Feeling hopeless, looking for success stories!
 

I've just read through absolutely loads of posts from people who have gone through the same thing as me and now I feel completely hopeless because it seems that there is only one way this can possibly go.

Is there anyone out there who has a success story of managing to stay married to an alcoholic and remain sane and bring up their kids to be normal human beings who do not have major issues?!

As a kid growing up in an alcoholic home, I'd say no to the last part at least.

Growing up in that kind of dysfunction is just incredibly damaging.

It models addiction as a "solution" to pain, unreasonable compromise of needs from the sober partner to the addict,
denial of truth in the family, and that isn't even getting to the part where the addict directly hurts the child emotionally
when drinking either by anger, guilt, or ignoring them.

I'm a recovering alcoholic now, and I have intimacy issues due to being raised like that so I'm not the success story you are looking for,
unfortunately, but the number of posts you've been reading should be telling you the odds are certainly not in your kid's favor.

I know this is really really hard to hear, and I hope your partner chooses recovery instead of forcing you to a very difficult choice.

With an active alcoholic? No.

With a recovering alcoholic WORKING a recovery? Yes, I consider myself a success in progress. :)

DD11 has most certainly been affected (unavoidable) but she's not destroyed by any means.

That doesn't mean it can't change tomorrow. If either of us fall down on our recoveries, it'll hurt everyone. Part of *my* success is in trusting myself enough to know that I am always going to be ok no matter what surprises come my way, & that I'm teaching DD the same.

I am also an ACoA, my father was an alcoholic & drug addict. My mother's codependency is still suffocating & has often been more difficult to manage than dad's addictions. DD is my mini-me; she looks, walks, talks & thinks just like me - but in the ways that matter, she's the opposite of who I was at her age - confident, secure, open, authentic. The difference is due to being raised with BOTH parents in recovery & providing her with education & tools to manage the things that affect her, far earlier in life.

JMHO & I absolutely realize I'm in the minority on this.

With an active alcoholic not possible.

In recovery yes. However, I think it requires both spouses to be in recovery just as important to deal with codependency issues and out side of the street as the alcoholic side.

My husband and I are a success story. lots of work to get there.

It's a virtuous cycle with NO end , unless you change the ending . My story's pretty much like the other post's . Brought up by alcoholic parents , which in turn - I became one - which on turn - messed up my children life's .
Your children will either grow up resenting there father & or you for staying in it . Or worse ( if that's possible ) become just like him - thinking it's normal :(
Your the only one that can brake it . I know these are tough words , but it is what it is .

Nyinabo, I'm going to refer you to the following 2 places. I think reading these might change your thinking about what a "success story" really is.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...s-stories.html

And I especially like this one:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...s-stories.html

Maybe we can resurrect that 2nd one and get some new posts on it--I know there are many here who didn't see it the first time around and who definitely have something to add to it!

Ditto to what everyone else said above. And, the recovery phase is SO difficult. I have just lived 8 months of my life I never thought I would have lived. And, it isn't over YET.

I was coming back to do this same thing, :tyou.

Ny, the Success is in knowing your boundaries, honoring yourself, defining the life you want & going after it. Including your alcoholic partner means they have to be on board with all of that & work as hard for it, if not harder in some ways. But you can't *make* them want it. You can't control what that other person will or won't do & that's why it very, very often comes down to separation/divorce in order to having a shot at that happy life you've been visualizing when you are dealing with active addiction or a sober-but-not-recovering alcoholic. My success is that I got brave & took control of my life. (very different than the illusion of control I'd been living with.)

ShootingStar1's story is arguably one of the most enthralling, eloquent & inspiring stories you can possibly read here on SR.


http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rd-health.html


http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-choosing.html

FS, thanks for posting about Shooting Star^^--that is some seriously great stuff, and it makes the hair on my neck stand up every time I read it...

Again, I hope that those who are newer here and maybe haven't seen Shooting Star's posts the first time around will get a chance to look at them now. It is well worth the effort.

