I'm here...
 

Bob (CRS3),

At your request I've read all your posts in this section. First I want to say that I'm here for you unconditionally. Second I want to thank all who have supported my friend. It is wonderful to know that there are people who love others.

I don't know what to say at this point accept to reiterate my unflinching committment to you Bob.

Having read all the posts I'm humbled to be here with my friend.

Blessings to all,

Jeff (js5owner)

Welcome Jeff. You add a dimension to our friend Bob.
And I'm glad to see he has support close by.

Thanks Jeff,
I already emailed you my response so I'll just say as Dan put it, "it brings a
whole new dimension this time around"
I have very little time today,work is just crazy. Thats the way ot goes.
Gotta work.
But I do want to share a couple of things. I know Im wordy at times but it's
necessary for me to do this. Those who take the time to read great,if not
thats ok too.

I got a call last night on my way home from work(seems I always get these calls driving home from work) a childhood friend(actually a childhood friends
brother) has killed himself. This is a family that practically raised me at one point in my early years. He hung himself in his apartment after a fight with his
girlfriend. My heart aches for the family and the pain they are going through.
Like I said after my aunt died last month,it just reminds me how fragile life is.
And how we sometimes freely abuse it. We never know from one second to the next if our life will suddenly end. With my lifestyle over the years Im a walking heart attack just waiting to happen and yet I continue to abuse this life willingly and freely. It helds me put into perspective whats important and
whats not. For those of us with addiction problems there seems to be a self
destruct button somewhere that we learned long ago. I know I am in a self destruct mode. I dont think it's so important how it got there but what is important is that I find out how to stop it and how to keep my fingers off the button. Since I know I cannot do this alone my only conclusion is that it's a spritual issue. Not a lack of character or desire but spiritual. Only a force more powerful than my own strength can achieve this. AA people call it your
higher power. I call it my God. My Lord, who is watching and wanting the best for me. But He can only do so much until I surrender to Him completely.
When I say that, it's just Ive heard that so many times before,I dont know
HOW to actually do this. I think it boils down to "I dont know how to love"
To really love. And if you cant love you also dont know how to receive love.
In order to surrender to something or someone completely you have to be able to trust and love that person. Whenever I think Im doing something for someone out of love,when I search hard enough it's usually all about me.
I give to get back. Even if it's something harmless like giving flowers to my wife. I see her enjoyment in this and I get a response back. SO am I doing because I lover her or am I doing it because I love me and want the attention
that act will bring me. Not true love. The things I try to do for God are usually only to get something back in return. Thats not true love. Thats not
surrender therfore it's not real. Psycho babble. But necessary for me right now. Ive strayed from my original point but, what the hell.
Bob

Bob,
Surrender is letting go completely. That requires trust. Trust that HP is going to help you do what you can't do alone. It's kind of like free falling and having faith that your parachute is going to open. For me it's a matter of faith.
As to the love part of all this, I don't think you can really love someone else unless you know how to love yourself. Part of learning to love yourself is wanting a better, healthier life. Both physically and emotionally. It's hard for anyone to think they deserve to be loved when they are indulging in self-defeating behaviors.
Love, trust, serenity...those are just some of the gifts of recovery. And recovery comes one step at a time. Combine those good things with the beautiful people in the program and it makes recovery something mighty attractive, don't you think?
Hugs,
Gabe

Bob :banana:

I understand what your saying. I wondered the same thing. God is trying to tell you something, but you keep letting the rescue boat row by. :sink Jump in the boat and you will see. There is certain serenity that you experience after handing your life over. You will be guided along the correct path. All you have to do, is ask for guidance.

You already know the answer. Just do it and then judge for yourself on how you feel. I was pretty freaked out about the whole process, but know laugh and wonder why? Fear of the "unknown" is all. It was so simple and rewarding. You don't have to change being you and become a holy man and, sit on top of the mountain. I"m sure as heck not. You'll still be you, but with an inner peace. Find a sponsor you feel comfortable with and they will walk you through it.

I don't want to come off as preachy, but I do feel certain there is peace rather then uncertainy now. There is hope.

Good luck and take care,

Talia :rose

Thank You, Bob
 

Hey--my name is Laura and I am an alcholic. Such simple words with such profound meaning. I came to this thread about four hours ago and just finished reading all the posts. There is some really powerful stuff here. Bob, it's true that you cannot love anyone else until you learn to love yourself. My AA group tells me they will love me for me until I can do it myself. I heard you say you were disgusted by your first AA meeting. Have you tried any others? I know it is hard to do, but for me it has been a life-saver. I just want you to know the courage and strength I see in your posts. I haven't even had time today to look at any other threads. I was obsessed by this one. I have 141 twenty-four hours today, and reading all of that just reminded me how desparately I want to stay sober. Keep hangin' in there, man. We're all right behind you.

