When will I stop being surprised with the lack of compassion?
 

Why is it that AH can still amaze me with his lack of compassion and self centered thoughts? I have known this man forever and while he has always been self centered he used to be compassionate. That lack of compassion left slowly over many years, and I am not sure when it was gone from our relationship. I assume it is his addiction that makes him that way. I'm sure I had something to do with it to with my codie behavior. BUT it really stings.

For the first time in my life I am trying to understand me and why I act the way I do. I so want to find peace and get out of this life time fog of being a codie sucked into the illness of alcoholism. I have been in therapy, started Alanon, and read Codepence No More. In the past 5 weeks or so I have entered this period of being quiet (which is not like me at all) while I am trying to figure out who I am, and who I need to be. I reached a point in our relationship where I do not know what is genuine vs. what is part of his "dance".... Which in turn has created distance between us both emotional and physical. I feel it is the natural consequence of his addiction and I think for the first time I am actually letting it be instead of reaching out to him in hopes of making it all better. I am trying to let go of the fear that comes with letting it be. About a month ago I sat him down and told him where I was at, that I needed to heal myself, that I did not know if his "nice actions" were genuine or part of this merry go round that I need to stop. I felt like it was a good discussion and he understood where I was coming from.

I thought things were going okay (and I say okay because I longed for a hug, or a kiss or some communication from him that had feeling behind it). One night right before we went to sleep he said to me that he felt alone. So many thoughts raced through my head ( the codie in me so wanted to rescue him from feeling this way, but I also thought what he was saying may have nothing to do with actual feelings but really that he missed sex... then there was the hopeful side that maybe he was actually trying to reach out to me and he was kind of getting it). I simply responded with "me too". It was such a genuine response from me, it was how I have felt (alone) for so long. I waited hoping he would say more, but all he did was roll over and go to sleep.

Over the past few days he brought this up and was so angry with me for not saying or doing more! I simply pointed out he did not either and that too made me sad. A few days later he wanted to moved our savings over to another bank. I bravely asked him to please show me that once the money was moved that I had access to it. This set him off. How dare I think that he would do something not okay with the money. I pointed out that things are so great right now and I needed to protect myself and to make sure. I proceed to get raked over the coals about how well I was distancing myself, how I only wanted him for his paycheck, how when I told him "me too" after he told me he was lonely was to really say "f off" and that I don't care about him, etc. There was zero compassion for me, no thoughts what so ever about how I was feeling at all. I was simply a b*tchy wife who only wanted him for money. Has his brain really become that toxic???! I told him my thoughts with as little words as I could which sent him walking away. I left shortly thereafter for my alanon meeting (thank god). We went to lunch after (thought the whole family was going or else I would have declined) and he sat there like the argument never happened. While he didn't say much, what he did say was rather calm and rational. It is just crazy to me.

I have given him YEARS to "get better" and find recovery and now that I am realizing how sick I am too and trying to get better I get nothing from him. No compassion, no patience, no emotional support.... how selfish! and yet I don't think he has the ability to even realize it.

I so want us to be one of those happily ever after stories. It is so hard when you really love someone so much to think it may never happen.

The future seems so scary.... I hate where I am at emotionally right now!

From what you wrote in your post, his behaviour seems more like that of a child throwing a tantrum because things are not the way he wants them to be. You have slowly changed your modus operandi and are no longer playing the role he scripted for you: the role of doting enabler. You are shifting the focus from HIM to YOU for the first time in years. He is clearly sensing this change and is reacting to it, trying to make you feel guilty for it.

Yes, there's lack of compassion in his self-centeredness. It's probably been there for a long time but you were so focused on him that you didn't notice it until now.

I'm sorry this period feels so unstable for you emotionally; please try to remind yourself that it will pass and that you are currently in transition, towards...something different. Change usually involves some amount of discomfort, but no one ever died from being uncomfortable.

Trust in HP. You're in good hands!

During these times I kept needing to ask myself: What am I getting out of this relationship? My answer was always NOTHING. It hurts to feel you give give and give but recieve nothing.

I just re-read you did say you get nothing out of him. Right there, now what's the plan?

((((Alone2)))),

It's so frustrating wanting something that we know we can't get. Compassion isn't something my husband has given me for quite some time... probably over a year now if I really thought about it.

