Gotta take a break
 

I think I need to take a break from posting on SR. Last night I got drunk and ordered some cannabis vape. I have been going through a tough time dealing with my relationship with my ex, our relationship though great, is not what I want. I should add that we are 14 years divorced. I posted more on the relationship forum.

Anyway, I don't feel right offering advice and sharing experiences that are not positive. I will still be reading, will probably continuing and reading the helpful experiences. I've always reading is more helpful than posting, though I guess that everyone just read, it wouldn't be a very good board!!

That's it. Hopefully I'll get back to posting once I get my $hit together. Thanks for all your help and support.

At least you won't have read through all my longa$$ posts!! Take care.

Hi Tyler

I think it's noble you're thinking about others, but you have to consider your own needs too.

If you're struggling I think you're better here than not here, yeah?

I was going to comment on the other thread that it sounded a little like a set up for oblivion if things didn't work out.

I did that too - sometimes knowingly, sometimes not.

Seems to me like moving forward on the relationship front is probably not possible for you right now.

As hard as it is I think you need to focus on yourself and your ongoing recovery.

Don't worry about posting - you unerringly give good advice even tho you might not always take it yourself.

I hope you decide to stick around and post - and dump the weed vape - consider the money spent as an investment in your recovery :)

D

I second this. Posting can help clarify your thoughts so I hope you do post if it helps you. Your posts always help me but that's not why I'm saying this :)

if everyone just wrote it wouldn't be a very good board either! I hope you stick around tyler. hopefully we can all give to the forum when we can & take from it when we need to.

:grouphug:

tyler,
maybe consider if you are then dropping one of the things that have helped you, potentially leading to more disconnection.
my own experience is that participating is far more useful than "just" reading, as it is a much more active engagement.

On my cell so no long post here but I hope you ll stay with us.

Stick around Tyler.
Surely we can support each other regardless of what we're doing.
You are more likely to get your $h1t together, as you say, if you stay engaged here.

Hi Tyler, I also hope you continue posting, I find your posts insightful and interesting. In the early days on SR, I found posting kept me focused and my goal, central in my consciousness, more effectively than reading only.

I kept relapsing and posted in the new comers thread once in a while to save the new comer from ending up like me since I know the ins and outs of relapse and what leads to it.

Tyler,

I stopped giving advice when I had my second slip. I was living a lie and it was a bit like poison in my heart

I am feeling pretty good and strong these days, but I still crave and know I am capable of rationalizations that have led to a slip....I have learned enough here to know it can be way worse...e.g. lose everything

So i keep coming back and posting. AA is always an option

My addiction to booze is for life. There is nothing fun or cool for me anymore w booze. Only pain and suffering.

Thanks.

Thanks for all the nice comments :grouphug: I do think I need this place, but I thing I need to keep my posts to asking questions and maybe sharing what I am going through and listening to the advice. I really don't feel like I have much to contribute as far as advice at this point, other than perhaps what not to do.

I would like to request some links or book suggestions from those of you who have some long term sobriety. I already have the SMART hand book and The Freedom Model, which I am partially through. I have been somewhat resistant to AVRT as there are somethings that rub me the wrong way, but I really don't know that much about it. Even if it is not the "program" of choice for me, I'm sure I can glean some good ideas from that. I am definitely not an AA guy, but there are a number of things I use from that program too.

Thanks for all your support and love. I am still struggling with a number of things in my life, substance use among them. I am agnostic, so I don't really pray, but I figure prayers from others can't hurt!! Who knows, maybe I've got it wrong!! Thanks again and take care.

If you are interested in mindfulness and Buddhism I would suggest you check out Refuge Recovery
https://www.amazon.com/Refuge-Recove.../dp/0062122843

Also Sober for Good, it has many stories and advise from people who have attained sobriety with different methods. It s a good motivational tool

https://www.amazon.com/Sober-Good-So...sober+for+good

Thanks for the links Carolitta I will make sure to check them out.

Quick update as to where am. I am drinking nightly, about a half bottle of 70 proof rum. I am also taking about 2mg of Xanax. Bad combo I know. I have also ordered a couple of bottles of marijuana concentrate to vape, I know this is all bad, but I will probably vape all the concentrate until it is gone. Just trying to be honest here.

I do not plan to order more. When I drink it lowers my inhibition to get the pot. I have even considered taking the 5 hr drive each way to DC where I can but it legally, crazy I know, I 10 hour trip to buy weed!! I've done it several times before , once I nearly wrecked my brand new car (like a week old) because I was high and think I passed out for a few seconds. It helps me to write this crazy stuff out.

The bad thing is that it is accomplishing exactly what I want it to. I have been going through a very tough time with my ex-wife. Nothing that she has done, she is a saint and has gone through so much for me over the years and even now, 14 years after the divorce still cares deeply. However with the booze I am not having to deal with the emotions. It has been great. I know I can not continue this way. My therapist had to cancel today, and I was really grateful that wouldn't have to go through all of this with her.

Anyway, all advice is welcome. I may not take it immediately, but I do read it and file it away. Thanks for your advice in advance, I really appreciate all of the love and support I have always gotten from this place,

Hoping everyone is in a better place than I am. Take care

Advice?
Since 2002 you haven’t ran across the right advice yet?
Stop consuming intoxicating substances. If you don’t want to do that , at least take a bus to DC , you could wreck a new person , not just your new car.

Are none of these CBT techniques you’ve mentioned in various posts helpful?

Yes, they have been very helpful in the past and have been hit by a situation that did not really expect. Hopefully taking about with my therpest and others involved will put it into better perspective. I have not given up, this is a setback that I will grow from

These are all things I know, though thanks for pointing them out to me again. Honestly it would probably be more helpful if you would share your story with me rather than just criticize me and what us not working. may not take your advice immediatly, but it is filed away and I do not bring it out.

Alternativity you can just keep your snarky comments to yourself. Either way works for me. Take care

Sometimes it takes all kinds of people to get to the bottom of things, Tyler, and while understanding and sharing have their place, sometimes that is simply not enough. You are not new to this, and you are not on a good path, in all likelihood. One drink quickly led to two, and two drinks led to ordering marijuana, and to half a bottle a night of rum, plus Xanax.

From outside your present bubble, that doesn't look very wise, does it? I understand your predicament, but with your having been on the other side of the fence, I also know that you can grasp my question with some objectivity.

Hi Tyler,

From you what you say, this may be the reason you're drinking at the moment.

You said you welcome advice so here's my two-penneth :). I know you're part way through the TFM book at the moment so I'm assuming the model resonates with you in some ways.

This post by Steven Slate: https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ml#post6837750 talks about this issue of how we can believe that drink can help us deal with our emotions but that by using the "drug, set, setting" model we can come to see that this belief is not true. Just to quote this from the post:

..the pleasure of substances is highly subjective, and constructed not only of pharmacology, but also of our mindset about substances. We use the "drug, set, setting" model to dissect drug effects, to show that it's possible to reach a point where they do not appear as desirable to you as they once did.

My advice then is to post on TFM thread and ask for further explanation of how to do this. Hopefully Steven will be able to pick it up.

All the best.

Addiction is an internally unstable condition. You are using drugs against your better judgement. I did that, too, and for a number of years. My obstinancy and resistance to change led me to attempt to make that unstable condition as stable as possible. Me living with my drunken me went on for over a decade, and I was hard pressed to finally give it up. But when I did, I knew it was over.

I think you, too, have made the normally unstable condition of addiction a way of life for yourself for the last decade, possibly much longer - continuing to use against your own better judgement. Nevertheless, you can end it quickly and completely any time by your own will.

I quit for good before AVRT had been developed, but the pledge had been around for centuries, and that’s essentially what I did. I flipped my alliance with the drunken me overnight. It was wraught with emotion, but I was stubborn and determined. I killed the drunken me and it kept coming back in dreams and a background anxiety and feeling that I had repeatedly failed at the pledge which I had not failed at. As I now know AVRT (and have used it for other permanent abstentions) I realize that is essentially what I did back then.

