Codie quacking......
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Codie quacking......
In regards to Freedoms post in Cess's thread (I don't want to hijack - so I'm starting a new one)
In a non addictive relationship.... it's okay to expect or want to be as important to them as they are to me, to be desired, to have their attention, to be someone they care about. But with an addict.... it's like we are "using" them to fill a void?
I guess I can understand. I think that I was addicted to a lot things about my relationship - or him in general. But- I don't think I was asking too much - or was it just too much for an addict?
It is true that we quack as well. While I was wailing about the EXAH and 'him, him, him', in reality, wasn't it all about me, me, me in an equally dysfunctional way?
Let's not dissect all the lies I was telling myself inside either to continue in that destructive and draining relationship!
I took everything he did personally, as if I were that damned important in the grand scheme of things.
He turned to the drugs/booze to try filling that void inside, and I was grabbing with equal gusto at him to fill that void inside of me.
Let's not dissect all the lies I was telling myself inside either to continue in that destructive and draining relationship!
I took everything he did personally, as if I were that damned important in the grand scheme of things.
He turned to the drugs/booze to try filling that void inside, and I was grabbing with equal gusto at him to fill that void inside of me.
I guess I can understand. I think that I was addicted to a lot things about my relationship - or him in general. But- I don't think I was asking too much - or was it just too much for an addict?
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by Abundance 
I guess I can understand. I think that I was addicted to a lot things about my relationship - or him in general. But- I don't think I was asking too much - or was it just too much for an addict?
There's a good chance if I'm healthy physically, emotionally, and spiritually, my chances of hooking up/enmeshing with a dysfunctional partner (addict or whatever) are pretty darned slim. I've had a few dates over the past 5 years, and I see red flags reeeeeal quick!
I deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. Honesty is important to me too.
The healthiest relationship I've seen is my sponsor (27+ years clean/sober) and his wife of 17 years. They love each other but are also very independent in their own ways. Neither looks to the other to 'fill' them up, but they enjoy sharing life together. His recovery is first in his books because that's how everything else comes together. She does the same with her recovery too. Does that make any sense?
A Brand New Life
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 287
I think that is the way it should be, each with your own lives and meet in the evening to discuss and plan the weekend. I also believe loyalty trust and honesty are required. I think it can be done. I have seen several aunts remarry only to find the second go round if you just respect one another and both give 100% it all works out. I am always worried what my family will think that I was so fooled by my ex, but the truth is they have an attitude of: "Ok, so you fell, now what are you going to do to put a smile back on your face?" I especially love one of my friends quotes: "If that was the hard part, just think of the reward coming!"
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: To the North
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A small example, for me, that I now know - in a healthy relationship, I would have "expected" my partner to be there for me in time(s) of crisis (i.e. death in the family). Knowing what I know now, IMO, it was definitely NOT too much to ask. But, when my aunt died, you know who I called and asked to fly across the country to come to the funeral with me? My best friend, not my husband. He was not, and would not have been, comforting, supportive or even gracious about being there for me. AND, he didn't even care that I asked her to fly 3000 miles instead of him, he was good with that! That was before I found out about the addiction. Now, why in the world would I stay in a relationship with anyone that is unwilling and unable to be there for me at such a time?
Who knows - but you all helped me figure it out, and I will never be (hopefully) in such a situation again.
Unfortunately, after these last few years of putting the pieces together, I see that my XAH was incapable and unwilling to be a partner. I think there are some A's who try, despite their disease, but I think more often than not the situations are like mine. Unsupportive and alone. There is independence in togetherness, and then there is seperate independence with NO interdependence. If I find a partner again, I would like inter(not de)pendence.
Who knows - but you all helped me figure it out, and I will never be (hopefully) in such a situation again.
Unfortunately, after these last few years of putting the pieces together, I see that my XAH was incapable and unwilling to be a partner. I think there are some A's who try, despite their disease, but I think more often than not the situations are like mine. Unsupportive and alone. There is independence in togetherness, and then there is seperate independence with NO interdependence. If I find a partner again, I would like inter(not de)pendence.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marietta, GA
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when i married my ex I think i feel in love with the man i knew he could be and not so much the man he was. He could still be that man one day but i now know that there was nothing i could do to help him get there no matter how hard i tried.
the ole saying "you cant love someone else until you love yourself" is so true. If i'm insecure with myself then i cant be secure in love - if i'm trying to change someone then i'm not really in love with them. When two people have discovered who they are and are comfortable with themselves then they are capabable of loving each other. I think the key is to be with someone but not own someone - to walk together - each in their own walk but sharing the experience together.
the ole saying "you cant love someone else until you love yourself" is so true. If i'm insecure with myself then i cant be secure in love - if i'm trying to change someone then i'm not really in love with them. When two people have discovered who they are and are comfortable with themselves then they are capabable of loving each other. I think the key is to be with someone but not own someone - to walk together - each in their own walk but sharing the experience together.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eastern Shore, Maryland
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When I met my abf... thinking I should start addressing him as ex-abf... I was in love with him. He was everything I wanted in a man - independent, strong, loving and soft in the middle. Sort of like my favorite candy bar.
He had a job and was making his own way through life. After my ex-h, that's what I was looking for. Not someone to latch myself back onto, but a partner. I didn't need him but I wanted him. I wanted his strength and his love. When it went to the sewer, I started back with my dependence on him in my life. Bad move there, Cherie.
My friends used to ask me what I wanted out of a relationship following my divorce. I said I just want to have a witness to my life. Someone to walk beside me and have a conversation with along the way. Instead, I get a vampire. Charming and wonderful until the night comes.
I am not a perfect person. I am overweight, I curse, I'm loud and speak my mind frequently. But in the end, none of that matters. I have a good heart, I am caring and I am kind. That's what matters. I love myself for those qualities. Even the ones I just pegged as 'bad' qualities are what makes me me. They are who I am. I never used to know myself and never used to like myself. I think that's where my codie side took over. Now, I'm happy with whatever I look like, however I talk, and whatever I do. Because I know that's me shining through.
He had a job and was making his own way through life. After my ex-h, that's what I was looking for. Not someone to latch myself back onto, but a partner. I didn't need him but I wanted him. I wanted his strength and his love. When it went to the sewer, I started back with my dependence on him in my life. Bad move there, Cherie.
My friends used to ask me what I wanted out of a relationship following my divorce. I said I just want to have a witness to my life. Someone to walk beside me and have a conversation with along the way. Instead, I get a vampire. Charming and wonderful until the night comes.
I am not a perfect person. I am overweight, I curse, I'm loud and speak my mind frequently. But in the end, none of that matters. I have a good heart, I am caring and I am kind. That's what matters. I love myself for those qualities. Even the ones I just pegged as 'bad' qualities are what makes me me. They are who I am. I never used to know myself and never used to like myself. I think that's where my codie side took over. Now, I'm happy with whatever I look like, however I talk, and whatever I do. Because I know that's me shining through.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
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Thank you for bumping this (((((Hello-Kitty))))).
For some reason, when it was first started I missed it.
Had I seen it, it sure would have helped me in the fiasco that happened last year after my 'first love' called me. Might have only taken 2 months instead of 10 months for me to tell him I cannot have toxic people in my life and you are toxic.
Yep VERY IMPORTANT THREAD in my book!!!!!!!!
Love and hugs,
For some reason, when it was first started I missed it.
Had I seen it, it sure would have helped me in the fiasco that happened last year after my 'first love' called me. Might have only taken 2 months instead of 10 months for me to tell him I cannot have toxic people in my life and you are toxic.
Yep VERY IMPORTANT THREAD in my book!!!!!!!!
Love and hugs,
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
I quacked.
I whined and I complained that he wouldn't quit using drugs and treat me better for A REALLY LONG TIME. I made threats. I was a victim. It was all his fault cuz he was an addict. And a liar. And a cheater.
I was free to leave. I chose to stay and quack about it.
I was in denial about my role in the situation. My sickness. My codependence.
Now I am much more observant and in tune to myself. I know my codependent tendencies. My tendency to start doing everything for a person. My tendency to want to support them as they become a better person - the person that I think they should be.
Now I judge myself. I don't judge others. I try hard to have clearly stated values boundaries. Firm ones. And I measure everything I do against those values. And I hold myself to them. And in holding myself to them, I am forced to hold others to them as well.
Others are free to do what they want. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. Or let them be a part of my life.
No more quacking. I say what I mean, mean what I say, and I try not to say it mean.
I whined and I complained that he wouldn't quit using drugs and treat me better for A REALLY LONG TIME. I made threats. I was a victim. It was all his fault cuz he was an addict. And a liar. And a cheater.
I was free to leave. I chose to stay and quack about it.
I was in denial about my role in the situation. My sickness. My codependence.
Now I am much more observant and in tune to myself. I know my codependent tendencies. My tendency to start doing everything for a person. My tendency to want to support them as they become a better person - the person that I think they should be.
Now I judge myself. I don't judge others. I try hard to have clearly stated values boundaries. Firm ones. And I measure everything I do against those values. And I hold myself to them. And in holding myself to them, I am forced to hold others to them as well.
Others are free to do what they want. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. Or let them be a part of my life.
No more quacking. I say what I mean, mean what I say, and I try not to say it mean.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 390
Yet our side (and yes I did it too) is so fixated on our DOC (the addict) all we do is give the report of the day talking about the addict. What he did, what he said, what he didn’t do, what he didn’t say, when he used, what he used, how he used, who he used with, and on and on. We never will find the answers or recovery when fixated on the addict…all the answers are inside of us.
Goodness! This sure rings true. I am getting much better at this, but even now, 6 months after separation I still fall into this from time to time. I guess that is progress, right? Actually what is bigger progress for me is reading this thread anyway! I used to hate reading anything that pointed a finger back at me. These type of threads I avoided like the plague. Or better yet, when I read them they pi$$ed me off! Ah...maybe I am slowly getting this? Maybe I am in recovery and didn't know it?
Thanks for this!
Goodness! This sure rings true. I am getting much better at this, but even now, 6 months after separation I still fall into this from time to time. I guess that is progress, right? Actually what is bigger progress for me is reading this thread anyway! I used to hate reading anything that pointed a finger back at me. These type of threads I avoided like the plague. Or better yet, when I read them they pi$$ed me off! Ah...maybe I am slowly getting this? Maybe I am in recovery and didn't know it?
Thanks for this!
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Wow, an old thread bumped up! It's interesting to read something I posted a few years back.
We do get as sick as the addict, and I didn't want to own my part in that for years. I created a lot of unnecessary pain for myself in doing so.
Thank God I don't have to live like that anymore. It's freeing.
We do get as sick as the addict, and I didn't want to own my part in that for years. I created a lot of unnecessary pain for myself in doing so.
Thank God I don't have to live like that anymore. It's freeing.
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 93
Its funny. The last thing the addict wants is the co-addict to be happy and the last thing a co-addict wants is the addict to get clean. We can quack all we want but really for a co-addict to be happy and healthy they need to not be involved with an addict. I remember chatting with my counselor about this very thing. I remember saying "her problems always trump mine because they are bigger and more dire." To which he replied, "have you ever been in a relationship where the other person listened and tended to your problems?" I said "no." To which he replied, "you would like it, its called an adult relationship."
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,691
so glad to have this bumped again. It's some good stuff. And Anvil....I'm nominating you for the CEO of no-mo-codie-ness. Your post summed it up. I've always thought that all the talk about what the addict was doing/how they are doing was messed up. I know that I've done my share of it but I am really focusing on me and how I am doing these days.
It's a whole new way of thinking but it sure does make things better.
It's a whole new way of thinking but it sure does make things better.
ThatLittleGirl
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 273
Great Post!!!
As always Cynical, great insights from you!!! I've read your posts several times, digesting each piece because I think they're valuable learning opportunities for me:
We never will find the answers or recovery when fixated on the addict - I stayed fixated on my addict because I didn't want to look at myself. If I could continue to be the victim/martyr, then the problem wasn't mine, it was all his. Or said differently, if he would just clean up, our relationship would be perfect; not understanding I was at least as contributory to the dysfunction as he was.
all the answers are inside of us. - This was a painful realization. I was messed up...big time...and I had a lot of work to do in order to understand what all that meant. Even knowing that, I always blew it off and said I would do later...rationalizing the procrastination as laziness. The truth??? I was in the largest form of denial there was...probably much greater than my exah.
the mirror makes us look at why we ALLOWED it. - Probably the most bitter sweet pill for me to swallow. Bitter because I was unhappy. Here I was 37, divorced with two kids and no job, moving back home to live with my parents. I in no way wanted to take responsibility for the choices which landed me there. Sweet, because I finally understood the truth. It was all about ME!!! I was where I was due to MY CHOICES. Not my exah's choices, but mine.
The greatest salve for this wound was the knowledge that if I had the power to put me there, and I had the power to get myself out too! AND it was my choice where I went from then on out!!!
As always Cynical, great insights from you!!! I've read your posts several times, digesting each piece because I think they're valuable learning opportunities for me:
We never will find the answers or recovery when fixated on the addict - I stayed fixated on my addict because I didn't want to look at myself. If I could continue to be the victim/martyr, then the problem wasn't mine, it was all his. Or said differently, if he would just clean up, our relationship would be perfect; not understanding I was at least as contributory to the dysfunction as he was.
all the answers are inside of us. - This was a painful realization. I was messed up...big time...and I had a lot of work to do in order to understand what all that meant. Even knowing that, I always blew it off and said I would do later...rationalizing the procrastination as laziness. The truth??? I was in the largest form of denial there was...probably much greater than my exah.
the mirror makes us look at why we ALLOWED it. - Probably the most bitter sweet pill for me to swallow. Bitter because I was unhappy. Here I was 37, divorced with two kids and no job, moving back home to live with my parents. I in no way wanted to take responsibility for the choices which landed me there. Sweet, because I finally understood the truth. It was all about ME!!! I was where I was due to MY CHOICES. Not my exah's choices, but mine.
The greatest salve for this wound was the knowledge that if I had the power to put me there, and I had the power to get myself out too! AND it was my choice where I went from then on out!!!
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 390
We do get as sick as the addict, and I didn't want to own my part in that for years. I created a lot of unnecessary pain for myself in doing so.
Yes, yes, yes!!!
Something that jolted me recently... I was chatting with my mom about some crap that had happened, and of course my reaction was minimal at best. My mom looked at me and said, he's not the one that needs an intervention, you are! Yeah, it made me a bit ticked she said that, but I stewed on it, then realized she was right. I am starting to turn a corner...finally!
The biggest symptom of the crazy sickness is the degree of what we actually put up with or ALLOWED (so true Cynical)! There is a such thing as right and wrong, and I did have a gauge for it...something bad happened to me along the way. It is okay to stand up against WRONG!
Yes, yes, yes!!!
Something that jolted me recently... I was chatting with my mom about some crap that had happened, and of course my reaction was minimal at best. My mom looked at me and said, he's not the one that needs an intervention, you are! Yeah, it made me a bit ticked she said that, but I stewed on it, then realized she was right. I am starting to turn a corner...finally!
The biggest symptom of the crazy sickness is the degree of what we actually put up with or ALLOWED (so true Cynical)! There is a such thing as right and wrong, and I did have a gauge for it...something bad happened to me along the way. It is okay to stand up against WRONG!
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new state
Posts: 137
Oh, this thread is wonderful! Do I need this right now!! And this may have opened pandora's box a bit for me.
My biggest quacks, which looped in my head often, began with the words, “I can’t believe he ___(did something he’s done a dozen times before)___”, and, “He should be ___.”
Really now? I do not know what anyone else "should be" and I certainly couldn't actually have been shocked the tenth time the same thing happened.
And this one is hard to admit, but I think it's true. I went through this process where he would do something- like lie, yell, or insult me, or wig out about something illogical- and I would be SHOCKED!!! (Of course, he'd done it a dozen times before, but no matter... I was SHOCKED!!!) "How outrageous!" I'd think. And then I would feel superior. Yeah. I would. That was a big part of the drug for me, pretty sure. Then I'd hang in there and do that some more. Maybe even the adrenaline rush form being shocked or scared? I need to talk that over in therapy. This is kind of dark to realize. But I do remember getting a warm buzzy feeling when I felt superior. Ew, this ain't pretty.