I spoke to him yesterday about why I was sleeping in the guest bedroom, and why I wanted to have time alone with the kids without him around. I want these things because I'm hurt and stressed out and uneasy being around him right now. I need my space because it hurts like hell to sit and watch him be so loving and compassionate to the kids, and talk to other like everything is fine... and to know that he will not treat me with the same kindness. NOpe, what I get from him is cold, quiet distance. The silent treatment so that it's like I don't even exist. I told him that it hurts me, and so I need to protect myself.

His response? Invalidate my feelings. He told me that I was being ridiculous and that I should just suck it up for the kids. The four of us need to be together so they see we are a family.

Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. I can't put on an act of being happy in front of the kids while he's over there being all loving, happy to them, and turning and glaring at me. I explained that again, and then realized - he's not going to get it. He wants what he wants, and he has zero compassion for me, and the pain I'm in. And maybe some of his distance is because he's hurting too, I don't know.

All I know is that my expectations (wanting compassion/love from him) are setting me up for hurt. When I need TLC - I don't reach out to him, I reach out to the people I know who can give me what I want/need. My true friends, and healthy family members (not too many of them, unfortunately!!!).

Stop going to the hardware store looking for bread... it's not there.

Lots of similarities to my husband. I have come to realize that he doesn't care about how I feel at all. He, too, says I only want him for his paycheck. Any affection or "love" he may show me is because he simply wants sex. He gauges the health of our marriage on how often we have sex. I could be the saddest person ever and as long as I pretend to be happy and have sex with him, he is okay with that. I am not, though.

I can totally relate! My husband seems to think that as long as we have sex, there's nothing wrong with our marriage. When he does something stupid or says something cruel, my not wanting to have sex is completely blamed on me ("You've always been this way and you'll never change"). When he's unhappy, it's my fault and if I don't jump through hoops to try to improve it, then he's cold and distant.

I'm really trying to sit with that now, to believe that things are as they are and that I should focus on meeting my needs.

Yes, my AH says if I don't have sex with him, I am using sex as a punishment and that is not fair to do in a marriage because I am the only person he can have sex with...WTF!!!

I am not punishing him. I just don't like him. If I don't feel an emotional connection with him I have a hard time being physically close. I am to the point now where the thought of it makes me ill. If you love someone...why would you say mean and hurtful things to them? I truly feel that he is trying to beat me down. He is always miserable and he wants me to be just as miserable. It has come to this in our marriage. Having sex with him is like giving a baby a pacifier. You give it to them to make them stop whining and crying.:c021:

On the other hand, if you love someone...why would the thought of sex with them make you ill?

It doesn't sound much like love to me, on either side. I say this as someone whose 20-year marriage went down a similar path. There are different kinds of love, IMO. I still love my XAH as a human being, as the father of my children. But, as a husband and life partner--NO WAY.

L

Bingo. That's me. I am right there. I love him as the father of my children, but do not want him as my husband.

Very good point LaTeeDa. If my husband chose to be nice, responsible, mature, pleasant, helpful, etc. for....oh....let's say....7 days, yes....a full week, I just might be interested in sex with him. Now, I would prefer this to occur on a daily basis, but it just doesn't. The reality is....he does his thing, goes fishing, talks on cell phone nonstop, sits in recliner all evening watching what he wants to watch on tv, etc. There is no connection between he and I or him and the kids. I don't even know if he knows they are in the same house to be honest. But, when he decides he wants sex....he will just appear in the bathroom when I get out of the shower and expect it....and we may not have barely even talked to each other all evening. I just don't get it. (Or should I say HE just doesn't get it!) Literally!!

My point is that his loving caring side only comes out when he wants sex. You see, he is only "nice" because he wants something. And, apparently, he can't plan ahead a week and plan for sex next Wed by starting to be nice now. J/k...the 7 day thing is not a rule I have or anything...just using it as an example.

And, the lack of sex in the marriage makes him very angry. His anger leads to harsh words which leads to me pulling away even more.

Sounds like a miserable way to live. For all involved. (especially the kids)

L

I'm with you there - one week with no outbursts or hurtful utterances, and sex sounds like a good idea. Otherwise, just get away from me!

What really gets me today is hearing - again - the same behaviors from other women who are complete strangers to me. Baffling, this disease of alcoholism. Baffling that it turns people into this. Baffling that it warps the mind so much to protect the addiction, even after they stop drinking. The brain is still in "protect the addiction" mode for my RAH and its been close to 5 months sober (so he says). But he is still looking to scapegoat and blame in order to accept full responsibility for his own actions and choices.

