are you reading the codependent no more book with us? it kind of seems that you are attempting to adapt to a relationship with an A and a liar. If you're okay with this within the dynamics of your relationship, what is the definite deal breaker for you?

I realize that, hon. But look back to your earlier posts...much of that year has been spent with you being upset about his drinking and his lies. You're going to do whatever you want to do, but when you ask us how to willingly stay in an obviously bad relationship, it just goes against what we're trying to do here. We want you to be happy and fulfilled, but you have to play the major role.

insulated - the definite deal breaker is if he cheats on me. Also, if he hasn't been making any attempts to sort himself out (not just with alcohol).

iamsaved - thanks for your comments. I think I will try what we had planned by myself tonight! The strange thing is, I know I'd be OK by myself if I wasn't in this relationship. I don't know why that doesn't make me leave, but as I said, I'm sure i'll know when the time is right.

Oh sweetheart, I just want to give you a hug.

You can stay, you can leave. A year in is not that much, but I truly understand how even at that point it appears you can't live without them, you will never find anything better etc.

I also understand why the others appear frustrated. We have dealt with this behavior and from the outside we see the path you are going down due to our own experience . . . been there done that. But since we have "done that" we also know how hard it is to leave and how desperately in love you feel.

The fact for any of us who choose to stay in a relationship built on dishonesty - is the honesty we have to have with ourselves. There is no magic button that is going to make you feel better. There is only ONE answer - and that is if you choose to stay in a relationship with a liar - you are in a relationship with a liar. If you want it to not affect you emotionally and you want to detach - you will need to not CARE or LOVE him. You will not need to care that he is obviously showing you a lack of respect and treating you "less than". How do you do that? There is no instruction manual on how to be ok with someone you love lying to you. There are no steps. You just have to stand there and listen to them lie to you and be OK with it. That simple. Can you do that?

I personally won't tell you not to do this. You need to do what you need to do. You will be done when you are done. But I will say I have been where you are and it did NOT turn out well. But I sure did learn some VERY valuable life lessons. Mostly - how to love myself enough to never tolerate this behavior from anyone else ever again and keep my side of the street clean and be the person that I want to be with.

We are here for you whatever you choose.

SeekingBalance

suki - thanks, i know it seems that way. I have had happy times with him while we've been together - its not all bad, but I know it should be a lot better. I'm sorry if i shouldn't be asking these questions, i just don't know where else to turn sometimes.

seekingbalance - thank you, your words meant a lot to me. i don't think i can be OK with him lying to me, but i guess i'm trying because i see it as more of a temporary thing. He is making slow inroads into sorting himself out and i guess i'm expecting the lying and drinking to stop at some point. If it doesn't, i can't go on like this, accepting the lies. I can understand why people are getting annoyed with me on here, i really can. I'd be giving myself the same advice.

I tolerated the unacceptable. I found a way to stay in the relationship: I stuffed my feelings of disprespect. I avoided all confrontation. I embraced insanity (doing the same thing over and over - expecting different results). I gave away my power for the sake of the relationship. I made the relationship more important than my precious life.

I became a doormat.

I do not recommend that as a way to live life. It makes you crazy.

I hope that you will honor your inner voice and take a stand for your one precious life.

So, cheating is the dealbreaker. Have you asked him if he's ever cheated? If he answered you, would you believe the liar? If he told you he was quitting drinking, and going into a program, would you believe him?
:lala

Ahh the tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. Lying infiltrates every aspect of your relationship. Without truth, there is no bond of trust.

My heart breaks for you, that you would accept this as behavior that is tolerable.

IWC...what if you stopped subscribing to the b.s.?

I feel like I see similarities in your situation to mine. I could only gather enough gusto to go NC once my life was in danger (crazy dog attack...actually more funny in a way, but u get the point). And there just came a point where here was nothing I could do. And I knew it. I can see you're not ready. But what if you tried it for an experiment...

Next time he contacts you or whatever... Don't jump! Take it one step at a time and see how it goes. As bad as this sounds to all of the wonderful, strong people on here..One thing that kept me going was the faith that if I stood up for myself and walked away, maybe...just maybe...he would love me enough to start to see. Of course I'm working really hard on letting it go completely, but especially at first. I really didn't want to loose him. As a friend, even.

My Xabf lied a lot too. Looking back, sometimes I start to go crazy wondering what was really the truth. They are sick, yes...but what are you telling him by being by his side? He'll NEVER have a chance to see how he's hurting you.

Maybe try sticking up for yourself in small ways (i.e. don't cancel you plans for him, type stuff..I know I did that).

Does your A ever say "I know you don't believe me anyway?" Or things of that nature?
Mine did. The first few times I actually did believe him when he said that..now...
What do you guys think, that's for sure a ploy/given that he's lying right? LOL. Such distorted thinking..its NUTS!!!

Do you lie to him? Is that fair? Maybe think about it not so much ending, but give him a chance to EARN you. Idk that might not be the healthiest way..but it kinda works for me sometimes.

but at least i do have some sort of dealbreaker. there are many people on here who have been in a relationship with an A who has cheated on them many times. that is a definite no-go for me. I'd never trust him ever again.
i don't know what else to say - i thought i was doing well, trying to work out ways of detaching etc. i feel liek i'm doing worse than ever now.

marygoround - thanks, i'm trying to deal with it in small ways and i am going to try to stick to the plans we had tonight on my own (even though the thought of that is a little scary). he doesn't say 'i know you don't believe me anyway' but when he makes out that i don't have any faith in him, usually when he's lying and i question him about it.

IWC, I stayed in a relationship with a man who was alcoholic and lied. He also lied before he was an alcoholic, and he lies now. He just lied...it was how he coped with life.

