am unaware of, meaning i really do not know what she is thinking about me or us.

now, i understand that the most important thing is that she is off the streets and staying clean- and that is a huge relief, and i am very very happy for her for that. i try to say or do nothing that projects my worry and anxiety. i try to keep everything nice and simple. but i would feel good with a shred of reassurance like- i love you or miss you. but i dont want that to sound selfish on my part. i know during this time she needs to be selfish. but again, from some past behaviors, i am conditioned to seek that reassurance from her.

maybe it is not knowing what is on the other end of the rainbow. all along we painted a picture of what would be there, and part of me feels really confident in her, but there are fears too.

i have had moments of anger, but i do not run away with it. i chalk it up to the results of addiction. normally she wouldn't have done the things that made me angry. what i feel bad about is all the anger i let out toward her the last couple months. i feel like i never let up and i fel especially bad because i know how unhappy she was with her life. she got mugged and i was rather cold about it. she got bullied by a big crazy lady on the street that scared most of the guys out there. i witnessed it once and gave no support. i guess i tried making it all be part of the consequences for what she was doing, but i still feel bad that i lost my normal nurturing and loving ways. she has always said she understood that. one thing i never did was make any comments judging how she made money. i never put her down for that because i know how bad she felt as it was.

i am trying to get my life back. i thought it would be easier. i know what you mean saying she should not be a part of me, but you know what i mean, that when you are with someone, you share yourself and that person becomes a big part of you. she is a big part of me and i want her to get better and be happy more than anything. i am letting go with love. i want someone to give back, but maybe i am not used to that. i guess all i want for me is to know that her feelings have not changed, that way i know how to feel. if this were a normal situation, i could read into the lack of communication or lack of the things couples say to each other, but this is not normal and i excuse everything saying she needs to work on herself. its only three weeks, i understand that is a short time. i just have that fear that maybe i was used, but i then assure myself that if that was the case, i probably wouldn't have gotten the early texts and calls from her, but maybe the move was new to her and she needed to feel that connection, but now that timehas passed, she doesnt need me.

i guess too that it is hard for me to keep my thoguhts and feelings in. i know i cannot write a nice long letter to her or send a pretty picture. i dont want to seem clingy or insecure. it feels unnatural to not be able to tell someone you love them or jsut that you miss them asa friend. buti have to remond myself that she was high for a year and i dont know what was real. i so much wanted to believe is was, but now the dust may start to settle and she may not want the life with me she said she did. and at time, i am even confused what i want. i need to heal too. i became addicted to all that went along with her life and lost mine. but after you go to war, its hard to return to the mundane. sitting at a bar with my friends doesnt appeal to me.

i jsut want a nice simple life wit he right person.

so in the end, there are no answers and i do need to learn to take care of me. i dont want to tell myself we are over prematurely and sabotage the relationship, but i dont want to be a chump either. she told me a couple times to have faith in her and us. i guess all i can do is try to make the best of this, while being relieved that she is at least of the streets and off of dope!

sorry for the rant, but i just ended up typing all my thoughts.

i jsut want a nice simple life wit he right person.

She is not the right person for you and you are not the right person for her. She is toxic. You are toxic. Your relationship is toxic.

The sooner you accept that, the better off you will be.

Unfortunately you may be manipulated by her or you may not. Right now your focus needs to be on healing your heart; understanding, learning, coming to terms with her addiction.

I am going through a similar situation to you right now. I am attending addiction specific counseling for significant others in addition to posting and reading on SR, it helps, maybe you can find something similar in your city.

