Obladi, I do believe you’ll get to where you want to be, truly I do. But you need to put the drink down for a while: not work on ways to eliminate your desire to drink, prior to putting the drink down, if that makes sense, that’s cart before horse thinking.

Drinking causes ‘temporary’ depression and anxiety. Stopping drinking for a while will raise your ability to cope with drinking thoughts and feelings, depression and anxiety. After stopping drinking for some time, any underlying (non-drink related) depression and anxiety will be more readily diagnosed and treated, if present. But you’re an intelligent woman and know this already.

Yes, this makes sense. I feel like I've done that but soon enough it's intolerable.

Forever is what you and dwtbd would have me say, but that's a longgggg time. You know.

I know, forever sounds intolerable. So, how about an impasse, you set the duration, but sufficient to allow the alcohol related symptoms to subside and the non-alcohol related ones to, perhaps, continue and be treated, if they exist and persist? AA adopted the 90 meeting in 90 days many decades after the Big Book was written, because of last century scientific evidence, that it takes 90 days to effect change in a habit. So how about it, 90 days of ignoring that addictive voice?

Forever is a lonnnng time, too true.
I couldn't not drink Forever, mostly because Forever isn't something I could 'do', luckily the universe sets up a much easier way, and for a wimp like me, it's doable.

I don't not drink forever, I just Never drink, now ( all of them )

O,
It has become very apparent that when Friday hits you hit the liquor store. Is this a truthful observation?

Would you like to commit to not drinking for a spell? How about this upcoming weekend?

It just seems like there is a cycle going on here. Just an observation and a care for your well being.

Yes, Mizz

You're right about the pattern and right to suggest I break it.

Commitment?
Ack.
Ok...

Tatsy nailed this girlfriend "But you need to put the drink down for a while:
not work on ways to eliminate your desire to drink, prior to putting the drink down,
if that makes sense, that’s cart before horse thinking."

And then Mizz nailed it too: "It has become very apparent that when Friday hits you hit the liquor store. . . .
It just seems like there is a cycle going on here.

You can't quit in your head before you quit "in your mouth" as it were.
Break the pattern, own the mental dodge to yourself (not us here)
and get some sober time built in up--the "days in a row" thing.

Until you do that, you really don't have the headspace to process recovery
that will stick. But you can surely get there O--grab you AV by the balls
and twist

twist hard :eek13:

By the way, bold large font is not angry or yelling in this case--
just emphatic and loving O :grouphug:

O
How are you doing?

Except...because you are still actively drinking, you will drink in response to every stress, because that doesn’t change until you set the booze down. It’s “intolerable” because the stress comes up in sobriety and you aren’t drinking over it.

No amount of therapy, AA, or rehab counseling will train your brain to respond to stress in ways other than drinking. Only you can train your own brain in that way. The training is sobriety.

I always liked the phrase, “there is no way out but through.”

You may feel better in therapy, you may enjoy the catharsis of working out and through your problems, and it may help in various ways. Won’t get you sober though. You’ll still drink as long as you allow yourself to drink.

Yes it is sometimes hell in early sobriety. Sometimes I want a drink very badly. Sometimes I want to drink at parties, or at events, or concerts, or dinners. Yet, I don’t.

Sobriety, for an alcoholic drinker, is the priority. Without it all else is lost. I might be uncomfortable for a year, or two. Maybe five. Maybe I’ll want to drink as long as I live and breathe. Doesn’t matter. The only way out is through.

I’ll slay this damned thing. I’m not going out like this. I’m going out with dignity intact. I’m gonna fight.

Get your fight back, O.

If it seems that I am trying to say that it makes sense to fix my thinking before I fix my drinking, that's not true. I'm thinking that the head stuff is vital because it and drinking are intertwined, chicken/egg and all that.

Nevertheless, Hawk (I know you weren't yelling) and others; I hear you. The cycle must be broken and that requires commitment. I said as much the other day, but it was very few words so perhaps you missed it.

I went to the new IOP last night. Seems like same shtuff, different venue, but I will reserve judgement for the time being. This place will get me sober once more if I stick with it as they do testing and Antabuse. I'll keep going. No reason on earth not to go that makes any sense to me in the state I'm currently residing. Also saw my psychiatrist and therapist yesterday. Fun times were had by all.

Sassy, I've read this a few times before deciding whether I'm irritated and am now quite certain I am.

I do not drink in response to every stress. I have a stressful job but I love it. Not drinking over that; I've learned how to work through the hard stuff. I have to pay bills and they've been pretty daunting of late. Don't drink over that. What is intolerable is living in this life of nothing that I have. That plus living in a house with a person who does little to acknowledge my humanity.

Therapy, AA and rehab counseling have helped me learn to break thinking patterns, to be mindful, to congratulate myself for actually freakin working at healing and resolving non-drinking history. Only I can train my brain, but coaching has been helpful. In my case.