In order to stay in that relationship while I did, I had to suspend my own moral code: Lying had to become acceptable not just from him, but from everyone.

The more I bent myself in order to stay in that relationship, the more my self-respect vanished, and the more unstable and weak I felt, because my Self was deteriorating. The more unstable and weak I felt, the more I was obsessed about staying in the relationship. It became more and more impossible to envision leaving the relationship, because there was nothing left of Me -- there was only Us.

I almost died from the stress-related medical disorders caused by this damaging cycle, this sacrificing of my own life on the altar of a relationship with one man out of three billion on this planet.

You will not find any satisfactory responses to 'how do I find a way to be content with lying in my relationship' because people here know they would be helping you to destroy your own ethical boundaries, your own person, your own self-esteem. You won't find much help in this here, I'm afraid. Support in other areas, yes. Help in dismantling your own self-respect? No...that's not something we're very good at.

Yes, there are people who do it -- when they have children they're worried about, when they feel they can't make it on their own, when they decide that their survival depends on learning to live with the alcoholic's flaws for a while. You're not in this situation.

It is only through the strength gained by respecting yourself and honoring your own belief system that you will be free of these obsessive thoughts and behaviors.

When I was actively drinking, I would always lie about my drinking. Not so much about anything else, I think. It drove my wife crazy as she felt she could deal with me better if she knew when I was drunk (and hence more likely to be unpleasant). I knew the only way for me to stop lying about my drinking was to stop drinking altogether.

In any case, what to do? If he is like I was, you're not going to get very far on getting him to admit he was lying (except maybe an admission to preempt a confrontation when it is obvious he was lying). Confrontation is unlikely to be successful either- he needs to drink more than you need the confrontation.

Maybe try to keep things under your control? e.g. state that given his past track record, you're going to assume that he is untrustworthy. It is up to him to prove to you that he is trustworthy. Furthermore, you are evaluating the wisdom of a long-term relationship with someone who is not trustworthy. Thus it is up to him to sort himself out and prove himself worthy to you.

At the end of Chapter 2 of CNM, Melody uses an Alanon slogan: Identify, don't compare.

That slogan is also used in the rooms of AA.

Identify, don't compare.

I did not know what that meant. I am learning what it means. As I read the stories on here at SR and in books like CNM, I can identify with the author and what they are feeling. I have felt those feelings of betrayal, powerlessness, denial, fear, fear and more fear.

However, I did not always identify with the posters, members and authors. I compared. I compared my lifestyle to theirs
(I was never beaten - threfore I'm not As abused as they are)
(I was never cheated on - I'm not as much a doormat as they are)
(I never had my car repossesed - I'm able to make my car payments at least)

but my reality is this:

I have never been beaten, but I can identify with being emotionally abused.
I have never been cheated on with another woman in a sexual content. Lots of qualifiers in that last sentence! But I have been replaced by alcohol and lust for another woman. Therefore I can identify with the emotion of betrayal.
I have never had my car repo'd. But I live paycheck to paycheck to make payments. Therefore, I am living on the edge of loss. AND I have had my family home auctioned off. I can identify with the financial loss of addiction.

Are you comparing yourself to the stories in CNM, SR and group support meetings? OR are you Identifying?

The difference is a piece of glass. Are you holding up a mirror to identify the similarities or a magnifying glass to compare the minor differences ?

identify, don't compare.

I guess i need to really think about that one. My brain isn't working too well right now!

Remember to be gentle with yourself. You do not have to solve everything by 3 p.m. today, right?

Find your serenity for this moment.

I'm going to do the same.

I am going to take a few deep cleansing breaths and chant Peacefulness In during the inhales, and Fear Out during the exhales.

Let's practice self-love for a few minutes.

(((hugs)))

Cheating used to be my dealbreaker too, until he cheated on me and, hell, since I had been stretching my own boundaries and bull$hitting myself into accepting his deplorable behavior for so long, I began to bull$hit myself about that boundary too. All that "the relationship is worth fighting for" crap that totally enabled me to avoid asking, "Why do I put up with this and what do I really want and deserve?" If repeatedly lying isn't a dealbreaker for you, then cheating would only turn you into more of a doormat, IMO.

You're not crazy, you're putting yourself in the "crazies". This doesn't mean you're crazy.

I like you, do not live with my A nor are we married. And you're right, many don't understand this.
I may not be "stuck" by of pc of paper or kids, but I am emotionally as invested as anyone who is married or has kids.

No one is saying leave or stay, Only you know what is best for you.
I've been told to leave, then I'm told to fight and stay with him

At the end of the day, only YOU know what's best :-)

This spoke volumes to me, GL! You hit the nail on the head.

It's like a rocky pier jutting out into the ocean, and no matter how strong that pier starts out, the waves beating against it day after day after day begin to erode it.

That was my life with the EXAH. Every day a little more of me was ground down, vanishing. It's such a subtle process that I didn't realize how bad it was for a long time.

My bar of standards kept getting set lower and lower.

I too have had significant health problems over the years which I have no doubt were the result of untreated codependency.

I no longer accept the unacceptable, and lying is unacceptable to me.

Let's do practice self-love.

And THEN, iwc, let's think about the fact that love is a VERB. Love is what you do. It's not something that just happens to you - like a meteor falling on you. It is a choice.

Your statements of "but I love him" and "I just wish I didn't love him so much" remove your power to choose.

You might as well say "I choose to socialize with/support/spend time with/give all my precious energy to/share my bed and body with a drunk and a liar."

You can obviously do whatever you want to do, but if you choose dysfunction, at least own your decision.

Now, back to breathing peace in and fear out. I love that!:c011: