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Is it normal?

Old 02-23-2011, 03:11 PM
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Is it normal?

Is it typical for families of an a to think that the a will never get help, and never change? Or do we feel like that because we know our a, and we think he can't do it, just like we (I) have enabled him, thinking he cant take care of his self?
Just wondering.

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Old 02-23-2011, 03:15 PM
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IMO, Yes. To both.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:29 PM
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I think it is normal to think that way because we can see what is happening over time. I never thought my eldest son would stop but he has. I never thought my sister would stop, she did because she died from it. I now have a dilema of my other son now, do I think he will stop....I pray so.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:21 PM
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(((L2L))) and (((Justjo)))

thank you for replying girls. love to both of you.
so good to have this place.
Justjo, i read your post yesterday, about your son. I would recommend a quick confrontation about this, cause my son is what you get when you let it go on and on and on, thinking it is not going to get worse, and that it has to get better.

now, i am finding that I never quite accepted that my s is an a. not deep in my soul. but now i do, and it is very sobering (no pun intended- just a freudian slip i guess)

Justjo, i know this hurts you so much, and i am sad for you. but people do change, and people do get clean of drugs and alcohol. i would imagine that you know what to do, from being a part of this site for a while. you have lots of support here, too.
what is going on with him today?

l2l and justjo, you are good friends.

love
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:33 PM
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Love you too Chick,

Yes I have learnt so much from this site, but the human girly in me, comes out sometimes :rotfxko

My son hasnt come home yet, so I havent seen him. He knows its my day off today from work, so I may not.

The hard part is trying to talk to him, he becomes defensive and loud, and doesnt want to talk about it. Im thinking when I see him I will ask him if we can have a sit down talk and be honest with each other. Im going to suggest rehab. Wish me luck JJ
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by justjo View Post
Love you too Chick,

Yes I have learnt so much from this site, but the human girly in me, comes out sometimes :rotfxko

My son hasnt come home yet, so I havent seen him. He knows its my day off today from work, so I may not.

The hard part is trying to talk to him, he becomes defensive and loud, and doesnt want to talk about it. Im thinking when I see him I will ask him if we can have a sit down talk and be honest with each other. Im going to suggest rehab. Wish me luck JJ
justjo, I am sending all the hopeful healing power vibes that I can muster. dont know where i am getting them from but I am sending them anyway. I hope that he will sit with you and that his heart will be moved to do that.

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Old 02-23-2011, 04:58 PM
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I thought my sister in law would NEVER stay clean..been 13 years..I found myself to be very arrogant when I would begin to even guess at what others were capable of..it's usually so much more than I thought..
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by keepinon View Post
I thought my sister in law would NEVER stay clean..been 13 years..I found myself to be very arrogant when I would begin to even guess at what others were capable of..it's usually so much more than I thought..
What I meant was that for my part, I am afraid- afraid he wont ever be happy and healthy. not that I am passing some sort of character judgement. some in the family do, however, and I understand, as they have just never seen anything but selfish behavior from him.

I read a lot of the posts by recovering a's here, and it is very interesting, the things they went through as practicing a's, and I admire the strength and the courage that many of them show, in pursuing their recovery. The faith they show, by continuing to move through the miserable first weeks sober. Perhaps that also shows how miserable their lives were, while drinking, to find the getting sober , with its withdrawals, preferable. God bless them. I think it is so wonderful, the way they can come here, and find support and encouragement, to keep going, through the toughest times.

Thanks Keepinon,
I have been telling myself that he is capable of so much more. His dad told me today that he thinks that s will just be a homeless bum, never able to make it. I wrote him back, and asked him if s was told that if he did not get a job and keep it, that he would go directly to jail, does he think he could do it? I think so! so, he is doing this, just cause he can. and cause he has never been forced to solve his own problems. some mental issues , but I think mostly selfish, lazy, and an alcoholic.
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:05 PM
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I have flaws, imperfections, things I need to do work on.
If somebody told me that they have no confidence in my ability to change the things I need to, I would be offended.
I imagine a drinker feels the same way.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by brokenheartfool View Post
I have flaws, imperfections, things I need to do work on.
If somebody told me that they have no confidence in my ability to change the things I need to, I would be offended.
I imagine a drinker feels the same way.
Thanks B, I needed to hear this tonight. Think I may be guilty of this very thing, and you know what - it got turned back on me and -touche- it was offensive! Ha ha. Ok, I get it.

