Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2
 

Continued from http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iscussion.html

This is a thread for discussion on the method of Rational Recovery®, called Addictive Voice Recognition Technique®, or AVRT®, which is described in detail in the following book:

Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2
 

Continued from: Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion

Just to remind everyone of the rules:

As I have been particularly remiss in violating rule 1, I will not be participating in this thread.

I suggest that anyone interested in discussing any topic not directly related to the practice of AVRT do the same.

Sorry. It remained closed when I copied it.

I have a question: once someone has been practicing AVRT for some time do you sometimes forget that you use it? Right now, for me, I think about it a lot as it's a relatively new thing and I'm still honing it. While it is very simple I wouldn't yet describe it as effortless as I have to keep screening my thoughts for Beast activity.

Kanamit,

I've been using it for almost four years now. It does get automatic, it seems to me. I rarely have a thought about drinking and don't feel concerned when I have to be around alcohol. I am often in business situations where drinking is going on. It happens so smoothly in my mind, it doesn't even pop up. I don't have alcohol in my house and prefer social situations that are alcohol free.

hope this helps!

lenina

Thanks for the reply, very useful.

Funnily enough, I find it easier when around others drinking as the language they use to justify it and the things they do once drinking remind me of the reason I quit. Beast activity is biggest when I'm on my own.

I'm interested in AVRT users who have read the Allen Carr book. How do you use them together? I like the feel good factor of Carr but it's not watertight like AVRT.

Thanks, Lenina, I love hearing from others who've used AVRT for a while.

Well I use AVRT in the sense that I identify The Beast and Addictive Voice activity. I read Carr's book about 1 year ago and it kept me thinking logically about alcohol for about 4 months. However, for me, the reframing of how I thought about alcohol wasn't probably enough of a tool to help me when I was overcome by really strong thoughts to drink. So, let's just say that Carr's book got me started on the path that for me, what was needed was a change in thinking when it came to alcohol (literally). I saw booze in a whole new light. But recognizing an actual Addictive Voice that I can separate as not being the real me has been what I believe really keeps me in control and ahead of this thing. Every bit helps.

Everything you wrote is obvious AV, but the highlighted parts are classic AV, which will always try to conceal the real purpose of drinking/using, which is to get that deep pleasure; feel good all over. You don't drink to relax, to cope, or any other reason. They are all excuses. Once you accept this, AVRT will become much, much easier.

Think to yourself "IT is lying, IT wants that deep pleasure. Too bad for IT, because I never drink."

This is also a good time to re-state your Big Plan, which has five words, just like your hand. Try saying them once per finger, so that when you get to "never," you send a fitting message to the SOB. If you have any doubts as to who is in control, wiggle your fingers, then stop and look at your hand. Challenge the Beast, over which you are supposedly powerless, to do the same.

Think "OK, mighty Beast, if you can wiggle my fingers, I'm going to get loaded real good." Of course, IT won't be able to do that, which should remind you that the Beast (addictive desire) is a quadriplegic, and cannot do anything without your consent. You are in charge.

As Lenina pointed out, yes, AVRT does become automatic the more you use it. It is also the case that the more you abstain, the weaker the Beast becomes, so that it will pop up less and less frequently. In other words, you won't have to use AVRT as often. As long as you never feed the Beast again, the game is rigged in your favor.

I actually have to think about this a little when responding to posts here, because while I remember there being about four-five months of insane, daily Beast activity when I quit, the actual subjective experience is not quite as fresh in my mind. I did get lots of practice during that time, though.

If you think you drink to "cope" or to deal with stress, etc, recall the last time you had a bad day at work and decided to go to the bar afterward. Do you remember what you were feeling as you were driving to the bar? I'm willing to bet that you were so focused on anticipating that drink that your mood was elevated, even before you had your first drink. In other words, even while your BAC was zero, the original reason (excuse) for drinking became irrelevant. So, ask yourself: if you were already feeling good, did you really need that drink to cope, or was it your Beast that wanted a drink?

See "Figure 4: The Feeling of Alcohol" on page 183 of "RR: TNC" for a nice illustration of this phenomenon.

I hadn't discovered AVRT when I quit, so I had no name for the voice in my head. My beast was skillful and cunning. It was 6 weeks in before I could drive home from work without being reminded that the liquor store was just a quick left turn across that parking lot. Over the next several months I heard the voice less and less, but I kept my visual reminders around me.

At about 6 months in I accidentally googled RR. I incorporated AVRT into my thought processes and never looked back. My beast still tries me from time to time. It's almost always when I'm tired, frustrated, and/or angry on my way home from work. "You've had such a hard day and you work so hard. You deserve something to take the edge off."

Edit: Sorry for the long-winded answer. AVRT is rarely a conscious thought for me. I must attend business functions where cocktails are served and I have also been to reunions and parties that included alcohol. I still ramp up my beast radar in those environments and probably always will.

Thanks for the answers.

