Let me elongate what I was saying and see if i can make it clearer lol

I said it is not as if I was in a marriage and messed up my own marriage. If it were my own marriage, then the only lives I would have messed up would be my own and that of the person, my spouse, who belonged to me.

I came in as an outsider, and entered the universe that was this family... On any given Sunday, four generations were present! On holidays, fifty people! I was the only one not related by blood or marriage.

I entered, I got involved with this man. I didn't just affect his life. I affected his wife's. Their kids and their kid's spouses were aware. His cousins were aware. The began to look at him differently, especially as his drinking began to visibly escalate (eg, at one point a nephew commented on his drinking and he openly admitted he drank all the time now, even at work).. he said this in front of three nephews, two nieces, his mother, his sister, his aunt and myself that day.

I don't think I've ever looked at the number of views a thread gets. I will notice new threads with no posts because it's an opportunity to reach out to someone......of course all threads are :). I guess I get concerned if the person hasn't had a response.....

Now I'm noticing the 'number of views' and still don't understand the obsession. Is it like friends on Facebook or something? I'm lost and don't understand why it matters, or what it has to do with anything?:headbange

I'm not feeling sorry for myself when I explain that.. I think it is good for us sometimes to examine the reach of the affects of our drinking. I hurt people.

BC, the majority of my life has been spent sober. I still hurt people unintentionally. It happens. Please do not be so hard on yourself.

Jimminy Christmas. Again, I feel about two inches tall.

I explained that the reason I found it interesting is that it was a large number of views for the length of the thread. I said I hoped that people were getting something useful out of it. It was just an observation. No, it's not like fb friends, I have less than 100... I don't care.. I'm not trying to rack up views, I don't WANT views. It did make me feel a touch self conscious to see so many views. I'm sorry if you find this silly..

Never said it was silly, just don't see why it matters. I'm sure there are many that are getting something from the thread. Most importantly, you.

The desire to drink has been hitting me off and on. I can admit that. I know I don't have to engage, I know I can dismiss it. I know I can go to church instead, or indulge in a frozen peppermint hot chocolate like I did at the mall tonight after church lol

Okay... If it doesn't matter to you, then you are free to discuss things that do matter to you. It does suggest that you view it as something trivial. I am sorry, sometimes what we say TO other people, makes them feel bad, even if we didn't intend for it to.

My apologies again to the moderators for defending myself... I say a lot of things that instigate. I know.

To be honest, I never noticed either until it was mentioned.

You wouldn't wonder why a thread you started attracted such a disproportionate number of views compared to threads of comparable length? 100 posts, 5,000 views? I notice things... *shrug*

Oh good I'm not alone! I was wondering if there was something more to it......duh......

Please, stop. You've made your point.

BC my posts to Getmeout have clearly upset you. You have taken my observations/confusion personally, and out of context. That's unfortunate. I won't try to make sense of this because I can't. I'm sorry that my question upset you.

Thank you for your apology.

Hug. BC, most of us come to sobriety having hurt people.

When I arrived I was full of shame for some harms I'd done. And anger over other harms that I'd somehow (in my insanity) managed to convince myself weren't my fault, and that actually it was ME who was the victim. I was full of shame and rage and completely lacked hope. And I stayed that way for the first 6 months of my sobriety. In the end it was the 12-step program that helped me work through all this stuff in a safe, methodical way (not laying awake at 2 in the morning whooshing it all rounds and round my head, or sobbing at traffic lights in my commute, or in those stomach churning moments when my memories accosted me in commercial breaks, etc - that was just me being stuck in the Vortex, although my AV did have me convinced that this was actually my way of working through this stuff like the other AAers did with their step work and sponsors.)

