Beth you can call me whatever you want.:) Just don't call me late to dinner.

Well you guys know tons more about this stuff than I do. And probably know more about myself than I do as I come here, barf things out and then go back to my struggling life. I should read through some of my old posts. Hell I should steal them (from myself I guess) for my memoir.

See?!? Grandiose thinking!

Damn. Well, I've researched, and been diagnosed PTSD, but knew nothing about the narcissist traits except what I read last night. It was scary. I have been feeling quite anxious and frightened a lot lately anyway about a number of things but this stuff with the business partner is exhausting. She literally calls me every day with updates on her life, which is fine, that's what friends are for. She takes things I say so out of context, gets so worked up if she thinks I'm "talking down to her." Here, here is part of one of her oh so lengthy emails:
Riiiigghhht. Everyone but me.

The next excerpt is her response when I tried to illustrate what a complete control freak she is, so much so that she interrupts me, tries to answer questions for others, and recently told me she would have to couch me on how to talk to a new potential partner. She's totally misconstrued the whole thing. I never said a word to her about it, didn't get mad at the time at all, didn't fly off the handle. None of it. She made this up. She's ******* crazy and as long as I try to understand it, or communicate about it with her, I will be too.

This is insane! Thank god I've had others around at times to witness her melt downs and demands, otherwise I would doubt myself even more.

She flipped out on me at the beginning of October, literally screamed at me while I was driving because i took a wrong turn. We had traveled out of state and I didn't know where I was. I reacted badly because she had been insane for hours--accusing me of stealing her lighter, raging about all sorts of things.

We had a knock down drag out at that point after she screamed at me. I stopped the car, got out and opened her door and told her to get out. She did not. I said, "that's it. You and I are going to have it out right her and right now until you shut the **** up. You have to stop treating me this way."

She then had a huge meltdown, screaming at me because she said she felt like my "slave," and I was "grandstanding, " while she stood on the sidelines holding my briefcase. She still brings this up when I push her to STFU and act like a grown up. She has giant melt downs.

This was when i spoke at the Capitol in Madison. Now,in the context of narcissism, it all seems to make sense. I hated speaking in front of thousands of people, it was so stressful. I had told her months before to write up her own speakers bio so she could speak as well about business, but she said hers wouldn't be as good as mine and never wrote it up, never submitted it to the hosting organization so she could be a speaker. She tried to get me to write it for her but I am getting sick of her doing that-calling me and saying, "I need you to look up and text me the phone number for this," or " I need you to do that."

God! She is a nightmare! I have just tried to deal with her.

And since I sent her my last email telling her she needs a good mirror and it's not my job anymore and we will only have a professional relationship, she has texted me, called me begin all sweet. **** her.

But it is the list, that bullet point list of every part of my life I have confided in her about over the last two months that is the last straw for me. What a fantastic score keeper, it's amazing she remembered them all like that. She regurgitated it all back to me framed as me raging at her? It's so bizarre. Really? I called her weeping because I feel like a bad mom, and somehow that's raging at her.

I really need to disengage. Thank you all for listening, for letting me process. I hvae some expericne with this from AH so I know that once I get enough evidence, it's essential I turn away, stop trying to engage and just accept she is dangerous to my mental health..

yes. Take the kids sledding. Do more Christmas shopping. Thank the heavens for another day..

transformyself, remember "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
Often times mental illness is one of the only illnesses that will not tell the sufferer they are sick.

Phoenix

Yes, pheonix, I know, I already feel bad enough about it. Now I have to sort out how to end my professional relationship with her because there's no way I'm going to continue working with her. There is no seperation of personal and professional with her, all though she'll swear there is.

Reading old posts (or past pages in a journal) is always a great start to setting boundaries, transform. I find it easier to see patterns that way and a bit of distance often makes things that were irrelevant at the time increase in importance.

okay, this is insanity. you are frustrating her and making her life difficult because you dont like to hear "i'm going to kill you."?
just because others put up with it, that does not mean you do transform.
i can't imagine in any professional capacity one person threatening to kill another.
and the way i grew up (and maybe you too) this is a definite threat./
it is not cute or funny or something to deal with because Honi and mother deal with it,
it is disturbing and scary.
please do not share anything else personal with her.
please call me if you need to cry or talk about something you are hurting over.
since i am not involved professionally with you, and I live a little bit away from you, I am safe. I understand your anxiety and angst dealing with this woman.
NPD's do not have friends. They take prisoners, and torture them. You see this.
You are a good mother having a difficult time right now. It will pass and you will learn.
Every day is another chance to do the right thing.

