Oh tjp..bringin back memories..how about this..

AD.."I need you to give me the money you owe me for my car"
me.."Umm you took money from me and OWE me money from the car"
AD.."I need that money! You never do anything for me..you'd let me sleep under a bridge!"
This was after we spent 20 grand on rehabs and getting her set back up at home..like a month after, we never do ANYTHING for her
me..no response

yes I would let her sleep under a bridge if that is what she needed to do to feel the consequences of her actions

When I heard the disease talking, the conversation would immediately end.

I know you want to have a nice conversation with your son, but it's sounds like right now, you aren't going to get that.Accepting that may be the best way to deal rather than trying to make it pleasant when it really has no chance to be..the disease is talking now.

These are GREAT examples of detachment with love.

Yes, you start by recognizing it is the disease talking. You can't reason with, nor cheer up, the disease. The disease will say or do whatever it has to, to survive.

Think of a cancer. It can only live by slowly killing the body that enables it to live. This disease is out to kill your son, and you, if it needs to, in order to survive.

To further the cancer analogy, chemotherapy is no picnic for the patient (nor for the patient's loved ones). It makes the patient sick, depressed, the hair falls out, the immune system is compromised for awhile. It's tough for loved ones to watch, but everyone knows it's necessary to kill the cancer so the patient can live free of the disease that was killing him or her.

So, think of the nasty words and manipulations as just symptoms of the disease. I used to "de-fang" mean words by thinking of them as a script. I'd play little mind games with myself, trying to guess whether the next mean/manipulative statement out of the alcoholic's mouth would be #15 or #22 on the script. They are SOOOO predictable.

When you think of it this way, you can safely ignore the manipulations. What you CAN'T do is to reason with them or argue with them, and it's really pointless to get upset with them or allow them to hurt you. It's all B.S. from the disease, just like an oozing sore.

I left home when I was 16. I could say I slept in a park for several days but it was more like dozing. I was too scared to really sleep in the dark out there. I did that during the day when I felt safe somewhere. I found a better path pretty fast.

Yes, that is terrible, but that person could have easily overdosed in the parents house and it would not have been any better. We are not protecting addicts when we give them the comforts of home..we are conributing and prolonging their disease.
The facts are..some people will get better, some won't, some will die. Those that die sometimes are enabled to death. I couldn't contribute to that sad,sick lifestyle of my daughters........

Excellent reminder, keepinon.

thank you,
hug
chicory