The step work, when I finally gave it a go, allowed me to suss out which character flaws of mine had been at play when I did those harms and formed those resentments, etc. that were on my inventories, and understand which were my part in events and what were other people's parts (I'd got myself very confused about some early events and was blaming my young self for some awful things, but not seeing where my part actually was - once I'd worked out that stuff out it was easier to start growing past it). Then of course, working out ways to make amends that won't harm others further - I was very grateful for my sponsors experience and wisdom on that score, as I'm sure I'd have gone rushing in headfirst in some instances and done more harm than good.

I'll always be grateful for my opportunity to do this work (although it wasn't a walk in the park) because I suspect that my deep shame was one of the things that kept me isolated. Isolated from my friends and family, and people in general, but more importantly it meant I was isolating myself from God. Sure, I was going to church and even taking communion, but I didn't even realise that I wasn't really trusting him and the promises we read in the Bible. I hadn't properly processed the simple truth, that God doesn't forgive us because we deserve it. He does it because of his amazing, amazing Grace and because Jesus died on that cross to pay upfront for our sins.

So, Talitha Cumi: Little girl, awaken.
'Awake, O Sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." (Ephesians 5:14)

Oh, and that iced peppermint chocolate thing sounds amazing!!!

Xx

Darn you BC. Ive got a stinking cold but now craving iced peppermint chocolate doo-daa so going to have to get dressed and venture into the world (well, Ely on market day just before Christmas, which will contain a little more of the world than I feel completely ready for) and see if there is a suitable substitution to be found in Costa or similar! X

Oh, and as I've been sitting here thinking about the inherently damaging nature of Shame, I remembered something that made me feel sad a while back..

I was walking along a small Street and there was a family (mum, dad, girl maybe 13 and little brother) walking along. The girl was being a teenager: being a bit sulky and asking when they could go home; complaining she was bored, etc. The dad walking in front stopped and looked so angry it was a bit scary. He didn't shout though. He leaned way, way into her face and whispered really aggressively at her. She kind of flinched back. I couldn't hear anything he said, but the look on that girls face afterwards was heartbreaking. Sure, she wasn't being particularly fun or pleasant, but she also didn't do anything so bad to be made to feel like she was obviously left feeling. Her whole face and demeanour changed. Whatever he said broke that girl for a time. Just watching and seeing her body language and facial expression, and the shame in her eyes kinda smacked me in the face. For a moment I felt that old shame again. It was all I could do not to run over and give that girl a hug.

Thing is, when it was me, it wasn't a parent whispering that **** in my face. It was me. Over and over, like whipping myself on the inside, til my heart and soul were a mass of welts. But nowadays I'm sure that God doesn't want us to inflict that pain on anyone. Not someone else, and not on ourselves.

Sorry if that's a bit of a ramble. X

I also had a kind of "roving guilt" in my first months of sobriety when I was thinking about the damage I had caused with my drinking.

Owning that, forgiving myself, and then focusing on rebuilding a healthy, stronger, better me was what I did to move on. Like Berry, it wasn't easy

and it took some time and introspective space. Take that space and time for you, and let go of anything that does not help you move forward.

I wish you healing and peace BC

BC,

Would it be possible to transfer your obsession with this man to your recovery? Put all the energy that is going towards him into focusing on yourself?

My situation was a little different but at around 3-4 months I was pretty eaten up with wanting to know where my marriage would end up. I was hyperfocused on my wife. It was suggested that I let her do her thing and just focus on myself and my recovery. I did and it was what I needed to do. Where I ended up after a year of hard recovery work was very different than where I started out. I changed and my priorities, perspective, etc... changed.

Perhaps you could pour all of this energy towards recovery?

hi BC, the comment re apologizing to the mods about defending yourself...it caught my eye. we defend when we feel attacked.
not sure thgis is of use to you, but i'll add my sense of reading here which is that no-one is attacking you. people are sharing about themselves (they didn't notice the thread views, for example (i didn't, either; have never paid attention to that)) or asking questions.

when the responsive is a defense, there is no real conversation happening, as in con and verse. back and forth with, not against.

learned this from years of defending:)