Beth

This is powerful stuff.

I mentioned earlier this year that I was doing shadow work. It was so powerful that I put it down for several months, and you have just reminded me that it may be time to pick it up again. So, thank you for that.

Acknowledging the shadow is one of the most difficult things I've done so far. Naming, admitting, and accepting the shadow is terrifying. Yet, at the same time it is one of the most empowering processes I've ever embarked on. I truly believe that if we can accept and own our shadow, it loses it's power over us. Not only that, but we can then tap into the power it does have, and "transform" ;) it in ways we never imagined.

We all have a shadow. Having one does not make you a narcissist, or any other label. It makes you human.

L

Oiy. Heavens to Betsy. And all sorts of other exhausted exclamations.

I have many other examples like the "No one else has a problem with me telling them I'll kill them, only you," situation. I hope I don't have to post them as well to receive validation, but I might. I think I"m still in shock. And denial. I'm pretty wierded out in general.

Beth, I'm so grateful for your wisdom. Send me your number and I'll call all right. You may regret it. Thank you for your offer to support me. Thank you.
I don't want to think this about her, she only has one friend and I've never met her, but apparently she's ok with being told I'm going to kill you.

Are these folks especially charismatic? She's very beautiful physically, is a personal trainer too and runs thousands of miles a day, brags about it every day.

Regardless of any of this-a diagnosis, or wth is wrong with her-I have to make and keep a strong boundary. I love our paper and want it to succeed. If only I could put this emotional crap aside. She's already annouced that's what she's doing, I just have to keep from playing the psycho role like I did with AH. He would appear so calm and cool in public while I was so angry I could hardly be in the room with him. Everyone saw it. That's how I feel about her now.

We're launching a new website in January and are being videotaped tomorrow evening for that, introducing ourselves as co-owners and welcoming people to the new website .That'll be fun.

I hope you're right about this LDT. Fortunately, I know your word is good. You've proved that to me over the past year.

Are these folks especially charismatic? She's very beautiful physically, is a personal trainer too and runs thousands of miles a day, brags about it every day.

Yep, I read about being charismatic too. they are presidents of fortune 500 companies. channeled in the right way they can be very very productive.
hmmm, maybe look at her as a money making machine. cant argue with a machine.
LOL

and, yes, LTD is good at this. i owe her some money for therapy. hehehehehe
shhhhhhh.

Beth

I also owe LTD money. And many others LOL

I suggest buying one of these
http://brandscycle.com/merchant/278/...gripmaster.jpg

I am using it at the moment. At least you can get arm tone. The red one is "medium tension" but there is also "stronger tension". I might need that in the future :lmao

Toxic people at work can really help increase your strength. Here they recommend it for men but I found its OK for me, of course you can try diff tensions and see which one feels best :D



Isolating each finger so it can be exercised individually, the patented Gripmaster strengthens hands, wrist, and forearm with spring-loaded piston technology while ensuring the palm doesn't slip from a molded grip. This model offers medium tension (seven pounds per finger) and is recommended for men. Sturdy and highly durable, the Gripmaster easily fits in pocket or purse, enabling hand exercise anytime, anywhere.
A few daily workouts with the Gripmaster Pro and you'll enjoy better control of a baseball/softball bat, tennis racquet, or golf club, with each finger working in seamless unity with the others. You'll also find a ton of other uses for the Gripmaster Pro, including playing guitar or violin, rock climbing, bowling, target shooting, martial arts, yoga, or even relieving stress while clicking a mouse or gaming for hours on end.

Exercising with the Gripmaster is the most efficient and effective way to maintain the health and conditioning of the hand. It's the ideal way to maintain the suppleness and flexibility of the hand to prevent injury. Each finger of the hand is powered by a completely separate system of muscles and tendons located in the hand, wrist, and forearm. The ability to control the ball or control the bat, racquet, or club all starts with the hands. Your hand is really five separate systems which work in seamless unity. The only way to develop superior strength, endurance, and coordination in your hands is to challenge and develop each finger individually. Once you exercise with Gripmaster you'll notice a difference almost immediately.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this, You aren't imagining it, I cannot remember the last time I had a stand up row with a work colleague, or was on the recieving end of the descriptions of behaviour you describe.

I am very careful not to mix business/personal lives, I don't share personal stuff with work colleagues, I think I am too careful, work friends are important and I admire those who are able to take risks with personal information, but its a balance. I think I get the balance wrong, but hey ho.