How does AVRT work if you still think there is some pleasure in alcohol? I.e. that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

As I've mentioned before what helped me was Allen Carr's EasyWay in which he claims there are no advantages to drinking alcohol. Not everyone will agree with Allen Carr in this but I do. So alcohol is simply something I never want in my system and AVRT ensures it never gets there.

However, if you think that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages is it not possible for you (not the Beast) to feel like you're missing out on the pleasurable, advantageous effects alcohol brings?

I can't speak for what you are feeling. In myself, I would identify feelings "like you're missing out on the pleasurable, advantageous effects alcohol brings" as BEAST AND ONLY BEAST!

For me, alcohol is no longer pleasurable. It still may be pleasurable for The Beqst, but not for me. So it doesn't matter because I will never drink again.

Lenina

It was probably a stupid question in hindsight. After all, once you have a Big Plan, whether you find alcohol pleasurable or not is irrelevant.

Lenina has it right. If you made a Big Plan, obviously you don't want to drink anymore, nor do you feel that the advantages of drinking outweigh the disadvantages. Otherwise, you wouldn't have made a Big Plan. Through your human eyes, alcohol is poison, responsible for all those bad things that happened. Through your Beast's eyes, though, alcohol is life. Never allow your Beast to take control of the pronoun "I" - always attribute good feelings toward alcohol/drugs to "IT".

Spend some time shifting back and forth between the two mindsets to get the idea. Read pages 202-203 ("Shifting") in conjunction with the Relapse Anxiety Grid on Page 190. Actually, I would commit the bottom chart to memory. You may also want to read "Aggressive Listening" and "Attack your Beast" on Pages 205-206.

The split is the key. Visualize the Beast if you have to. Here's a picture to help you.

http://www.openclipart.org/image/250...vil_s_Eyes.png

I have a picture of myself at my drunkest and fattest on my computer desktop and it serves as a good reminder of what my Beast looks like.

I've been finding it much easier to cut any stirring off even before it has the chance to become a thought. I dont take it seriously either.

I also have a Pros of Abstinence versus Cons of Abstinence wall chart up. Pros 15 - Cons 0.

More Beast Bait
 

The list is probably endless, but here are some typical examples:

1. Better job.
2. Nicer boss.
3. More supportive friends/family.
4. Less stress.
5. New BF/GF.

One section of the AVRT crash course at the website says this:

Ask yourself, "How bad (depressed, anxious, bored, angry, etc.)
am I willing to get and still not drink/use?

(Hint: Try, "As bad as I feel. That's how bad I can feel and still not drink or use.)

This always stuck in my mind. And it doesn't have be how bad.

How good (celebratory, relieved-after-stress, happy can I get and still not drink/use?
(Hint: As celebratory or relieved or happy as all get out. And still not drink/use).

What I like about AVRT is that the bottom line is that I've been self-indulgent to a degree that is completely out of keeping with my value system. It's not my true self. I've been foolish and know better. So I've told myself: just stop it, stop the nonsense. End this foolish thing.

Hello everyone,

I've been quietly lurking on this thread for some time now. I've been using a personally modified version of the AVRT method for the nearly 4 months that I've not been drinking. The one large omission on my part is that I haven't done the "big plan". The method in and of itself works for me but I haven't gotten to the stage where I'm comfortable with closing that door if you know what I mean.

I have not read the book either and that is really something that I should do.

I just really wanted to thank that members of the thread for the great discussion that I've been witness to. Terminally Unique - you do a great job here and I want you to know how much I appreciate it.

I don't quite understand the controversy with AVRT...I gather there is a history that I was not present for.

Tippingpoint,

I obviously can't make the decision for you, but I will say that you can do much better than "trial basis" abstinence. If you want to, you can walk free, now and forever, and AVRT will let you do that. I've stated before, though, that AVRT is predicated on a Big Plan; no Big Plan, no AVRT. Do take the free crash course at the RR web site and read the book at least.

Welcome to the discussion.

Wow.. I'm absolutely amazed right now. Topspin sent me a PM saying that a few things I'm experiencing are being discussed in this thread. I had no idea that it was so common that someone wrote a book about it.

I suppose that's what I call my beast. About a year or so ago, I recognized that this voice that I though was my own was actually something else. I was pretty scared at first. I actually went to a psychologist once and felt too self conscious, both to bring that up, or to even go back for another session. Eventually, I just got used to it. That's when things got pretty bad. I posted for the first time yesterday, but last night was the first time I ever saw the little kid..

Not an hour goes by without hearing the voice. Some nights I have conversations that last for hours with the voice. A typical conversation will go something like this..

[little kid] Hey! What a rough day huh? You deserve a beer.
[me] Dude, I drank way too much last night and I have to be up early tomorrow.
[little kid] You know for a fact that you'll feel just fine after one drink.
[me] Yeah, I know. But what about tomorrow? I really need to study..
[little kid] You've studied before while drinking, and you weren't nearly as frustrated as you normally get.
[me] Yeah, but I probably don't retain the information as well.
[little kid] You still have good grades right?
[me] It's only the beginning of the semester.
[little kid] Right! So you can afford to slack a little bit.
[me] Yeah right.. normal people don't "slack" 6 or 7 nights a week.
[little kid] What is normal? It's all semantics, media, and medical propaganda. They WANT you to think there's something wrong with you if you have more than a couple beers a week.
[me] Quit being stupid.
[little kid] Ok well what if we got everything on the to-do list done by tomorrow night. We could have a few then right?
[me] There's no way I'll get all of that done by tomorrow.
[little kid] You underestimate me. I'll remind you.
...So on and so fourth

A summary of last night's conversation (right before bed)..