I know alcoholism is tied to ego - and much of this is kind of behavior is ego-based...but what I will always wonder is why choose the hard way? If you look back at each of these posts - and the hundreds and possibly thousands of these very same sentiments on this forum, and the stories in AL-Anon...these relationships could be so easily fixed and these men could get exactly what they wanted IF THEY CHANGE THEIR OWN APPROACH to it all. Take responsibility, make amends when you are wrong, pay attention to what others are saying, have compassion, put others' best interests first sometimes, find your own happiness, and on and on and on. All the things we do to take care of ourselves as grown-ups. Just do it. It's the easy road - the road to contentment. Imagine the energy spent on maintaining the lies, the anger, the blame, the facade. Then imagine putting that same amount of energy toward improving your family, relationships, career, health, etc. I don't understand the choice to go the hard way. Except that it protects the addiction and allows for future opportunities to go right back there.

Insidious. Baffling. Insanity. Hurtful. Sad.

This thread reminds me alot of the thread "Do Alcoholics really love us". I personally don't think they love us. They pretend so that they can continue to live the way they want. Its all a facade. Therefore, that's why they show no compassion. They are not emotionally available while in active addiction. This is just my opinion.

Are they emotionally available when not in active addiction? My RAH has not drank for 1.5 years. It seems to me his addiction to alcohol is the result of trying to self medicate himself or to numb himself to whatever is going on inside. Now that he has removed the alcohol...he is even more difficult, critical and angry than he was when he was drinking. I find him to be completely emotionally unavailable.

This is all I ask. I want him to put his energy into being a mature, responsible adult rather than the self-centered ass that is always blaming EVERYONE else for every little thing that he considers to be wrong in his life. That's all. Simple.

And how long have you been asking that? And how many times has he answered with his actions that he isn't interested in doing things your way?

At some point it becomes less about them not doing what we want and more about us continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.......

L

If he was self-medicating underlying issues, he should probably address those issues and find out the true root of his pain. That may be the reason why he is still emotionally unavailable. I was watching the show Intervention and it said something like 60% of addicts have underlying issues that they try to cover up with drugs or alcohol. One girl was a meth addict and when she got clean, they discovered in rehab that she had bi-polar disorder. She was using meth to medicate being bi-polar. Many others on the show drank or did drugs to cover up their childhood (such as being raped, molested, beaten, abused, etc). I'm no expert, but this is my opinion. Some are covering up other issues that make them emotionally unavailable even after they quit drinking.

the centreness is called the I.S.Ms....(I, Self and Me)...its always about them(the As) and also his arrogance....its all about him...always...that is why al anon is great for this...

the A's feels entilled freedom from the accountability..dunno who said this, but sure did open my eyes and mind....

I've been living with my ABF for three years now, and I can say he is the complete opposite of my first husband who was abusive, and a complete friggen nutter. Thing is, my first husband was NOT an alcoholic, and he sounds exactly like the men described in this thread. In my humble opinion, the alcohol my contribute to abusive behavior, but an abuser is an abuser drunk or sober.

this IS who he is.....he is showing you on a daily basis EXACTLY who he is, he's advertising it loud and clear. i've yet to see a world class jerk magically transform into a nice guy. if you stopped putting so much energy into wishing and wanting for HIM to change, what ELSE could you do with all that free time?

Ohhh, Anvilhead....I remember your wise words when I was here quite regularly about 2 years ago. Crazy isn't it? That I am still hoping he will change. My therapist is trying to get to this point too. Why am I still here? What am I waiting for? My answer to her???? "For some reason I keep thinking that one day he will wake up and be the husband and father that we want him to be".

Crazy.......

WOW I leave for a therapy session and have some lunch and come back to all of this! Thank you!!!!

This topic was what we discussed in therapy today. Her words of advise and education to me was there must be something deep inside my AH (any A) that he needs to address in order for him to become healthy. Sometimes they are never able to be honest with themselves or their therapist on what is hurting them so much. We discussed how I am struggling with his lack of compassion and self centered behavior. How one minute he seems like a rational, calm person who understands where I am coming from and the next minute acting like a teenager with crazy accusations. She advised it was a mixture of his alcoholic behavior (which will come and go), the change in the dynamics of our relationship (I am focused on me now, and not being a codie) and how he wants to pull me back into the unhealthy dynamic because that is what is comfortable for him. She helped me to focus back on me. Set the boundary and know what to say and when to talk away from it.