Its still hard to have faith when you've been dragged through the muck for a while. I still feel like I have that muck stuck under my fingernails! Think I need to focus on that and quit focusing on what my A is doing or not doing.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:58 PM
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how well have your fears served you Chicory? I know mine never helped me...
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by keepinon View Post
how well have your fears served you Chicory? I know mine never helped me...
My fear isn't helping this situation at all. Just keeps me stuck.

I feel I am being held responsible for "keeping" my son here, in some peoples opinions. Reflecting on that yesterday, I have to say my son is equally responsible for being here, and actually, he is USING me more easily than he could anyone else, cause I am his mom and love him.

So, I do not agree that I am keeping him here, tho I am letting him stay here. my love for my son keeps me in this situation, but it is hurting him, which I have totally accepted. and must act on.

Its almost like i am a hostage. I would love NOTHING more in the world, than for him to leave and be on his own. He will be in a bad way when he does have to leave, but that is what it's gonna take for him to face facts. He cant do it here, that is obvious. He gets worse and so do I.

I never wanted him to come here, but he had no where to go, and it is unnatural not to feel frantic when a son or daughter is in need of food and shelter. at least it is for me. i have been desperate before and know how terrible it is. BUT, this is a life or death situation for my son, I know that now. He needs to feel the consequences of his choices- of drinking- of not looking for work hard enough- of hurting his self and others.

My fear is that my son will not have a life, but i am having faith that many here know what a person in his shoes needs, and what may work, and it makes sense to me. this has not worked in anyones favor. My dysfunction has allowed this for too long, but when you dont know any thing about parenting, you dont do things right sometimes. my a parents sure did not give me any tools for this job, and i have had to wing it. not easy with a stubborn willful son who is much smarter than me and pushes my buttons of guilt and fear. he is very very good at manipulation.

and that fear- well- it just immobilizes me. it's gotta go.

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Old 02-24-2011, 04:15 AM
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Ya know, Chicory,

I'm one of those people who always felt if I wasn't in fear and worrying that I wasn't "doing my job". It was almost superstitious, the way I felt if I worried enough that it would somehow make a difference in whatever it was I worried about.

Instead, it paralyzed me into inaction, kinda like it has you. It only made me suffer, and it kept me from focusing on other things that could actually have a positive impact on my life.

Letting go of fears is an amazing feeling, once you get the hang of it. You discover that events occur, and unfold, as they will and realize that no amount of worrying would have helped the situation. Sometimes the events that happen are not pleasant, and sometimes they are wonderful. But we can watch them with a degree of detachment, knowing that they are out of our ability to control.

I've gotten a LOT better at this recently, and it takes a huge weight off my shoulders.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:30 AM
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not only do I think it's normal; but sometimes I think my a is never going to stay well and that he has no bottom. It's happened so many times.
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:37 AM
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Wish u luck and God Bless you. I know how it feels. I have been there many times
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Old 02-24-2011, 01:47 PM
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[QUOTE=chicory;2876166]I feel I am being held responsible for "keeping" my son here, in some peoples opinions. Reflecting on that yesterday, I have to say my son is equally responsible for being here, and actually, he is USING me more easily than he could anyone else, cause I am his mom and love him.

So, I do not agree that I am keeping him here, tho I am letting him stay here. my love for my son keeps me in this situation, but it is hurting him, which I have totally accepted. and must act on.

