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Makes perfect sense to me Lenina. |
Originally Posted by Cow
(Post 4597383)
Of course sobriety always 'possible.' If you plane crash on remote island, I not care how addict you is, you gonna get sober. Now, is it possible for those with access? Mmm, is we now back to choice? Is ability for 'free will' dependent on environment/circumstances? I admit I long conning myself now, Robot. But in beginning, which go back to 8 year old with succession of all manner of eating disorder, self harm, cutting, etc., no, at that time, I did no even know what manipulation or addiction was, yet I organically manifest it to cope with untenable childhood. I not truly realize I addict until after my meth OD. And I not fully realize I TOTAL DELUSIONAL self-conning addict until last couple years. Life experience is so totally subjective, yes? I like where we're going with the idea of is free choice ability dependent on environment / circumstances? Hell yes! And additionally how much does subjective awareness play into our informed choices too? |
I depart as air, Shake my white locks at the runaway sun, I effuse my flesh in eddies, and drift it in lacy jags, I bequeath myself to the dirt to grow the grass I love, If you want me again, look for me under your boot-soles. Yes, Lenina, I wish to be sober in body and mind. You makes perfect sense. |
cow, thank you. how can we help you? I want you to know the bits of Peace I have. I hate it that you have self loathing. reminds me a bit of my baby sister who hates herself for what was done to her. I had self loathing because I wasn't there to protect her. But I had no choice. I had to flee or be consumed myself. yes, I have so much guilt still for this bit of cowardice on my part. But I was just a child myself. I go in and out of therapy and make some progress, I forgive myself but I cannot ever get pass completely what the adults were doing? Were they in survival mode too? or we're they just so narcissistically tied up, they couldn't see the damage they were sowing? Those flames still lick at my heels. But I no longer have to douse them with alcohol and other accelerants. (PS, not my business but Brian is a sociopath and you were just a baby calf) OK, I really must get myself groomed and out the door. love from your CAL girl |
Originally Posted by Cow
(Post 4597492)
I not gonna engage with too much higher power discussions, cuz I has find it very polarizing and rarely go anywhere. I supports any belief anybody have that help them live more fulfilling life. And please accept that it also okay if I not find God. I not looking. Yes, Lenina, I wish to be sober in body and mind. You makes perfect sense. That being said, I found quitting by myself impossible. I needed help and I suspect we all do. Perhaps just talking things over here at SR is enough for some. It wasn't for me. I think something more is needed. Since you're already aware of the options to supplement SR, 'nuf said. |
Lenina, my sweet, Cow has no self-loathing. None. Zero. I not sure where is you get that? Maybe is cuz I talk very open and blunt about my failings and losses and f*ck ups and regrets and super lowdown days and random stupidities, but that not equate to me with self-loathing. I actual feel very tenderly toward myself and, if I may, I rather likes myself quite a lot. I really rooting for myself. I really am. dsober, yes, I just wants to live, dammit, live! |
Cow, perhaps I'm projecting myself and my sister. I'm glad you can see yourself so clearly. Love from Lenina |
And we feel tenderly towards, and likes, you. Rooting for you, Cow. |
Originally Posted by Lenina
(Post 4597437)
Do you recall a poem by Edna St Vincent Millay, if I grow gnarled....sheesh I can't remember the rest....but it's about being planted in rocks, blown by the wind, scorched by the sun? Edna was an alcoholic, you know, so she knew about these things. I don't know but part of me getting sober was rebellion. Scrub If I grow bitterly, Like a gnarled and stunted tree, Bearing harshly of my youth Puckered fruit that sears the mouth; If I make of my drawn boughs An Inhospitable House, Out of which I never pry Towards the water and the sky, Under which I stand and hide And hear the day go by outside; It is that a wind too strong Bent my back when I was young, It is that I fear the rain Lest it blister me again. --Edna St. Vincent Millay |
Cow, I'm thinking ongoing addictive abuse of alcohol and drugs necessitates a measure of self-loathing simply on the premise that such abusive behavior can lead to tragic even fatal consequences. You yourself have suffered from such consequences re: your meth OD. We can play with subjectivity all day long, yet at the end of the playtime, objectivity has its rightful place too, yes? Why kid ourselves with candied understandings of the destructive realities of active addiction. We're not children here. I hope I'm not being too tough, Cow. :hug: |
That very sad lovely poem. Mmm, I not agree with this argument Robot. Is ton of peoples who engage in all manner of very dangerous compulsive behaviors for many reason that not has to do with self-loathings. I very frank, so if I feel self-loathings, I would say so. Maybe I just big lazy ass, who too lame to do what it take to get my sh*t together. :) |
Originally Posted by Cow
(Post 4598108)
Maybe I just big lazy ass, who too lame to do what it take to get my sh*t together. :) |
Originally Posted by Cow
(Post 4598108)
That very sad lovely poem. Mmm, I not agree with this argument Robot. Is ton of peoples who engage in all manner of very dangerous compulsive behaviors for many reason that not has to do with self-loathings. I very frank, so if I feel self-loathings, I would say so. Maybe I just big lazy ass, who too lame to do what it take to get my sh*t together. :) I realize this is an uphill deal for you to grasp the foundational realities of why people continue to drink even when they try really hard to not continue to drink. While I was actively drinking, things made sense to me in a completely different world then they did when I sobered up. I'm not wanting to personalize our discussion into a this or that kinda thing. Still though, I'm not some babe in the woods either, and you can't be expecting me to not be aware that I'm talking with a person who is in practice abusing alcohol and drugs as an active lifestyle. This sustained abuse has dire consequences. And for me, quitting for a day or couple or so doesn't equate to sobriety. Until the addiction ambivalence process has run its due course, its more about recovery from addiction then it is living the sober life. You've already admitted you've been long conning yourself, Cow. Even if I look the other way on your claim of being blind-sided for years early on, the last few years you seem to own as you conning yourself, and so at this page we stand together, yeah? I think we can also agree conning ourselves is not some trite past time, some unimportant nothing... :grouphug: |
1 Attachment(s) Belove Friends of Cow, So here we is at end of yet another Cow thread. We only allow 500 post, and it has go so fast, no? I very much appreciate that we can has such diverse group with divergent beliefs in different stage of addictions and recoveries who feel safe to be here and talk openly about they lives and truths, and plus also tackle such important sh*t like what we eating for breakfast. Is blessing. Tomorrow is Good Friday. Is day that mark death of most famous person who ever live. For many people, is symbolic death, cuz they believe he later rise from dead. Mmmm, I suspect about that part, but this exactly what Cow need, a symbolic death. Death of what Cow has been. Question is, can Cow rise from this death… …well you gonna has to tune into my next thread to finds out! Hey, I has to have cliff-hanger, no? Okay, I be back after Easter weekend! Much hugs to everybody and I see you soon. Moo Mwah! |
When Cow gets back and starts a new thread, I'll put a link to it here - I may need to be reminded :twak: Happy Easter everyone :) D |
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