- re recognising yourself in the list of traits of an NPD that you listed, I did too, to be honest I have yet to read a list of traits of any personality disorder that I haven't thought - UGGGHHH THAT's ME! I can't logically be all of them.

My understanding is that all humans exhibit narcissistic traits, sometimes more than others: toddlers are developmentally primed to be narcissistic most of the time, and charming with it.

I certainly do, and striking a balance is key, trying to eliminate these traits can lead me into very "codependant" behaviour that goes against my interests and gut. Accepting that It's OK that I'm not perfect is hard. I've always known there are dark streaks in me, I just worked hard to hide and eliminate them for fear of being unloveable.

Thanks again everyone.
Yes, I will just think of her as a toxic person.

When I seperate myself out from her, I can imagine tolerating her behavior.

Right now i caught myself obsessing about how to defend myself when I'm with her next, all though I know she'll be charming and sweet as pie. That's the tricky part. She looks so smart and caring and charismatic and feeds my ego too by telling me that together we're a force to be reckoned with. Ugh. The more I hear myself talk about it, the more disgusted I feel. Slimed.

Ceridwen said,


LTD said
and transform said she saw some of those traits in herself.
i do too. hmmm, i must look at this shadow work. cause I hide part of myself, actually had to stomp it down to look like i am the "nice" person.
and put up with a lot of crap to keep the nice girl face on.
the strength to be real is in me, even the dark side.

good stuff.
beth

When I was in my first few months of recovery from alcoholism, my sponsor gave me this great gift that I remember to this day. From time to time I find it useful to someone else to pass along his gift.

I was explaining to him all the messed up people in my life, she's crazy, that guy's an @ss, my boss is out to get me, they don't appreciate me, that one's just selfish and rude, etc. He asked me what all these messed up people in my life had in common. I gave some glib answer like, 'They all suck.' He said, "No, Keith, the common factor among all these people is you. You're the one thing all these people have in common."

Funny thing is, when I got better, they all got better too.

I've had a series of folks like my business partner in my life, starting with my parents, but am happy to report she is an anomaly. I don't surround myself with messed up people.

Most of the time, most of the people I choose to spend my time with are inspiring and wonderful. It's a conscious choice I make, who to spend my time with. Just like I'm doing with my business partner. Hopefully I won't find another person to act this crap out with when I've created stronger boundaries with her.

So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains. And we never even know we have the key.
-The Eagles

I just figured out why Keiths post bothers me. Thanks for telling this story in first person, but this gift does not apply to me.

Your situation doesn't apply to me. I'm not having a gratuitous bitch-fest about my resentments. I came here because I've never seen anything like this woman and had no idea how to deal with her I'm grateful the folks here took me seriously, had their own experiences with these types of people and educated me about Narcisissts, instead of pointing the finger back at me, telling me this off as a character defect I need to fix. Through first person, of course.

So, yeah, when I'm healthier I won't allow this unhealthy person to take up so much space in my head, and that will take a few days-at most. I've received valuable information, educated myself regarding Narcissists and now have a plan as to how to heal that part of me that blames myself, create better boundaries. I allowed her to treat me this way because I'm hard wired to. Breaking out of that pattern is the most difficult and freeing work I've ever done.

Uh, I know I have the key. I'm just trying to fix myself, that's why I came here asking for help.

I'm getting defensive. I feel as though you're all blaming me, which can't be the case. Triggered. I'll check back in tomorrow...

I've been trying like hell to fix myself too Transformy. And within the past couple of weeks ago I realized that doing so assumes one really crucial point and that is that there is something WRONG or BROKEN about me. When in reality there is NOTHING wrong or broken about me and there is nothing wrong or broken about you.

I only posted the Eagle quote to remind us of the same principle my dear old dad used to always say when we were kids: that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Sometimes there are ways out, windows and doors that we don't even know are there, but that if we just somehow open them, new worlds are revealed to us. I taught myself long ago to keep stepping outside my comfort zone. Was hoping it would help you, sorry it appears it did the opposite :(

As for this:
This is a great gift and thank you for sharing keithj. I understand this as it applies to someone who is a practicing drug and/or alcohol addict or abuser. Or someone who's got stinkin' thinkin'. But I don't think Transformy's either of those things, she's grappling with toxic people.

For me, when I REMOVED myself from the equation that included all those people, I got better. WAY better. "People, places, and things" applies just as much to the codependent, IMO, as to the alcoholic or the addict.

Peace Transformy. Hope you're feeling better soon.

Hey Beth, I think it's in me, too. Did you see my thread about it?

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...behind-us.html