BUT what I am struggling the most with right now this is the intimacy/sex stuff. I do not want to be his pacifier and I am tired of feeling used. Just like those who posted here, what I get is the "nice guy" when he wants sex and if he doesn't get it ,I get the teenager who is angry and spews self centeredness. The in between times I get a detached lump who pays little attention to me, that is on edge and usually grumpy. So now that I am understanding more and more of what being a A does to relationships, how I have been a codie and how that affects things, and I want to end the merry go round, how am I to know what is genuine love and what is more of the same crap? I guess time will tell. To me genuine love is patient and kind. Genuine love wants to hold your hand and hug you just for the sake of doing it. Genuine love does not want you to feel used and will work with you to ensure you don't feel that way. Can a person be an active A and show this type of genuine love? Can I develop the ability to know when it is the alcoholism talking and not be taken in by it? Who knows how this will all play out but for me I have to take the chance that by some miracle I can build some sort of relationship with my AH where I feeling good about me, where I will be able to see his genuine love, and detach from the rest.

SO spot on! The reason they do not chose the easy path is in your last sentence. Protecting their ability to drink comes first, even if it cost them tons of great sex and a loving relationship! Wonder if they even realize it? I bet if you asked any man (an A or not) if they would rather have great sex or booze they would ALL choose sex! The reality for an A is they are choosing the other! I bet the men who have great sex lives choose the easy path as stated above!

The thing is, you can never get inside someone elses head. So, you will never know for sure what's going on between his ears. You can only go by what you want and need in a relationship. If you aren't getting what you want or need, then you can ask for it. But, that doesn't automatically mean you will get it. If you don't get it, then you have to decide whether to change your requirements, or change the relationship. Because changing him to suit you is not an available option.

L

Oh this made me remember... me, lol, I did not pay attention to what many others were saying about who I chose to be with... and I certainly didn't find my own happiness.... and didn't take care of myself either... and now that I am starting to do that, yes it is easier than I thought and it IS the road to contentment.... and I am starting to put energy to my own career, health etc and its certainly a much better use!! but I was doing all that as an addict to suffering and because I was used to feeling abandoned and worthless. How much better way to feel like that than going out with an alkie??

Alone 22,

This lack of compassion issue is huge. Are they capable of showing compassion? It so messes with our codie psyche don't you think?
Like.. if maybe they would show us the proper compassion,respect, loveetc.
if we deserved it.
Well we do deserve it. And if they were capable of giving us anything that didn't directly or indirectly benefit them they would! (Just my opinion)
And it is not because of who we are, it is about who they are. And we do not need to fix ourselves (except in how we interact with them) they need to fix themselves!

My anger is up because I just came down with a whopper of a cold and cough..fever the whole nine. And do you think I ever even got so much as a glass of water brought to me? HELL NO.

I will finally be leaving soon, and am grateful in a way that his actions are as such, because while his words might be enough to confuse me here and there,
his actions will always bring me back to reality.

As for this sex issue.... I've been telling my AH for years that the only time he's nice to me is when he wants sex. So the way I handle it is when I want some... I go get it from him. He's treated me like an object for years, so I'm just modeling what I have learned. (probably not the healthiest idea, but it works for me right now.)

What I have come to understand is that I can not change him and I have stopped trying to. What I can change is my thoughts and actions and then to see how that changes the relationship we have. It may makes things better, it may not change things at all or it could make it worse. Up until this point I have not been as genuine as I could have been (due to being a codie) and that was not fair to either of us. Alcoholics need to face the consequences of their behavior and the way I acted did not allow him to face this in our relationship. To ease tension, to not have a major argument I would pacify him. I believed that it was part of being a "good" wife. There were times in there also where the sex was great and I did feel loved and not simply used. The reality is I think it made him feel as if things were better (for men they express love with sex, right). SO status quo continued. As his illness progressed he became more detached, more irritable and much more difficult to be around. It make it harder for me to pacify him, because I was feeling more used, and deeply hurt by how he was behaving. The good sex was less and less because to have good sex I needed to feel attached and loved. When and if I feel attached again, when I feel loved again, then I will have sex. I know this may never happen and I know I can not control or change him, but he can. If this change happens I think I will feel it in my gut. If it doesn't at least I will be a healthier me and can continue to make good choices of what I need in my life.

Very well said, Alone22. Your situation mirrors mine. It is my biggest problem right now. I know that if I pacify him, his anger towards me will lighten up. And with alot of sex, it would possibly even diminish. But....I would feel used and unappreciated if I did pacify him. As I have said in another post, he gauges the health of our marriage simply on how often we have sex. Period. Nothing else is factored in.