Me too. Well maybe not always, but now I do. I am going through. Damn it.

I've acknowledged for some time that therapy helps with a lot of things, not so much with drinking. That's no reason not to try to work those lots of things out. Now here's where you sting me with your words: I do not enjoy the catharsis, I do not feel better in therapy. It's hard as hell; maybe the hardest internal work I've ever done. Much of it is as far removed from "enjoyment" as I can imagine. Do I see the benefit of doing that work? Am I feeling the overall benefit bit by bit? Yes. Fun? No.

Bully for you. I don't go to parties or events or concerts or dinners, so what is the reason you are telling me this? I suspect it's the same as the carefully worded letter from my daughter avoiding the use of the word "you" when that's exactly what she meant by making her veiled accusations. I don't drink to have fun. I drink to escape. Different strokes for different folks. (I could be reading too much between the lines here, just reacting to what I perceived.)

I'm so glad you are stubborn and determined. That's what it takes, I know.

You stick with it, woman. I know you will slay. I will too. It just might take a sledgehammer for me versus a sword for you.

O,
How are you doing today?

"If it seems that I am trying to say that it makes sense to fix my thinking before I fix my drinking, that's not true. I'm thinking that the head stuff is vital because it and drinking are intertwined, chicken/egg and all that. "

I don't see these two sentences as expressing different ideas, are they meant to ? ( this is me asking, not being snarky)

I don't think we can fix our thinking, but that it changes.

So much of the broad concept 'our thinking' is innate , yeah? The process just happens, but its product 'our thoughts' leave us with more leeway , as it were , no ?

I didn’t mean to offend. I suppose what I’m saying is that I believe alcoholism and psychology are much less intertwined than people suppose they are.

Alcoholism is an addiction.

You can work on issues without touching the addiction. You can also work on the addiction without touching the mental health issues.

By quitting, you are able to see what needs work. But only by quitting can work be done. I found this to be the case when I used marijuana to get through my last quit, I did not make progress. The work of sobriety still has to be done or it never gets done.

It’s ironic I believe in its simplicity, that to quit drinking successfully, people must quit drinking.

Without months of sobriety, I think you can’t really know your real living situation. Your thinking isn’t clear. It takes months to clear after quitting. I’m on month 3 and I am still not clear.

Well, I endorse Sassy’s and Dwtbd posts, so I guess you’ll be a little irritated Obladi.

Alcoholism IS addiction, not in my opinion a spiritual deficit, or a childhood insult, just addiction, a way, crutch mechanism of the so called coping at times of ‘stress’ mode, albeit habituated into times that you, perhaps don’t perceive as stress, that nonetheless are.

Anyway, if you’re irritated by my response, then I guess I need to butt out. I wish you well and will continue to read, but it seems you’re resistent to the input of folks that have found a solution to the problem.

Now see, here is what I was worried about . I was irritated and said so. And I think did a fairly good job of explaining why?

I'm not irritated with your response at all Tatsy. I value your input and that of others, including Sassy. Saying I'm bugged shouldn't be a bad thing, should it?

You know I'm not getting it (or resistant if that fits better for you) and yet you have been here, caring. As has Sassy. And dwtbd? Well, I feel like it goes without saying. It's of course totally up to you what you do, but please don't leave on account of me saying how I feel.

Yeah. I meant to say/impart they are not different ideas at all. In my tiny mind it's all a package and I ironically learn how to change my thinking by thinking about it.

(I hear no snarky whatsoever, no worries)

Thanks Sassy. I didn't think you meant to offend, was just responding with how I felt. And I know what I'm saying is that for me, addiction and psychology are completely intertwined. I've been an addict since I was a wee thing and long before my first drink. This is not a problem/disorder caused by the condition of addiction in my case - it's more a condition of addiction caused by... I dunno. Who I am? Heredity and personality? That's all twisty but I hope it makes some sort of sense.

I can not, in my opinion, address my mental health issues without addressing addiction. Nor can I address addiction without addressing the mental health issues. This is my belief. This is what has been "working" for me after years of flailing about without relief.

Is it perfect? Obviously not. Is it your solution? Clearly not. I only wish it were. Read back a coupla few years - I was totally psyched about AVRT. Made so much sense to me. But because I am who I am; making sense in a cut-throat rational sense wasn't enough. I admire and envy those of you for whom it was.

I had to address certain underlying issues - the issues that started me looking for alcohol as a solution.

But I also had to address my alcoholism which developed almost as a separate entity by the end.

so I think we're sympatico with that.

The mistake I made - and I think you might be making it too Ob - was continuing to drink while I looked for other solutions for those underlying problems.

It's like bailing out a leaking rowboat with a sieve.

The way to deal with alcoholism is to not drink alcohol ever.

We can make that simple...or we make it incredibly complicated...but thats the bottom line I think.

D