A
THEN! I would strategize on how to get through to him so he could become what I knew he should be and (in my mind) "probably really wanted" to be- because I am so smart and good and loving, you know. Then he would confess and promise, and do and say all the things I wanted- and then we would gush at each other and have sex. I am certain that if I were not NC right now, and I told him this stuff, we would congratulate ourselves on how deep and loving we were and go have sex. And not do a flipping thing to change any of it! And I would be shocked (!!!) again in about four days. I am a sick puppy, folks.
We actually argued about what he thought I should be and what I thought he should be!!! (and who was to blame... okay, this is actually getting kind of funny.) And then the whole cycle would go around again. And each time I was shocked??!! (and superior.) Ohferheavensake.
My Biggest Quack, for sure: "I can't believe it! I'm so surprised! He shouldn't do that!"
Codie Quacking... really grateful you brought this up Hello-Kitty and Abundance. Thank you.
No, maybe the worst was feeling superior... this is nauseating that I did this.
My biggest quacks, which looped in my head often, began with the words, “I can’t believe he ___(did something he’s done a dozen times before)___”, and, “He should be ___.”
Really now? I do not know what anyone else "should be" and I certainly couldn't actually have been shocked the tenth time the same thing happened.
And this one is hard to admit, but I think it's true. I went through this process where he would do something- like lie, yell, or insult me, or wig out about something illogical- and I would be SHOCKED!!! (Of course, he'd done it a dozen times before, but no matter... I was SHOCKED!!!) "How outrageous!" I'd think. And then I would feel superior. Yeah. I would. That was a big part of the drug for me, pretty sure. Then I'd hang in there and do that some more. Maybe even the adrenaline rush form being shocked or scared? I need to talk that over in therapy. This is kind of dark to realize. But I do remember getting a warm buzzy feeling when I felt superior. Ew, this ain't pretty.
ATHEN! I would strategize on how to get through to him so he could become what I knew he should be and (in my mind) "probably really wanted" to be- because I am so smart and good and loving, you know. Then he would confess and promise, and do and say all the things I wanted- and then we would gush at each other and have sex. I am certain that if I were not NC right now, and I told him this stuff, we would congratulate ourselves on how deep and loving we were and go have sex. And not do a flipping thing to change any of it! And I would be shocked (!!!) again in about four days. I am a sick puppy, folks.
We actually argued about what he thought I should be and what I thought he should be!!! (and who was to blame... okay, this is actually getting kind of funny.) And then the whole cycle would go around again. And each time I was shocked??!! (and superior.) Ohferheavensake.
My Biggest Quack, for sure: "I can't believe it! I'm so surprised! He shouldn't do that!"
Codie Quacking... really grateful you brought this up Hello-Kitty and Abundance. Thank you.
No, maybe the worst was feeling superior... this is nauseating that I did this.
ThatLittleGirl
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 273
I would strategize on how to get through to him so he could become what I knew he should be and (in my mind) "probably really wanted" to be- because I am so smart and good and loving, you know. - I did the same...thought I "knew" what was best for exah, and who he truly was trying to be.
And not do a flipping thing to change any of it! And I would be shocked (!!!) again in about four days. - Ah yes the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. For ten years, I ran like a hamster on its wheel...going, going, going...nowhere!
Isn't it funny how we're all different, but yet, all really the same!!!
And not do a flipping thing to change any of it! And I would be shocked (!!!) again in about four days. - Ah yes the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. For ten years, I ran like a hamster on its wheel...going, going, going...nowhere!
Isn't it funny how we're all different, but yet, all really the same!!!
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 390
What? I do know what is best for him...what and how he SHOULD be! LOL Ok, maybe I do need some work on this one.
My Biggest Quack, for sure: "I can't believe it! Oh, for crying out loud this one is mine! I still self talk this one from time to time. Yeah...after 6, 7 years of the same old, same old, I still just "CAN"T BELIEVE IT".
My Biggest Quack, for sure: "I can't believe it! Oh, for crying out loud this one is mine! I still self talk this one from time to time. Yeah...after 6, 7 years of the same old, same old, I still just "CAN"T BELIEVE IT".
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