Trying to get your life back to normal and fill the void of your relationship is tough. You can distract yourself all you want, but you can't run from the thoughts in your head. I keep hearing that it's going to take time. time sucks! I cant offer much because I am where you are right now, but, just take solace in the fact that your not alone.

wwsd-

you are right. i think if i was on the other side i would be telling myself the same thing.

the thing is, i've never been this way. is it possible that the right/wrong person can bring out something toxic within us?

i know when i was younger i used to look for happiness within a relationship. over the years i learned that i was trying to fill the giant emotional void i had within me due to chiildhood and i subconsciously looked for someone to give and receive love and affection to and from. but later relationships seemed more 'normal' in that i had found that within myself and that the person i was with was more ofa best friend/lover thing. i dont know why i have such a strong attachment to this one. maybe i feel i wont find another who has the same types of interests. it gets tiring trying to figure it out.

whyme-

the counseling i am going to is for significant other in addiction and realtionships and self improvement. time does suck! i have struggled not falling back into old habits of my own to fill the void. but i am glad i am aware of that and feel confident i wont. the worst i am doing is getting back into my collectors more and buying records. i need to get back to guitar, painting, and writing, but when i do those things now, they somehow make the void all that more real.

you dont have to say much to say something good, and i do take solace in not being alone.
thanks

"just accept what's happened and move on with your life"

it's something I heard over and over again, by a thousand different people until one day my psychiatrist said it to me (probably for the thousand time over) but somehow, that one day, it STUCK in my thoughts.

I felt a relief in my heart, a freeing of sort, heaviness gone from on top of my shoulders, as if I just turned a new leaf and it all made sense.

It was all different from that day on. I did move on. First mentally/emotionally then physically.

It took one moment of "rederecting" my thoughts, whereas then my feelings followed.

If that's what you want, I hope you get there too.

I guess I am still confused as to what she is to you. If you are in love with her then she of course senses it and her not saying I love you, sadly, is maybe because she doesn't feel the same. Trust your gut.

Not everything they do or say relates or is caused by the addiction. It is just who they are. Now she is sober so...... maybe you are seeing her for who she is. Someone throwing out crumbs to you :( . I read lots of rationalizations for what she is doing or how she treats you in your post and yes, some of it makes sense if she is in a program but she isn't inpatient so she also chosing to keep her distance.

I suspect she doesn't have anyone left in her life to support her so she is keeping you on that string or she'd have no one. I dunno Steve, she is still manipulative and she is sober. That is who she is. :( She isn't acting much different frankly other than she is in a safer setting and not using.

I saw the season premier of Intervention last night and thought of you; it was about a gal much like your friend. They interviewed this guy who was madly in love with her. Then they interviewed her seperately and she admitted in so many words to using him. She didn't love the guy but knew he thought the relationship was so much more because of his need to help her. She didn't feel badly at all either and in his presence she was all lovey dovey. He even gave her an engagement ring and she pawned it for drugs. Not saying your friend is that cold and calculating but it is something to think about.

I dunno, I thought of you because two people can be on completely different spheres when it comes to relationships. That is why living your life and letting go of the obsession for something that just isn't happening right now is much healthier for you. Not trying to rain on the love rainbow but her overall perspective of what you both share seems quite different than yours (from what you post).

True, loving an addict isn't going to be in a normal realm by any means but there is actually quite a bit of 'normal' in a relationship with an addict or we wouldn't really stick it out. Even though my friend is NC these last few months, I was never doubting of his feelings for me, ever. Even in his minimal capacity he did put forth an effort to reassure me, even when locked up in rehab.

You've given so much of yourself Steve and deserve so much more back :(

what is she to me.....

that sounds like the beginning of a bad poem. but we were together in the past, things didnt work out, she felt that even though she was now high, she could see she had to change things about herself, and that she wantedto get clean and spend our lives together. when she left, she said to believe in her and us and all that stuf fthat could be in that bad poem.

yes, she is chosing to keep her distance. on her own or at the suggestion ofthe program. she's taking methadone and jsut hit the level she will be at for a while, while she goes to therapy and eventually wenns off the mewthadone.


back track- trust my gut---- my gut says somethnig isnt quite right. maybe i just need time to keep getting over all this.


but he idea was that she's get better, i'd get better, and happily ever after.
i dont see it playing out that way. i dont know if i want it to play out that way and i dont know what she wants either. in a way i am glad she isnt being clingy right now, maybe that means she is fixing herself. i dont know, so like you said, i just have to live my life and wait and see.

funny thing was, i dont watch much tv, but i saw intervention was on. i was going to watch but thought it might be too painful.