[little kid] You know you can't pull this off right?
[me] What? Quitting? We've already proven I can't cut back. I think quitting will be easier.
[little kid] Lol! So you're going to go through hell, just to end up drinking again a few days from now? Such a waist of time.
[me] We've never tried quitting before. You realize that right? There's nothing to think about when you just quit. No planning times and days. No deciding what gas station to go to. No worrying about being hungover before class. It's just simple.
[little kid] Oh yeah? What are you gonna tell your friends and family when you go home for Thanksgiving? That you're an alkie and you can't drink with them anymore?
[me] I'll worry about that when I get there. I'm just focused on today.
[little kid] You're just wasting your time.. just suffering unnecessarily.
[me] We'll see.

Mr. Average,

I'm glad topspin directed you here. Ordinarily, I would have caught your introductory post and seen the parallels immediately, but lately I've been slacking on reading all of the threads in the newcomers forum. I see that you are a military man, so AVRT may appeal to you, since it is essentially the art of mental combat against the Beast.

The Addictive Voice is universal amongst addicted people. Every single addictions counselor worth their salt is aware of the AV, and you will find many here on SR who reject RR but nevertheless speak of the "addict voice" on a regular basis, without ever giving credit to RR for identifying and naming it, or even mentioning AVRT.

It is getting very late here, and I will respond more in-depth tomorrow. For now, though, I will recommend that you take the free crash course at the RR web site and that you purchase the book, and close with something Jack Trimpey wrote in the Journal of Rational Recovery (issue #84, January-March 2003).

Mr. Average,

You seem to have made significant progress on your own already. Specifically, you have identified the Beast as a separate entity, and it is already talking back at you as a result. Since one of the prime functions of the Addictive Voice is to conceal the existence of the Beast, you are already halfway there. From another post of yours, I can see that you have realized that the Beast, which you refer to as "the little kid," is scared of you now as a result of being found out, which is very good.

If I had to guess, I would say that after some more trial and error, you eventually would have discerned the nuts and bolts of AVRT on your own. Most people start out by arguing back or debating with the AV, but eventually realize that the Beast has no interest whatsoever in what they have to say, except of course to twist things around into an excuse for drinking/using. At that point, they usually see the debating game for the trap that it is and step out of the ring.

Don't debate or argue with the AV, because the Beast cannot be reasoned with. It only knows one answer to all questions, and will play both sides of all arguments in order to fit the addictive mandate (drink/use!). By getting sucked into a debate with the AV, you only give the Beast an opportunity to outwit you, so don't play by its rules. The only words it understands are NEVER AGAIN.

Recognize the Beast for what it is: a ruthless, perverted survival drive that instead of pointing north, towards life, points south, toward the grave. Once born, it is a part of you, and it cannot be reasoned away. It is a deadly enemy that has access to all of your life experiences, so it has your number already. Your job is to figure out its number, and the Rational Recovery book will help you speed things up in this respect.

In the meantime, always remember that you are dealing with an enemy that will surely kill you if you don't kill it first. You must become just like it in order to defeat it. No matter what IT throws at you, recognize IT, expose IT, and show IT no mercy. Abstain.

"The Beast" - From RR: TNC, Pages 239-240
 

Excerpted from Pages 239-240 of:

"Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" by Jack Trimpey
Copyright © 1996 by Jack Trimpey and Lois Trimpey

Ok, admitting that I STILL haven't read the book beyond about 80% (seriously, busy week)...BUT...doesn't anyone ever get tired of constantly negating their Beast? Is this because I'm new/doing it wrong/have 20% more reading to do? Seriously, I had a good weekend and now the damn thing doesn't shut up...EVER. lol It's wearing me down.

It's like this...

It: Just think how comforting it would be to go back home and drink the night away!
Me: I will never drink again and I will NEVER change my mind.
(silence and then 2 minutes later)
It: Yeah, but you're gonna have a sweet new deck on your house this weekend and wouldn't it just be great to break it in with a few cold ones?
Me: I'm a normal human being that doesn't drink alcohol; I will never drink again and I'm not changing my mind.
(silence and then 2 minutes later)
It: It's not like you need to be abstinent NOW, how about next week instead when life isn't so crazy?
Me: Shut Up!!!!!

And repeat...lol

Just thought I'd ask. :)

April,

Try not answering at all.

My Beast got tired of my saying "F*ck off!" and retreated into the corner, which is where he stays. I think one of his legs got broken a long time ago, and every time he tries to limp out of the corner, I just think he looks pathetic. He's learned not to come out any more.

FT