HI Daredevil,

I think you should drop the philosophical theory and speak in layman's words, not like the philosophical mumbo-jumbo like used in philosophy does anyone hear the sound of a tree falling if there is is no one around to hear it.Who cares the tree fell, I suggest you read the big book of AA it's not a theory of mythical creatures called alcoholics it's about real people who tell their stories as it is. No fancy words and the only thing that matters is you stay sober and you do not need the Rosetta stone to decipher it.

I have been sober, jhonnyspa, for over 4 months.
I’ve also read the first 164 pages of the Big Book thoroughly.
AA has its benefits, and I also go to meetings.
My issue isn’t entirely philosophical—it’s real.
Sobriety is the cornerstone, but now I have to tackle the other issues that bother me.

That's right!

But you can google Camus "the Stranger" for exisistentalism and Chris Germer for mindfulness. If you are such inclined. They make no claims to cure any addiction however. Only you can. Stick with a recovery plan and look up the threads here.

Hi daredevil,

I sincerely applaud you for your 4 months of sobriety but the fact you say "My issue isn’t entirely philosophical—it’s real" suggests to me that you know you are using philosophy to figure out a real problem, which is why I suggest you leave philosophy out and focus on how you have managed to stay sober this long and not why, where, when.Stick to a simple plan of whatever works and I suggest not to over think things.Good luck on your journey.

To me you're hiding behind fancy words and completely overthinking it..4mo is great! But, why not 'dumb it down' a notch or two..seek some therapy for the underlying issues that lead you to the drink/obsession? When I overthink anything, I get confused and whatever 'subject' I'm thinking about becomes blurred. Basically..simple math is how I approach my sobriety.

I found the best thing I could have done for my mental health was quit drinking - nothing gave me more existential malaise than getting drunk. Good lord I could be downright morose.

Now that I've quit I can still go through bouts of melancholy, I think I've always carried some sadness around with me. I find gratitude for what I have helps, also having a sense of reverence for my gift of life. It really is amazing that we are alive here on planet Earth - as far as we know we are on the only living planet. I try to remind myself that I've one shot at this life - it's not a dress rehearsal - this is it.

Laughter is also the best medicine for a gloomy mood.

Music! If I didn't have music I don't what I'd do sometimes. Turn that sh*t up! And then get your boogey on.

Exercise.

Being out in nature. Personally I love being near water.

Overthinking things has allowed me to figure out what works and what doesn't. I've never understood why people advise against it. Thinking for oneself is one of the best things one can do for one's recovery, IMO.

Whenever I find myself overthinking, which I can do at the drop of a hat. I remind myself that imagining my thought process will lead to a grand finale decision that will never change and must be correct, is misguided at best.

Also, it is time taken away from actively participating in my life because as I am busy ruminating, my life is happening full blast and valuable teachers may go unnoticed.

DD, this thread has brought up a lot of stuff for me, it asks some great questions. I have been thinking a great deal about what has been raised here, and will come back later to reply in depth when I have some more time..I could write for pages on this (don’t worry folks I won’t).

For now I will note that your journey so far and way of thinking strongly parallels my own.

I swapped Recovery for abstinence.....then on the back of abstinence I rebuilt my life. A life not defined by recovery and being an ex-alcoholic: but simply being a person who was once addicted, who stopped drinking and moved on to better pastures.

that sure sounds like recovery of a former addict to me! recovery is all about rebuilding one's life and NOT drinking EVER.
i can't see any difference in the term EX-alcoholic and once addicted.

That statement was well articulated by another poster in permalink #33.
It makes perfect sense to me, FWIW.

I also find this way of looking at it to make sense. It's the idea that we are not in a permanent state of "recovery" any more than an ex-smoker is in permanent state of "recovery" from tobacco.

Perpetual recovery, of the sort you allude to, is something I’m leaning further away from.

I find I suffer from this when my life has become really superficial and there's not enough meaning in it, and I'm not really "living". I suppose that's why it's easy to turn to booze, because it liberates you from the boredom and dissatisfaction of existence, makes you feel invincible, like you can be anyone and do anything. But as you said, it just exacerbates the hole in your soul, makes you more aware of the meaninglessness of everything. Maybe you need to look at your life and make some changes. If you could design your life in such a way that you would be completely happy, and there were no limits, what would it look like? Ask yourself this and maybe write it down. Then write down what your life is currently like. What are the discrepancies there and what can you change?

Great insight, newlyaddicted.

Great thread DD.....as always you prompt thought and discussion :). Maybe there is meaning in that, eh?