ME TOO! I got chills just skimming the threads to make sure I was linking the right posts!

I know that it is partly due to her way with words; but her compassion, determination & bravery as she forged forward into the uncertainty that she faced takes my breath away every time I read her story. She FOUND herself in all of this & I think that's the greatest gift any of us can receive in recovery. :grouphug:

I asked the same thing once I got here and realized the magnitude of the problem of alcoholism in my household.

My definition of success has changed substantially now that I am out of the situation.

I think we have to change our mindset from feeling like the success of the family has to mean 'the alcoholic recovers', to one of 'the family will be happy and healthy NO MATTER WHAT.' We already understand that means life without an active alcoholic in the picture..... Our downfall in this line of thinking is that if we wait long enough, they MIGHT get better when the fact is, we do not have to live with it TODAY.

Wanted to take the opportunity to include Wisconsin's amazing thread here, just in case the OP would miss it:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ess-story.html

Go go GO, Wisconsin! What a story, what courage, what a gal!!

It's astonishing the common patterns you learn. Usually they have grown up in an alcoholic environment. Its usually multi generational. It usually continues.

Its a crushing disease.

I think defining "success" is key to achieving it.

For me, with an active A, success right now is protecting my kids from his insanity, allowing his hurtful actions & words to bounce off me, and detaching with love by living each day in the moment.

Sometimes true success is breaking free and moving on. We don't have any control over another person's thoughts or actions, but our destiny lies within our own hands. Hugs to you & praying for your "success story" <3

Since I was in a painful relationship with someone verbally abusive, my success story was leaving. That and learning that I was never going to change the other person, he is who he is. Happiness is being with healthy, giving people. Children are the real victims since they have no choice. While I can learn to diminish the damage of an active alcoholic, they can't.

The bit about your DD is amazing to hear and so encouraging! Openness and providing kids with the tools they need to manage are almost as crucial as love I think.

Part of the reason I'm not too enthralled at the prospect of just getting up and leaving (which is very tempting I have to say) is that I am no angel. I have my own issues stemming from my own family which, although they are not as in-your-face as the alcoholism, are certainly as damaging. There is no guarantee that leaving my husband would ensure a happy stable childhood for my kids. From what I've seen so far (we're only 3 years into parenting) he provides them with what I lack and vice versa. I imagine that, if I left, the stress of trying to bring them up alone would bring out the worst in me and I would have defeated the object of leaving.

Does that make sense??

Knowing how your life is right now, since that is all you can depend on I have to ask why do you want to stay? What are the positives that are outweighing the negatives?

Thank you, I have read these already, that was partly what got me feeling so hopeless! I get that success looks different to everyone but almost everyone on this forum seems to have had no other choice in the end but leave... :(

If the alcoholic seeks true and lasting recovery, and you also work a recovery program, there is hope.

If what you're asking is can you have a happy family life living in the periphery of an active alcoholic
whose disease continues to progress (as it always does if they continue drinking) then I suppose you are right.

I am curious why you would think children, or a spouse could do more than survive in such a situation?
The person they are married to is an addict, and no longer a fully participating partner.

Marriage takes two.

When you say that it seems "better" for the kids to stay than it does to leave, you are also making that assessment based on how things are at this moment. Alcoholism is progressive, and it tends to progress slowly, by degrees. By the time you realize how bad things have gotten, a lot of damage can be done.

I'm not saying it's impossible for kids to grow up as reasonably happy, reasonably well-adjusted adults with an actively drinking alcoholic parent in the home. Based on what I've observed, the odds are heavily against it. I guess it comes down to Dirty Harry: "Do you feel lucky?"

None of us has a crystal ball--if we did, life and its many difficult decisions would be a lot easier.

You don't have to make any decisions this minute. But I think getting involved in Al-Anon could help clear your head so you can see what's going on with a clear head and make the best possible decisions when the time is right.