And since it hasn't been said in a while......

"Whatever you do, DON'T FALL!!!"

Thanks for the responses and words of wisdom. Ya know, I think I need to lighten up a bit. Im waayyy to serious sometimes. It's only here that I get in touch with the real heavy crap thats on my mind. Makes it a little boring sometimes.
A thought just popped into my head. When My Father-in-law first started living with us almost 10 yrs ago(he passed away last Oct:( My wife and I were sitting in the kitchen and he had just came home from playing golf.
He walked in the door and our jaws hit the floor. He was wearing this bright red sweat shirt that came down to about his belly button AND NOTHING ELSE. Nope, not a stitch. Bare ass naked. Well, he continued to walk down the hall and into his room. That meant he walked from his car into the house like that. We thought " Good God what is this about" When I went in to ask
him what happened he told me"Well I was on the 17th hole and I S#it all
over myself. Thought I was just gonna fart Damnit. I didnt have any other clothes so someone gave me this sweatshirt so I played out the 18th hole and came on home" So, he played the 18th hole flapping free. He was quite
a character. I miss him.
Oh well. See im just a free typer. Could get me in trouble.!!
Anyway I think maybe Im thinking too deeply too fast. I guess Im looking at a big picture when I should be looking at the main problem right now.
Thats basically what I got from the advice above and will consider it carefully.
It's like a garden full of weeds and alcohol is just one of the weeds. ( I will post what I mean by this next.)

Gabe-yes, mighty attractive. Thats what draws me back to this site again and again. Maybe I need to just start with trying to recover before moving to something bigger. I dont know yet.

Talia,
Good advice. Im not wanting to be a holy man and sit on top of a mountain.
But my end result "is" to try and be a holy MAN. There is a difference. But the advice I will treasure from you is that I need to "jump in the boat"
first. And Im going to try another AA meeting and Im going to get a sponsor.
I think to talk to someone who's been there and can see the mental games
clearly is definately a must.
And you can be preachy to me anytime you want.

Laura,
Nice to meat you.
Congrats on 141 days(i cant comprehend that yet) And thanks for your support and advice. Thanks for the dont fall reminder

I remember a line from the Don Hendly(?) song
"the more I know the less I understand" It's more like the more I know the
more I know I dont know or understand.
But Im going to keep trying. I'll also start trying to make my posts a little
shorter. I know it makes it hard to follow.
Thanks all
Bob

You sure about that Bob:biglaugh:
Sounding good today bro.
Real good.

This is from the second person I trust most. He also is the same guy who
was rockclimbing with me from the "DONT FALL" story.
I just wanted to share it with you.
I only have two real friends I trust. But what friends they are!!!!
I am a lucky man
Prayers to all
Bob

I’m very glad you trust me, Bob. I suppose our 43 year history has some real value here. I promise you I won’t purposely put forth something fake just to answer a difficult question or look spiritual for you. We’re talking about life, and I’ve come to have a lot of respect for discussions about life. It’s just too important to play around with. We’re about half way through life, and I sure don’t want to squander my time on misplaced self esteem issues or bank my eternity on false beliefs. I’ve considered the alternatives to the Christian faith as we know it. And, I’m willing to chuck it all if I don’t find it to be true. I’m not willing to go down with the ship even if everybody close to me is on it. I’d go back and tell them all what I’ve discovered. I think I’ve proven I’m willing to go against the grain if I believe in my cause. But, I haven’t found anything but truth when it comes to the authenticity of the Bible and the gospel of Jesus Christ. As far as I can see, nothing else out there even begins to make sense.