I am not feeling overly philosophical at this point in my life. Maybe there is a level of acceptance and peace with my surroundings that I couldn't see in my 30's and 40's. A level of acceptance with myself that life and it's meaning is actually right in front of me. Simple stuff. I helped pay for some kids groceries today cause they were short 9 bucks. I dunno. They were so grateful, and it was no big deal. But it was meaningful.

I just spent 8 days taking care of my parents. Father has Werneckes, mom has severe dementia. She is losing language. It is.....stunning. I worked my ass off. Yard work, house work, cooking, shopping. Took a bunch of chemicals, old paint, I mean 5 decades of shlit, to the waste disposal place. There is so much to do. I'll be back in June for 2 weeks. Again in August. In one year, when my kid leaves for school, I'll be their full time care giver....assuming they are alive....which, who knows. They ponder their death daily. They talk about it. They are scared. It's.....emotional to say the least. My mom, not a real warm lady, held on to me like a small terrified child the night before I left. Never has this happened. She told me, in her poorly formed broken words that she needed me. I went to the bathroom and cried my eyes out. My parents, always seeking, always wanting more, always comparing, always envious. Always drinking. Now they just want another day.

Seeing the elderly makes things real clear. Life is love and love is life. And it ends without much ceremony. Now is it. And IT is.

when my life has become really superficial and there's not enough meaning in it,

do you ever go outside in the early morning and just listen to the world come awake? watch as daylight slowly takes over the black? see the trees explode with leaves? or even inhale deeply that latte you got on the way to work?

all of that happens without our participation whatsoever. life goes on. big life. you want meaning? watch this little kid make his RUN to home plate. dude has game - his life is neither superficial or lacking meaning.

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2018...baseball-video

[QUOTE=AnvilheadII;6880990]when my life has become really superficial and there's not enough meaning in it,

do you ever go outside in the early morning and just listen to the world come awake? watch as daylight slowly takes over the black? see the trees explode with leaves? or even inhale deeply that latte you got on the way to work?

all of that happens without our participation whatsoever. life goes on. big life. you want meaning? watch this little kid make his RUN to home plate. dude has game - his life is neither superficial or lacking meaning.

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2018...baseball-video

That comes down to mindfulness doesn't it? Being present in the moment and enjoying the peace, quiet and serenity of nature, a sunrise etc. I agree it's important to try to do something like that every day. It's hard to be in the moment sometimes when you're always thinking about the next thing you have to do, you know, caught up in the dull minutia of daily life. And sometimes it's not enough when you're dissatisfied with your life overall and don't feel like it turned out the way you wanted it to. Yep, great being a kid. You don't have to worry about finding meaning in life, kids live moment to moment! They don't have to worry about making big life decisions yet.

It's hard to be in the moment sometimes when you're always thinking about the next thing you have to do, you know, caught up in the dull minutia of daily life

its hard but not impossible.

And sometimes it's not enough when you're dissatisfied with your life overall and don't feel like it turned out the way you wanted it to
and ya have the power to change for a better future,right?


i was starting to reconstruct my life after years of destruction and things were getting better. then diagnosed stage 3 metastaic melanoma less than a year into recovery. that wasnt part of my plan. 2 1/2 year battle that invlolved 5 surgeries, a clinical trial, 2 rounds of chemo, uncounted PET and Ctscans, MRI's,xrays, tests tests tests, visits to the oncologist, and a pretty healthy debt.
and still able to be greatful for the small things.
finding gratitude doesnt mean everythings sunshine,rainbows, and sparkle farting unicorns( because that just aint how life is), but it sure helps me see how the dull minutiae things aint worth my time.
plus, what i went through was NOTHING.
the parents of the children i saw at the cancer center- parents whose children may never run bases. children that may never get to experience their first kiss, getting their drivers license, first paycheck, graduation...... all them firsts....
it put into perspective just what a selfish whiney little brat i could be.

i once was mad because i had no shoes
until i saw a man that had no feet.

going to take my dog for a walk now and smile as he goes bonkers smelling everything possible.

I led a very superficial life and 'strived for it'. Nice house,cars,'toys',hot blonde gf,nice clothes,car(s),watch/gun collection,ect.. I still have all of those things(minus the gf..she still wanted to party)..thing is now,I don't strive/live for it(things). I could live in a tent or sleep on the ground and be content. I just live in the moment and cherish every moment I'm given. I was thinking, A LOT, at 4mo sober,so I get where you're at with your thoughts..I'm like 15-16mo sober now. I don't do the 'recovered/recovery' thing/thinking..I just don't drink. like I said..simple math.