This is a good point. My mom "got rid of her problem" by leaving my dad, but did nothing about her own issues. Well, she claims not to have any, but that's another story. Leaving the environment is only one part of the equation.
My success story is that I got my children and myself away from an abusive alcoholic home and that I started working on the issues that led me to choose that relationship in the first place. Alanon has been very beneficial for me, along with therapy and reading and posting here at SR.
I also had to redefine what success meant, and my story is still in progress, but so far so good. The boys and I are definitely in a better place than we were a few years ago when active alcoholism was the dominant force in all of our lives.
I have personally known a couple of women in Alanon who remained in marriages with active alcoholics and were relatively content. Basically they live a totally separate life from their husband and have zero expectations of him or their marriage. They survive by practicing Defcon 5 level detachment. Not sure how their children fared, though.

Good question, since I haven't actually written this down for myself yet.

Positives:
Maybe a third of the time we are really very nice to each other (and indifferent to each other about another third of the time).
Our kids adore him and get many things from him that they don't from me...learning how to take risks, a lot of physical activity, patience and humour to name a few.
I get breaks from parenting...which make me a better parent.
I am learning detachment and how not to control people, which are essential in any relationship, and I might stop learning if I am no longer tested. Ok that one sounds a little like I'm scraping the barrel.

Negatives:
The last third of the time we are not very nice to each other.
The kids have seen ugly behaviour and big rows. My oldest shouts at my youngest (I know this is normal toddler behaviour but I do worry that she is learning her coping techniques from me).
I get the feeling I could have a better relationship than this. However this is not a given seeing as I also have my own issues which I need to do some serious work on.

That's all I can think of for now. The usual house, money bla bla bla don't really apply to me as I am financially independent and the house is in my name. Plus I don't really care about material things, I just want my children to be happy and healthy.

When I still lived with my mate, the following went on:
1. I drank with him in hopes that I could influence him into sobriety
2. I would have told you I was "happy," and genuinely believed that I was.
3. I would fantasize loading up what belongings I could manage and my cat into my 40 year old station wagon and leaving for Florida.
4. I would fantasize leaving in the middle of the night and fleeing to the country or my office.

Since I quit drinking (he still drinks), I see things a lot more realistically. One thing I am keenly aware of now is how nasty he is to me. I don;t know if this is worse, or if I didn't see it then due to my own drinking.

Do I still miss him? You bet! Do I think it would be good to go back under the circumstances? No, what for?

You describe your mate being nice about 30 percent of the time. Do you really want to live like this? Only you can decide.

Keep coming back. and thanks for sharing.

Actually if your child is shouting at the other in anger or frustration that is not normal toddler behavior. Our kids model our behavior. This will continue and worsen over time. It will also spillover into school behavior.

The kids are learning that mommy shouts, cries, bangs and nags.
Daddy, shouts, stomps, ignores ,belittles.

If they are boys they will learn that this is acceptable male behavior and either disdain you or pity you as weak and helpless.
If they are girls they learn that men are drunks and bullies and girls are helpless to this behavior. If you have one of each split it down the middle. That is what kids learn in an alcoholic home. I am an adult child of alcoholism and family dysfunction. I know all about how to be helpless, a victim, a martyr. I know all about how to put everyone including my parents before my own best self interest. I suffer from clinical depression and am a recovering alcoholic myself.

Ouch!! Reading this comment hurt!!!!

I don't mean to cause pain. Just sharing my own experiences as a wife, mother, adult child and recovering alcoholic.

we can't realistically cut people into thirds. or halves. or fifths.
that is called compartmentalizing and a trait of those who suffer abuse.

Compartmentalization is an unconscious psychological defense mechanism used to avoid cognitive dissonance, or the mental discomfort and anxiety caused by a person's having conflicting values, cognitions, emotions, beliefs, etc. within themselves.

Compartmentalization allows these conflicting ideas to co-exist by inhibiting direct or explicit acknowledgement and interaction between separate compartmentalized self states.

Honestly Nyinabo
To live with someone who's got this going on,
I'd have to have separate finances, separate spaces,
separate schedules, separate cars.

I even need "separate everything" to get along with my other who DOESN'T have any issues. Just the fact we need to do things our own way on our own time, we stay sane by remaining independent people.
When we get together and share space, share dinner, share money for groceries etc. we agree who pays for what and which thing we are going to do together. For all our other things, we do ourselves.

If it takes separate tracks to deal with two normal people, I can only imagine you need that to stay sane when the other person is unpredictable and an emotional roller coaster and drain.

For the kids, I would honestly treat it like raising the kids yourself, and the kids maintaining a relationship with someone who is like stuck in a hospital undergoing massive procedures. They need to have a connection and personal relationship with him, but all the conditions he is going through will keep them apart until he stabilizes all that.
Like having a loved on in the military and can't be in touch physically, but emotionally the love is still there, and the support to finish the stint they are going through.

I would not depend on this person except to go through their process, up and down, in and out, round and round. So I would set it up where you are prepared to support yourself and the kids on your own, similar to a single parent, and anything positive or normal you get from this guy is like icing on the cake. If someone is going through addiction and recovery that takes all their priority, so I would not count on or depend on that.

I would set it up where you can make it with or without him, regardless if he is coming or going, up or down, on or off the wagon.

Sorry you have to deal with this.

My mother was suddenly left with 6 kids to put through school and through college, when my dad suddenly collapsed from a stroke,
and she had to make it without any preparation, so I totally sympathize, respect and admire you and your kids for dealing with this the best you can. Just like a sick person in the hospital, I wouldn't count on him to be able to carry his own; so just make sure you can carry your own and then get help of family and friends with the kids until they can manage. We didn't do so well trying to make it, and my young siblings suffered terribly without our dad there, so it isn't going to be easy on the kids and anything you get is a bonus. With my dad, he wasn't able to be there AT ALL so the resentment over the loss affected the younger kids who didn't have as much time with dad during their most critical years and we never quite made up for that.

You can only do the best you can, and understand if he is sick he has got to get his own act together before he can function fully. So you are better off not expecting much from him, work it out yourself, and let him focus on getting himself straight first. Sorry for this, you have my sincerest prayers, support and respect and at least your kids will learn from you what responsibility is and how much they have to help and contribute as well to make it easier on you while he is unstable.

It's true, it hurts but it's true. Would you be ok with your kids settling for a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 type of relationship? I do believe that everyone gets to define what makes them happy, but there's a difference between "it works" & "it's good/happy". Do you know how thirds translates to kids? "In the middle of a problem" - "Getting over a problem" & "Getting ready to have a problem".

What you are describing is what my life WAS like, for a while. It's also part of why RAH & I spent 2.5 yrs living separately while he spiraled, unwilling to jump off the merry-go-round. Eventually I got fed up with accepting unacceptable behavior & hated what I was modeling in my behavior for DD. The confusion, the arguments, the stress, watching me always reacting - ugh. She was about 5.

It's been a long road for us - finally into recovery 2 yrs he relapsed ridiculously & I realized he'd been playing an amazing game of pretend - saying all the right things but none of the underlying, root behaviors had changed. But in his relapse he finally found humility so the almost 2 yrs since then has been much more uphill..... slow but steady for both of us because I'd been facing my ACoA issues in many ways alongside it as well. (Educating myself brought new understanding, making me bring out some of that crap & shine a different light on it.)

The biggest unknown is the progression - how fast for him? How much warning between "stages"? How much will you go through on the way there... dui's, lost job opportunities - this board is filled with experiences of rapid change in so-called HFA's. I've seen it IRL so many times - watching my stepdad go through it right now. Is your Plan B strong enough for the unpredictable? THOSE are the questions that have no answers but that you have to face. (((((hugs))))

He isn't an active alcoholic but neither is he a recovering alcoholic. He is not in any groups and he doesn't want to be. His behaviour is sometimes still like that of an alcoholic and I think this is what is called a dry drunk??
Can behaviour improve just by not drinking? Or is a program always needed?