Let me explain my thoughts on doing good things for selfish reasons. I don’t think it’s necessarily all good or all bad. We have varying degrees of faith, and mature over time. The scripture about spewing the lukewarm water is a common misunderstanding of the history behind the statement. I don’t remember all the details, but it goes something like this. The city had an aqua-duct, so the cold water was used for drinking and hot water was used for cooking and probably hot drinks. So, the lukewarm water was useless. Therefore the statement about spewing the lukewarm water wasn’t referring to mediocre growth, but to living a useless life. We have to grow in our spiritual walk through the medium range before getting to a higher range. I was so relieved when I learned about that. The statement never made sense to me. Anyway, I was saying that your motive to do good, but with selfish purposes is probably not all good or all bad. The fact you desired to do good at all has to tell you something. I visualize our lives like a yard. Before we’re saved it’s full of weeds, which stand for lies. When we accept Christ, a flower is planted. Our goal of course, is to water and reproduce the flowers. They represent the truth. We desire to stop watering the weeds and pull them, but we believe in them. We grew up with them. We have faith that they’ll bring us happiness. But, as we look upon the beauty of the flowers in our life, we sometimes determine that we’ll put our faith in God and trust that He is the way to happiness. So, we begin to water the flowers and withhold water from the weeds. Over time the weed begins to die and the flower grows and may even reproduce more flowers, which in turn chokes out some of the smaller weeds. We may even go in and pull a weed, but unless we plan more flowers another will probably quickly grow in its place. If we were to look at Christ’s yard, it would be full of blooming flowers. We have the same spirit Christ had, but he never grew any weeds and put all His faith in the flowers. We have to stop believing in the weeds. So, when you find a weed amongst your flowers (selfishness along with the good urge), it’s because you have a flower of truth being invaded by the weeds of doubt and selfishness. So what do you do? Water the flowers! They’re there. I can see them in your life. You have changed immensely over the years. So you have a big weed – alcohol. And a big weed – selfishness. That doesn’t mean you don’t have big flowers – a deep love for your family. A big flower – a deep desire to do what is right. Thank God for the flowers in your life. Only He can make them grow. But, only you decide what gets watered. I believe the key issue is faith. We water that which we believe in most. The weeds have served us well. You’ve believed in the lie of alcohol for a long time. The feeling it gives you must be the closest thing to peace you’ve found. But, it’s a lie. True peace is a flower, not a weed. And flowers come from God and are grown by the Spirit. I believe you can replace your weed with a flower. Oh by the way, your weed has bark and a 9 foot diameter base…



I love you Bob

Bob,

Sounds like you're having a good day!

I was interested in your post why we do things. Do we offer love just to get something in return. One thing that has become particularly important to me in sobriety is intention. One of the reasons I began drinking was because I was doing many things for many of the wrong reasons - because I had to or because I thought I should, etc. Now, I try (not always sucessfully) to consider the intention behind my words, thoughts, actions. It's made me aware of my manipulativeness. When I became aware of the intention behind my actions, it changed my behaviour.


Love, Anna

:hmmm: Dan remember Fred? Meet Ed.


Talia :sad:

Hmm Ed huh? Maybe I should rethink this!

Anna,
Thats good advice and you said in a few words what it took me a page to
get get to. Thanks

I think what I am doing know is trying to gather momentum like I did the
first time. My mind is just in overdrive. The first time it was due to how I felt phycically and the fear of the unknown. Now it's because of how Im starting to feel physically and fear of the known and the unknown. Ive noticed when I get scared my brain and my fingers tend to rattle on and on. When I become silent though it's usually because Ive stopped all rational thinking. So this is better. I am leaving for Lake Havasu tonight and will not be back until
Sunday. No computers, no cell phones, no work, hopefully no stress.
We'll see what happens. Thanks for all the support since I shot off the
flare gun.
CRS

Hey Bob,
That flare gun was not a one time deal.
Have a good time at the lake.
Rest, relax, regroup.
Should you need your friends, send up another flare buddy.
We're only a heartbeat away.
Gabe

Powerful stuff in your thread. :wave: Loving yourself is very meaningful to me. find it easlier to do now that I am not using..Just got a job and have been sleeping on my daughters floor, so HP must be rewarding my efforts... almost 58 yrs OLD! feel time is running out for me. Have a great time at Havasu. randa

Day 1
 

Thakns all,
I did have a good time. Too good.(for the wrong reasons and Im paying for it)
Thanks for all the comments.
Randa, Nice to meet you.
Good luck to you. I have not read a post of yours but it would appear
you have had a pretty tough time. Im humbled by your comment
"sleeping on my daughters floor" (sigh) Congrats on your job and i hope
you are doing well and will continue to post here.
On your HP. My HP(God) has already rewarded me more than I could ever
pay back. I only need to learn how to except it. And to learn the extant
of that love.
Day one. I dont really need to say anymore here for you all to know how I am feeling right now. I know it's only just begun. Would appreciate your prayers
Bob

Hey Bob, you know you have my prayers.
I'll throw in a hug too, for good measure.
Here's to new beginnings.

I'm ready.

Gabe,Dan
Thanks. It's a little different this time around. Im coming off alcohol plus the
meds that made coming off the alcohol easier. Physically it's not very bad right now but I have a feeling it's just around the corner. The Monkey's just not quite awake yet.I really did a number on myself this last weekend. Im just so tired. Physically and mentally. I realize
I need to be careful. Along with this tiredness is a real sense of hopelessness. Thats not a good combo.
Im hangin for now. And praying. Im glad your all out there!
Bob