What I don't understand about the whole thing is that he could have minimized the time he spent with me, but he didn't.. He lived across the street but some days while I was there he would come over five separate times in 12 hours, find something to do, sometimes just stand in the kitchen and talk to me.. the whole reason for having these caretakers was so that the family wouldn't need to.. he had a sick wife who was accusing him specifically of having an affair with me and yet he would come over repeatedly.. up until later days when I began to push him away.. smh I don't understand that part of it.. I guess I bring this up partly because my ego wants to hang on to that but also partly because.. while I understand and it is good advice that you guys give, that I should stay away.. I feel like I have made it to sound like it was one-sided pursuit.. when there was plenty of times I even complained openly to other family members that "if he's having so many problems at home and doesn't want to be here, why does he keep coming over here?" I even told them about the day I counted five separate visits..

I know you guys don't care, I'm just saying that because it wasn't just me pushing time with him. I was across the street, he had to physically leave his house to come over, I didn't go to his house.

It matters to ME, it doesn't matter to you lol

So he was flirting back...but his behavior is not a rationale for yours.

You made the sensible decision to avoid more drama and move on.

So now...move on?

Thing is, none of that is relevant. That's his side of the street. If he was on here then sure, it'd be worth us talking to him about his stuff if he wanted to recover and find peace. By he's not. You are. So it's your sidewalk you need to be focussing on if you want to move on.

It's not about blame. It's about learning from our mistakes and moving on.

I know, that is why I say I can't understand it! I got the reality check I needed, FOed on outta there, had a little freak out once more but then the drama subsided and I was moving on, getting really good in my sobriety.. I don't know what happened that brought me back..

What was the trigger? Getting back in to religion? But I want that, I need that, that's good for me! More importantly, I believe in it, and feel morally obligated to keep going down this path... but what if my newfound religious faith is what is causing all my moral unrest? How do I assuage that?

The fact that it matters to you does matter to us though. You've come here seeking help and your obsession with this issue is holding you back from getting the help you need here and elsewhere. The details of who did what and when are irrelevant, but your obsession with them is not in that respect.

I haven't been taking good care of myself lately... I guess the only two things I've been doing right is showing up to work and not drinking... I have not been very mindful of spending my time in healthy ways... I've even gone off my diet, haven't been to the gym in weeks... I was making an effort to be creative and productive before, now I indulge in repetitive mindlessness... Going back to school next month should help shake me out of my rut but I don't want to wait that long... I am getting paid to dip fruit in chocolate tomorrow, that's always happy lol

well, now youre getting somewhere with realizing some of the problem- good on ya!!
heres a question-what would God want you to do? where IS God in all this?
heres a lil bit from a story in the BB i turn to now and then that helps me:

Perhaps the best thing of all for me is to remember
that my serenity is inversely proportional to my expec-
tations. The higher my expectations other
people are, the lower is my serenity. I can watch my
serenity level rise when I discard my expectations.
But then my “rights” try to move in, and they too can
force my serenity level down. I have to discard my
“rights,” as well as my expectations, by asking myself,
How important is it, really? How important is it com-
pared to my serenity, my emotional sobriety? And
when I place more value on my serenity and sobriety
than on anything else, I can maintain them at a higher
level—at least for the time being.
Acceptance is the key to my relationship with God
today. I never just sit and do nothing while waiting
for Him to tell me what to do. Rather, I do whatever
is in front of me to be done, and I leave the results up
to Him; however it turns out, that’s God’s will for me.
I must keep my magic magnifying mind on my ac-
ceptance and off my expectations, for my serenity is
directly proportional to my level of acceptance. When
I remember this, I can see I’ve never had it so good.

even today, i find great relief from something thats bothering my by starting at step 1 on the problem.
1-im powerless over people(including myself) and its making my life unmanagable
2- i believe my God can help restore me to sanity( because allowing thoughts to control me and my thinking is insane)
3- turn it over
4- write it out and find causes and conditions.
and continue with tbe rest of the steps on it.
in order.

I am trying to recall the steps I took that created the sense of closure that I had, and the things that have triggered my backslide..

I have a coworker on Sundays, a 44 year old single male.. this has been bothering me for some reason. We aren't attracted to each other but I have this fear of crossing boundaries, just because that is what I have always done in the past. I think this is part of what is making me feel insecure.

Is that horrible big L in HALT a possible trigger??

You have mentioned religion a lot. A lot of religion can be reflective and solitary, but can also be balanced nicely by getting involved in a church community. In the lead up to, and over, the Christmas period my church fellowship together with my AA fellowship has been vital to me. I know that without them, AND that solitary reflection time, I would be lost to the vortex myself.

Perhaps it's time to add some fellowship to the plan. This is scary at first, as for most of us, getting close to others kinda backfired in the past. It can be very different when we have an honest agenda though.


And scan through those other HALT triggers as well lovely lady. They are so flippin simple, that we often overlooked them and the consequences can really slap us down. Personally, I know that 'Hungry' will need some self-discipline on my part over the next few weeks. I can eat cake and chocolates all I want, and maybe not recognise that my body is starved of the nutrients it needs which will make me very rattley, so that boring grown-up kind of self-care is going to be high on my recovery checklist as well.

Also, just as an alcoholic is likely to be triggered to think about booze, it is likely that you will be triggered to think about that old obsession. BUT once you HAVE been triggered to think about him and that situation, just mentally acknowledge it and then, quickly, make a decision to NOT think about it. Not him. Not the situation. Not unravelling what triggered you /reminded you of him. None of it. All we can hope to achieve by entering into the obsession through whatever portal a certain trigger opened up is to strengthen that trigger. Just change the subject in your head.

Music is a powerful tool. The right kind of music anyway (no nostalgic romantic slush is gonna help you at the moment ). Strong positive powerful music is more what I mean. I love a bit of David Crowder (American Prodigal is a current favourite - Keep Me, Run Devil Run, All My Hope and All We Sinners in particular). Also, Rosetta Tharpe who was an amazing strong lady who died back in the early 70s leaving behind her strong music with gospel messages and a lot of sass behind her. (It's very hard to stay low listening to her version of Joshua).

I'll light a candle for you today BC and remember you in my prayers.

See, this is what I meant before... you are already kinda contemplating the "next target" while not even detached from the previous one. By that I mean a new man, to infuse his image with your thoughts, feelings and history, even if you have no intention to get involved physically.

I think Berrybean has a lot of good advice. You seem to be quite interested in exploring religion - that could be something to get involved in, find a church community, a pastor you trust etc? I am not a religious person but dabbled in it when I was very young for a while. I never had any religious education or influence beforehand, was just looking for some answers that led me to it and I felt an intense curiosity and need to join and see for myself. I dived into it quite intensely (as much as I was able) for a while and eventually moved on, but it did give me valuable knowledge and experiences, and answers to some of my questions. I did many things like that in my life: got interested in something and explored it intensely until I no longer felt I needed more. And while I was not always aware of it at the time (especially when younger), I found very valuable elements in most of these experiences and "systems"... they got ingrained in my thinking, values, way of living (internalized). I like to be intensely involved in pursuits that interest me - I think it's driven, to some extent, by the same feature that can also lead to the less healthy obsessions. But I believe we do have a choice regarding what we engage in and it is possible to say 'no' to destructive urges and get out of that vortex (never heard the phrase before this thread, I like it!). I agree with what you said before, Brenda, that we create a lot of our reality with our thoughts and interests, these guiding what we seek inside out and what we discard or dismiss. So if we accept this, the best strategy might be to choose our interests wisely and not engage in those parts that do not serve us well. It's a bit like an AVRT-type approach in a more general sense, except that my personal strategy is not splitting the self into "good" and "bad" parts, label them, and condemn elements of ourselves (so that we do not create new internal conflicts).

Also, there has been so much discussion... don't remember if you tried AlAnon or AA? Could be good ways to fill some of your free time.

what if my newfound religious faith is what is causing all my moral unrest? How do I assuage that?

but why assuage it? newly come-to faith is sure to rattle, and rightly so. lots to look at in moral unrest, none of which can flourish if simply assuaged.

obsession...it looks like it's about him him him, but really, it is self-absorbed and entirely self-involved. which is why one "successful antidote" is involvement with being of use to others.

Aellyce.. but that's not what I mean. No next target. I'm afraid of being around men, as I haven't been since I was a little girl, only difference being, I am not afraid of what they will do to me, I am afraid of what I will do to me.. I have no interest in this man, I don't find him attractive, he doesn't remind me of my father.. there's nothing there.. I know I have nothing to be afraid of, there is just an awkwardness now around men, because of my past patterns..

As far as fellowship, and it ties in to my interactions with men.. my faith is helping me to see everyone around me more as neighbors.. I try to envision every person as walking beside me, and being the same as me, rather than projecting on to them any kind of expectation, romantic or otherwise.. When you just view everyone as the same as you, you have fellowship.. even in Catholic church, you don't interact with others really, but I still feel kinship with everyone around me, we're all the same..

fini - good point.. I definitely turned my life back over to God because of my need to quit drinking.. last August I was sitting on L's aunt's porch when a Jehovah's witness came along.. I was rattled by the negative feelings that came up, and what I realized I HAD to get those feelings worked out, and the next day I said the sinner's prayer, sitting in the same spot.. As many unpleasant things happened in that house, that's where I was saved.. and a week later I got sober.. it will always be the place where I spent my first 3 months of sobriety.. I really feel that God sent me to that place and sent me those people (the JW's included) as catalysts to turn my life around.. Maybe not true, but that's how I choose to view it.

I have always felt that internal discomfort was like my car's check engine light coming on.. I could ignore it, but it's probably best to find out what that's about..

Again... 4,000 views.. it's freaky. What is the topic of interest, exactly?

I hope at the very least that people have seen that you can have those feelings of utter futility in your early sobriety, feel like giving up, and be able to work through it somehow, even if you still feel bad, even if you feel deep shame.. it's better to talk about your vulnerabilities.. we learn that our emotions can't really hurt us, they can't really force us to relapse, we don't have to do that.. relapse isn't inevitable.

That's what it was all about in the very beginning of my sobriety, the first six weeks or so.. when all the excruciating memories and associated feelings came up, I was facing lifelong fears for the first time, and I learned that I could do that. I still have a lot of unpleasant feelings now but I lived through the worse feelings imaginable.

You seem really perplexed by the number of views. Speaking for myself, given that this is a forum specifically designed for people who want to stop their addictions and/or maintain their sobriety, a thread titled " I almost wish I hadn't gotten sober.." certainly piqued my attention! Once reading it and seeing what it's all about, I found that many others had already said what I would have said. After that, I've mostly come back to see how the conversation is progressing, as I have also often been obsessed with women I've been in relationships with, long after they ended. I would wager that many of the views generated are from other people doing the same thing.

Then again, it may be people just messing with you because you've repeatedly mentioned the number of views! :)

Someone actually messaged me to tell me he knows how I feel because he had residual feelings over his ex wife... This is different, and I am sure there are other people out there who have fallen in love with people they shouldn't have.. the marriage was on the rocks before I came along, and it's not going to just end because of me, he doesn't want a divorce.. point is, it is not like I was married and my marriage ended because of things I did.. I affected lives beyond my own and that of a person who belonged to me, I was an outsider affecting decades-long relationships with my behavior.. It's going to take some time to move on from..

AVRT does recommend separation from desire, but it does not condemn those desires per se. It's not about "good" and "bad" parts, it's more about realizing that the drive for the buzz from drinking is there, but need not be acted on. The same can be said for other desires, like being attracted to unavailable people. One can recognize that the desire is there, but that it will lead to negative outcomes. Those desires can be recognized as not something to engage in, and dismissed.

how do you mean, BC, a person who belonged to you?
not possible!

BC, I click on all of the highlighted posts in different forums and read away. It is one of my main coping mechanisms right now to keep from going insane.