iguess i get conflicted, because on the one hand i feel she could act more like a girlfriend and express a bit of love and all that but ion the other from everythhing i have read its best to let go of relationships or put them on hold, at least ones like our where we are not married.

i'll be ok no matter waht happens. maybe i am suffering from tthe loss of the idea of a relationship. i dont knw if this is really who she is or if she is adjusting to the changes or what. i guess its still too early to tell and i guess i am not sure if i will be able to be happy with her, but atthe same time i am not sure if i will be happy without her.

i am happy work is over!

i don't even mind being in some sort of long distance thing, especially if its going to help her (and me) inthe long run. but it would be noce to be having normal-ish contact.

hey, how was your day?
how you feeling?
i miss you...
good morning
good night


but, whether its a program or not, i have to give spce if thats what she wants or needs.

"i'll be ok no matter waht happens. maybe i am suffering from tthe loss of the idea of a relationship. i dont knw if this is really who she is or if she is adjusting to the changes or what. i guess its still too early to tell and i guess i am not sure if i will be able to be happy with her, but atthe same time i am not sure if i will be happy without her."

Wow. Just keep rereading that statement. I know that I have to keep rereading all of my codie books, Alanon lit, and step guides a lot to remind me of what is real and what is my imagination. Relationship addiction is just as toxic as any "real" drug addiction. I started all of this in 2005 and it's taken me a long time to begin to really see the light. Recently, I put myself in relationship "abstinance" for the next nine months....when I did that I felt a huge sense of relief. I decided that the ONLY person that I will worry about (other than my kids) for the next 9 months is ME.

I think that all you can do is keep plugging along. I know that what it took for me was getting sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Steve
You are working on you.....I'm so very glad to hear that.

You are in my prayers today, as is your dear friend.

gentle hugs
ke

thank you kindeyes.
i still dont really think i am working on me though. i feel more like i am working on how to deal with the limbo. i dont feel yet that i am trying to move on. at least thats how it feels every morning

Then why don't you start?

putting it all out there
 

i guess i am afraid.
i am afraid to try starting over because it feels that i need to do that alone and just dont want to go back to being alone. im hesitant because by doing that, i have to accept that her and i are over. and accepting that is a lot to swallow. accepting that we are over means accepting that nothing was real.

now that she has moved, i expected things to be different. i expected her to need time to work on herself, but i expected to have more talks with her, i expected more sharing, i expected to hear more from her and at not have the 'i miss you and love you' to stop after a week or so.

at the same time this is new to me, so i dont know what to expect. i dont know what she is going through. i dont know what she is feeling. maybe time is moving differently for her. maybe she is able to be working on herself while still having feelings for me. but, i know i cant ask for reassurance from her at this point.

i stuck by her through all of this the past year and did more for her then her family. thats a whole other story. i did the best i could for as long as i could. and i sometimes feel terrible for the times i would not let her stay. but i also justify that for the right reasons. i know at the end, she was exhausted mentally and physically and that is why she so readily moved. but i wonder if in her mind, that me not letting her stay or giving her money, is construed as me not caring.

she had decided that she did not want to go to rehab, but wanted to go on methadone and go to therapy. could it be said that if i loved her, i would have let her do that in my house? i was uncomfortable doing that and told her she would still need to find a place to live. was that me pushing her out?

if addiction was not part of the equation, i would have been more comfortable helping her and letting her stay. but because i fell into such financial trouble, i could not afford to support her anyway. plus issue came up between her and my niece who lives with me, and my parents were coming back again for a month. they stay with my grandmother, but would still be around a lot. i am afraid that she feels that i don't stand by her and am afraid to stand up to them in her behalf. it is their house though.

also, if addiction was not a factor and she moved and was only doling out scraps, i would have a pretty good idea that she was separating from me. but i dont know if she is putting in distance to move on without me or to help fix herself

that is my biggest question concerning her right now. i have read and heard many stories about hte partner sticking with the addict through the worst of times and the addict moving on during recovery. in the end, ifthat is what she needs, i am still relieved she is clean. but i dont know what is the case here. i am not calling or texting or sending well constructed love letters, but part of me wants to send a letter, but i recognize that after only three weeks, that is too soon and i try keeping in mind that she knows how i feel. that is easy, she knows how i feel. i just cant decipher how she feels.

so, i could say that since i cant feel from her, i should move on, but that would only apply if there was not this deeper issue of addiction and the causes for it. i know there is so much underlying stuff with her that has likely not even been touched upon yet. i dont know who she is completely sober, but i keep having that belief that she is or can be the person i thought she wanted to be when we first met.

so, basically, i dont know what to think. she is three weeks clean and three weeks out of the slum and away from 'working' for money. i feel worse in the mornings but start to pull it together and end up ok throughout the day, but i dont know what to think about her or us. i am afraid to let go if she is not wanting us to not be together, but at he same time i dont know if i have the trust for her that i should have for someoen i want ot be with. but i know that i have never felt this way about someone, maybe therapy will uncover something.

sorry thatwas so long, but i needed to get it out.

Sounds like you need to go total no contact. Out of sight, out of mind. It won't be that way initially, but eventually the pawning for her will ease up. Get off the hamster wheel, grieve and move on. Easier said than done, but Steve, you've gotta do something. IMHO I don't see much improvement from when you first started posting. That's alot of wasted time. We've all btdt, but I see you wallowing in this. Let her work on her, you work on you and if it comes together in the future, you'll both approach it on a healthier level.

i recently realized that too. first the issue was that she was on the streets using. i knew that if she went into rehab, there would be long periods of no contact, but i guess i was not prepared for her going away on her own and cutting down contact.


i guess i have to just let her be. i dont want her thinking that since she is away i stopped loving, but ihave faith that she doesnt think that.

i feel beter as the day goes on, but mornings are rough.

Funny how we can distract ourselves from solving our real problems by focusing on other peoples problems. For YEARS. I don't get it. We choose to live in misery because we are comfortable with it and too scared of failure to change ourselves.

Without fear there can be no courage. ~Gandolf

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. ~Winston Churchill

You, my friend, are a victim of disorganized thinking. You are under the unfortunate impression that just because you run away you have no courage; you're confusing courage with wisdom. ~ The wizard of oz to the cowardly lion

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. ~Marie Curie

To fear is one thing. To let fear grab you by the tail and swing you around is another. ~Katherine Paterson, Jacob Have I Loved

Who is more foolish, the child afraid of the dark or the man afraid of the light? ~Maurice Freehill

Those who fear life are already three parts dead. ~Bertrand Russell

Anything I've ever done that ultimately was worthwhile... initially scared me to death. ~Betty Bender

i think there is something to all of this. and many people here have said i am addicted to her and perhaps i see it a little now.

i've been looking thru my past and tryingto see patterns. while i have no pattern of dating toxic people, i do see a pattern beyond that.

i mentioned about smoking pot in my past. that was my doc. what i realize is that between relationships i smoke weed and focus energy on collecting. then when i get in a relationship, i jsut stop smoking witout a problem. then back to smoking a month or so after the relationship ends. i was smoking last year before allthis began. and once i knew she was out on the streets missing, i stopped- overnight. all my energy went ot finding her. the part year i didnt smoke. now i dont have her adn i am not going to smoke so i am dealing with having nothing to grasp for the first time in a long time. i am trying to not let collecting distract me either, as that becomes a substitute. i am glad i realize that.

part of what made me see this is that my alo said she has smoked pot again to help curb what she is going through geting off the heroin and on the methadone. i cant say that i agree with it, but if it works and she doesnt stay on it than thats fine. hopefully she wont make that a new doc.

i am trying to see if she became a doc for me

After all this time, you still don't know??

honestly no. i know it might seem obvious to others, but for me it is confusing because i have had a relationship with her and really care for her, but i canot yet see the line between love the i feel for her or something that is working ona different level in me


i am also dealing with the enabling i did. i don't know if it was right or wrong to try help her her from doing what she was doing. all during it, she would say how grateful she was for me trying to help, but now i wonder if she will end up resenting that like others have said.