Well..he IS using you, but YOU are letting him..that's what enabling is..addict/alcoholics get their needs met..bottom line. He has burned through everyone else.
Also you say it is natural to panic when a crisis arises with our addicted children..I used to react to everything and lived from crisis to crisis with my daughter..then one day she was having a self induced "crisis" (actually a consequence of her addiction) and I just thought.."This isn't my problem"I cannot tell you the freedom I got out of not reacting, running in to save her, etc.Those consequences..the PAIN is what spurred her to get help..oh it wasn't right away, but when she was left holding the bag time after time..she got sick and tired.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:58 PM
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I am so sick and tired, of it all.
Tonight, he is acting hateful, and pacing and doing things that he thinks I will react to. He spent whatever he got from his income tax on some beer, and i am sure vodka (as I tasted the glass next to his computer to see). he spent the week pretty buzzed, and was sleeping most of the time I was home from work. guess he had his little parties while i was working. drinking, and having his self some good old relief.
well, now he is out of money, cigarettes, and he has been leaving his empty tobacco package around, where i will "see it and get the message". i am sick and tired of doing anything for him that he wont do. or even make a [email protected]@ed effort at.
I used to buy him tobacco (go on and say it) if he was doing anything toward helping his self. which has not been much, for the economy, quack quack quack.
he has this little can of nasty bits of ends of his smokes and lots of ash and puts it in his pipe and smokes it, and has this nice little nagging cough, that he has had.
so now, he says, "I gotta do something about this pipe, it is killing me, or someting to the effect of "I need tobacco".
ok, so what is not codie to say at this point? I said,"you should have spent money on tobacco instead of booze. " to which he replies, " you stole my refund, owe me, blah blah" since i claimed him as a deduction, since i supported him since may. 8 months. he didnt even work enough to get much back, and if he had claimed his self, he would still be drinking and i would not be able to fix my truck, or recoup some of the money that i have spent helping him. i have helped pay his fines, before he got that job of the month, and paid some his self.
he is angry, and slamming stuff, and basically I feel like i am being badgered. he will probably go out and kick his truck or hit it, while i am in bed, waking me. he will stand at my door, and say taunting insults, to get his way. i imagine he is withdrawing from his week of light drunken ness. maybe he wont act this badly, but i dread the night, in case he gets frantic without smokes. he might suck it up , but i dont know.

he can get on his bike and go pick up butts, as far as i am concerned. he has done that before. i feel like a prisoner. and i really want to get him out of here. but you need a way to do it, if they arent doing anything illegal. this is why i need so badly to get strong, and get him out. it is nearly spring and i am looking forward to peace and to feel human again.

He has always been pretty much this selfish. and i dont know how i even care enough about him to let him be here. What do you do, in this situation? how do you detach, in the face of an emotional battering? are other alcoholics mean and hateful and like this to others?
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:06 PM
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I feel so bad for you, chicory, but I really don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said. I KNOW how hard it is because I've had to do it. But nothing is going to change if nothing changes. We're not talking about a 18 or 19 year old kid here. We're talking about a man approaching middle age. He is NOT going to change as long as he is living there. Until you gather the strength to make him leave, I'm afraid it's just going to continue to be more of the same. I'm sorry.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:31 PM
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Disconnect the TV and the internet. Those will be some consequences he will FEEL and give him 30 days to get out.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:58 PM
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I know that this makes me seem like a crazy person who likes misery, but honestly, I am a victim of his selfishness, and he has had many victims over the years. I am not writing this stuff to get sympathy, but just to have someone to share this hard stuff with.
I know how it is here, when someone does not seem to take advice, and people get tired of hearing their crying. but this is my own son, my flesh and blood, and I have the bad habit of pitying him, when i think of him having no where to live. I am trying to not see it as such a terrible thing, for him to have to stay at a shelter. It is a roof, and he will be expected to do things. He will not have the luxury of being a selfish lazy person, and he may get some self respect.

I am sorry if i seem to be whining. i promise that is not what i am doing. i am truly near a bottom myself and i guess i should not post about this until something changes. i am pi$$ed to be in this situation. I do not deserve it. But I set myself up for it, by trying to help him, and wanting him to have a warm home instead of being hungry on the street, a chance to get on his feet.Too bad he did not appreciate it.
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