What about AVRT are you uncomfortable with?

You are right I was being snarky and I was directing it squarely at You. The real you , the rational , intelligent, compassionate You.

It was meant to be jarring, to try and shake some of what sure looks like some of your ingrained thinking and maybe shunt That to the side, like the objectivity Algo more deftly asked for.

That ingrained thought process is what answered me though. It shot back with some passive aggressive crap , comparing 'stories' , trying to highlight the idea of some terminal uniqueness that justifies intoxication as an emotional suave. It didn't even try to defend irresponsible and potentially dangerous behavior , just acknowledges it as par for the course as if reasonable responsible people will just excuse and set aside any 'judgement' on such issues, constantly deflecting any discussion on terminating future intoxication.

My story in a nutshell,as far as quitting goes , is like this : in a fairly desperate state I stumbled on SR and found out about AVRT/RR , those ideas resonated with me and I quit, you can too, I believe that even if you don't (yet). My story for why I self intoxicated , in a nutshell was I loved it, and I had/ have myriads of justifications for why I did it , beyond just sheer pleasure , the reasons and justifications I thought( or knew) I needed in order to keep doing it, until I decided to not do it anymore, ever again.

So , yeah, your AV is definitely going to grumble at the concept of never , that is the feature of AVRT, but mostly to shunt any thinking that isn't geared toward keep the supply of intoxicants coming . It will try and convince You that you can't even conceive of the concept , but deftly , probably by having you focus on any other aspect , except that one.

I don't really take the time and effort to be snarky on a recovery forum , just to for the sake of it .

I'm just wondering, is it possible that what you're missing, by reading links and books and thinking, is meetings and a sense of personal fellowship? There are lots of meetings that aren't AA, and AA wasn't my choice either, but for example SMART has lots of face-to-face meetings, and in some parts of the country Lifering does too. There are also outpatient medical treatment meetings, and I still occasionally (few times a year) stop by a drop-in meeting after 7+ years just to kinda remind myself of where I used to be so I don't forget. Online forums like this are great, but many (most?) people do better if they include face-to-face contact and a sense of accountability to other people they personally know. Just what I've experienced and seen with others, and sounds like might be missing from what you described above?

Hi Tyler.

Do you want to stop drinking? I’m not being snarky, just seriously asking. Because if you really want to stop more than you want to drink you will succeed.

Allen. Carr’s book on controlling alcohol changed the way I viewed alcohol and drinking it. Maybe you could read it. The book This Naked Mind is a modern take of Carr’s stuff plus a lot of other stuff.

I just hope you stop drinking if that is your goal. It is completely possible. I’ve done it for years now and am completely happy with my decision. It is wonderful to know that I never have to drink that muck again. And neither do you.

Hi Tyler,

I hope you are doing ok today and I agree with the others, you need to switch your mindset and decide that you are done with it no ifs, no buts and no "expecting pot oil in the mail" :)

Speaking of which, I would strongly recommend that you either trash it immediately without opening the package or if you have a friend who is in chronic pain/terminally ill you just give it to them as a no strings attached present.
You just got to start again from a clean slate.

You asked about personal experience, here is mine in a nutshell:

I was sober for 5 years with the 12 steps, moved and had a very rough time in life (I lost everything and became homeless in sobriety)
My AV told me that since things sucked, I might as well drink because homelessness and poverty was not supposed to happen to an educated, sober, middle class woman.

I was really unprepared at the time (I had no clue about the AV etc... I very rarely had any manifestation of it and did not know about SR) and felt for its lies.

Long story short, I managed to get back out of my material hole; got a job I love, got a home, made friends in my new city but I drank for about 6 years.

Despite what I was told, I did not go back drinking as bad as I was before (alcoholism did not progress) and mostly I managed to "control" it which was in itself a full time job.
I was a closet drinker and drinking made me extremely depressed. Deep down, I knew it was a matter of time before I lost "control" and showed up hungover at my job or before people realized I was a drunk.
I felt like crap about myself and was borderline suicidal.

On a Sunday in January 2013 on my day off, I was finishing a beer and realized I had to go buy some more. I really did not feel like getting dressed and going outside and for some reason something clicked in me and I poured down the rest of my beer and said to myself: I am sick and tired of that crap, I am done with it.

I joined SR, went to AA for a few years but also learned about AVRT, Women for Sobriety etc.... A few years ago, I was working on my 11th step and discovered Zen meditation and realized that mindfulness was a better fit for me so I left AA.
It has been over 5 years now that I am comfortably and permanently abstinent

So you see, if I can do it so can you. You just got to be done with it and seriously mean it. No ifs, no buts, no excuses.

You can do it!!!! :hug:

Yes they are, but apparently not enough. I thought had it figured out, but now I think I only have it partially figured out. I really wanted to talk to my therapist about this, but she had to cancel yesterday. I think this is more of a slip due to not dealing correctly with an emotional situation. I need to be more prepared to take this things on in a more healthy manner.

The perceived evangelism rubs me the wrong way. The Big Plan scares me a great deal, commitment of any kind is super hard. All that said, I have made little to no effort to find out more about the program and it is not right to judge without at least finding out what the program is all about. I am going to do that. Thanks for your comments

When I was in inpatient treatment I was exposed to 12-step recovery. There are many things that don't work for me. For starters I don't believe in a higher power and I feel that I am truly the only one who has the power to control my addiction. I also don't make friends very easily, so I have a hard time associating with people at meetings. It is a fine program that helps many people, but I just don't think I am one of them.

The IOP idea is interesting though. I have also participated in these in the past and found that it mostly consisted of filling out worksheets, most of which I had already done in inpatient. They were also very 12 step based. This was a number of years ago and it is my understanding that treatment models have changed quite a bit over the years. My ex-wife is the director of a large substance abuse program and she tells me that is not how they do things anymore, When I was in inpatient I found the group sessions to be the most helpful of anything (especially the mens groups) I appreciate the suggestion and am going to look into this. Unfortunately I live in a small area and SMART or Lifering groups are not an option, but I need to go out and do the work if I am going to find the answers.

Thanks again to everyone for their support and suggestions:thanks

Hi Tyler. It may be possible that the big plan scares the addicted part of you, because that part of you knows a big plan would work. It is terrified of you cutting off its supply.

Permanent abstinence is yours for the taking, if you want it.

While part of the mission of Rational Recovery is to disseminate information on independent recovery, and to make self-recovery through planned, permanent abstinence a viable option to all addicted people everywhere, there is no component of evangelism in AVRT itself. It is simply a technique, synthesized from the experiences of the self-recovered population.

RR is not AVRT, and vice-versa. Use of AVRT is not dependent on spreading the word, or even on affiliating with Rational Recovery in any way. In fact, RR encourages people to move on with life after both addiction and recovery, upon learning AVRT, and to not hang around. Their forums are no longer open, as they once were, and if you subscribe for short time, you won't receive a notice to renew the subscription once it expires.

However, AVRT is a refined logic engine that is finely tuned to identify any thoughts and feelings that support or suggest any possible future use of alcohol and other drugs. It just so happens that much of the conventional wisdom about addiction supports the possible future use of alcohol and other drugs, and those who know AVRT will recognize it as Addictive Voice.

IOPs are all different. I went through two, one I flunked out of and one that saved my life. Neither was 12-step based. The first one catered mostly to down-and-outs who had gone through all kinds of experiences (many associated with meth and heroin) that I couldn't relate to, and did push outside participation in 12-step programs but didn't require it. The second one catered more to middle-age alcohol addicts who I could relate to, and didn't push 12-step at all (though a couple of the counselors individually did). Other IOPs are heavily based around 12-step programs, so it pays to shop around if that's not what you are looking for (it sure wasn't what I was looking for).

I never did inpatient. The first IOP wanted to send me to one, but I didn't really want to go and managed to avoid it by continuing to drink (they required 3 days sobriety before they'd admit you, since they did not have detox facilities). But from what I hear from other folks, it's the same story, pays to shop around.