* Anxiety---------------check
* Restlessness
* Irritability
* Insomnia
* Headaches
* Poor concentration
* Depression-----------check
* Social isolation-------check

Physical Withdrawal Symptoms

* Sweating
* Racing heart
* Palpitations
* Muscle tension
* Tightness in the chest
* Difficulty breathing
* Tremor
* Nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea

Anvil posted this for me in one of my threads and I am re-posting:



The Case of Obsessive Relational Progression

So how do you know if you have developed an unhealthy attachment to another person? By examining the Obsessive Love Wheel (OLW), which is designed to illustrate an overall process called Obsessive Relational Progression (ORP) [the specific attachment style of people Who Confuse Love with Obsession] it may be possible to recognize if you have a problem. There are four phases of ORP and each one carries unique behaviors. As demonstrated through the wheel, once an unhealthy attachment to another starts, the person who Confuses Love with Obsession begins to lose emotional control.

It is called a "wheel" because it is always turning, round and round as the relationship continues. Sometimes the wheel turns quickly, other times slowly, but it is always turning and always painful. While examining the wheel, look for any patterns of behavior in your relationship(s) and ask yourself: "Do either I or the person I am involved with behave this way?"

OBSESSIVE LOVE WHEEL

OBSESSIVE LOVE WHEEL ©
As Part of Obsessive Relational Progression

PHASE ONE THE ATTRACTION PHASE:

The initial phase of ORP is characterized by an instantaneous and overwhelming attraction to another person. It is at this point the relationally dependent person becomes "hooked" on a romantic interest, usually resulting from the slightest bit of attention from the person they are attracted to. Phase One ORP behaviors can include:

• An instant attraction to romantic interest, usually occurring within the first few minutes of meeting.

• An immediate urge to rush into a relationship regardless of compatibility.

• Becoming "hooked on the look" of another, focusing on the person's physical characteristics while ignoring personality differences.

• Unrealistic fantasies about a relationship with a love interest, assigning "magical" qualities to an object of affection.

• The beginnings of obsessive, controlling behaviors begin to manifest.

PHASE TWO THE ANXIOUS PHASE:

This phase in considered a relational turning point, which usually occurs after a commitment has been made between both parties. Sometimes however, the relationally dependent person will enter into this phase without the presence of a commitment. This happens when the afflicted person creates the illusion of intimacy, regardless of the other person's true feelings. The second phase of ORP behaviors can include:

• Unfounded thoughts of infidelity on the part of a partner and demanding accountability for normal daily activities.

• An overwhelming fear of abandonment, including baseless thoughts of a partner walking out on the relationship in favor of another person.

• The need to constantly be in contact with a love interest via phone, email or in person.

• Strong feelings of mistrust begin to emerge, causing depression, resentment and relational tension.

• The continuation and escalation of obsessive, controlling behaviors.

PHASE THREE THE OBSESSIVE PHASE:

This particular phase represents the rapid escalation of this unhealthy attachment style. It is at this point that obsessive, controlling behaviors reach critical mass, ultimately overwhelming the RD person's life. It is also at this point that the person being controlled begins to pull back and ultimately, severs the relationship. In short, Phase Three is characterized by a total loss of control on the part of the RD person, resulting from extreme anxiety. Usually, the following characteristics are apparent during the third phase of ORP.

• The onset of "tunnel vision," meaning that the relationally dependent person cannot stop thinking about a love interest and required his or her constant attention.

• Neurotic, compulsive behaviors, including rapid telephone calls to love interest's place of residence or workplace.

• Unfounded accusations of "cheating" due to extreme anxiety.

• "Drive-bys" around a love interest's home or place of employment, with the goal of assuring that the person is at where "he or she is supposed to be."

• Physical or electronic monitoring activities, following a love interest's whereabouts throughout the course of a day to discover daily activities.

• Extreme control tactics, including questioning a love interest's commitment to the relationship (guilt trips) with the goal of manipulating a love interest into providing more attention.

PHASE FOUR DESTRUCTIVE PHASE:

This is the final phase of Obsessive Relational Progression. It represents the destruction of the relationship, due to phase three behaviors, which have caused a love interest to understandably flee. For a variety of reasons, this is considered the most dangerous of the four phases, because the RD person suddenly plummets into a deep depression due to the collapse of the relationship. Here are some of the more common behaviors that are exhibited during phase four of ORP:

• Overwhelming feelings of depression (feeling "empty" inside).

• A sudden loss of self-esteem, due to the collapse of the relationship.

• Extreme feelings of self-blame and at times, self-hatred.

• Anger, rage and a desire to seek revenge against a love interest for breaking off the relationship.

• Denial that the relationship has ended and attempting to "win a loved one back" by making promises to "change".

• The use of drugs, alcohol, food or sex to "medicate" the emotional pain.

SUMMARY

If your behaviors mirrored the various phases or the Obsessive Love Wheel, then it may be time to learn more. Obsessive Relational Progression is a problem that does not get better on its own and does not get better over time. Sadly for many people, the only way they can get off their frenzied wheel is by jumping onto a new one.

good thread about people addiction
 

Hey Steve... check out this thread... you might find it helpful????

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-quacking.html

I will bump it, too.

"As long as we believe that someone else has the power to make us happy then we are setting ourselves up to be victims"

Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls by Robert Burney

One of the biggest problems with relationships in this society is that the context we approach them from is too small. We were taught that getting the relationship is the goal.

It starts in early childhood with Fairy Tales where the Prince and the Princess live happily-ever-after. It continues in movies and books where "boy meets girl" "boy loses girl" "boy gets girl back" - the music swells and the happy couple ride off into the sunset. The songs that say "I can't smile without you" "I can't live without you" "You are my everything" describe the type of love we learned about growing up - toxic love - an addiction with the other person as our drug of choice, as our Higher Power.

Any time we set another human being up to be our Higher Power we are going to experience failure in whatever we are trying to accomplish. We will end up feeling victimized by the other person or by our self - and even when we feel victimized by the other person we blame our self for the choices we made. We are set up to fail to get our needs met in Romantic Relationships because of the belief system we were taught in childhood and the messages we got from our society growing up.

There is no goal to reach that will bring us to happily-ever after. We are not incomplete until we find out soul mate. We are not halves that cannot be whole without a relationship.

True Love is not a painful obsession. It is not taking a hostage or being a hostage. It is not all-consuming, isolating, or constricting. Believing we can't be whole or happy without a relationship is unhealthy and leads us to accept deprivation and abuse, and to engage in manipulation, dishonesty, and power struggles. The type of love we learned about growing up is an addiction, a form of toxic love.

Here is a short list of the characteristics of Love vs. toxic love (compiled with the help of the work of Melody Beattie & Terence Gorski.)

1. Love - Development of self first priority.
Toxic love - Obsession with relationship.
2. Love - Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow.
Toxic love - Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love (may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness)

3. Love - Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships.
Toxic love - Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.

4. Love - Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth.
Toxic love - Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.

5. Love - Appropriate Trust (i.e. trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.)
Toxic love - Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."

6. Love - Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together.
Toxic love - Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.

7. Love - Embracing of each other's individuality.
Toxic love - Trying to change other to own image.

8. Love - Relationship deals with all aspects of reality.
Toxic love - Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.

9. Love - Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood.
Toxic love - Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.

10. Love - Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.)
Toxic love - Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)

11. Love - Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship.
Toxic love - Pressure around sex due to insecurity, fear & need for immediate gratification.

12. Love - Ability to enjoy being alone.
Toxic love - Unable to endure separation; clinging.

13. Love - Cycle of comfort and contentment.
Toxic love - Cycle of pain and despair.

Love is not supposed to be painful. There is pain involved in any relationship but if it is painful most of the time then something is not working.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship - it is natural and healthy. There is nothing wrong with wanting a relationship that will last forever - expecting it to last forever is what is dysfunctional. Expectations set us up to be a victim - and cause to abandon ourselves in search of our goal.

If we can start seeing relationships not as the goal but as opportunities for growth then we can start having more functional relationships. A relationship that ends is not a failure or a punishment - it is a lesson.

As long as our definition of a successful relationship is one that lasts forever - we are set up to fail. As long as we believe that we have to have the other in our life to be happy, we are really just an addict trying to protect our supply - using another person as our drug of choice. That is not True Love - nor is it Loving.


for more go to: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...dependent.html