Wow, HereIAm, that is incredible and the best way to look at HP without having to give up self or believe in a deity that I've ever encountered. Thank you for that!

Hmmm. I just realized how dangerously close the words "Alcoholic" and "Catholic" are!

I wonder if the early AA's PLANNED it that way!?

Sorry. I just had to add to the utter stupidity of some of the things that I have read over the past few days. And NOT by the OP's, so don't be dogging me out on that one.

Zube

Lyoness, you're very welcome!!! :) I'm glad it helped!

See? Love WORKS!

I think resistance to the God thing is about control. I hated admitting that I was not in control or that I needed help. I don't believe in God the way mainstream religions see Him/it/whatever but it was very, very useful for me to stop trying to be in control and let something bigger than myself (still figuring out what, lol) be in control. My advice? You don't have to take it as seriously as everyone in AA does. Let go and work the program.

I'm a non-theist. I learned a lot about myself by the things in 12 step that made me cringe, angry, resist or sour over. Those things have helped me in my recovery.

I am STILL a non theist, those things didn't make me believe in a god, but they were useful just the same.

Both the things I gravitated towards and the things that sent me flying in the opposite direction spitting angry taught me a great deal about myself and my relationship to everything and everyone.

Even if you choose to not use a 12 step, may as well make use of your experience and reaction to further your recovery.

I've told this story before and gotten flack for it, but here it is. I had a staunch atheist friend...maybe anti theist is more accurate. She refused to pray to god, and was told it didn't matter WHAT she prayed to. So she decided to use a doorknob as her HP. She said she was shocked that it worked.

It's a mental exercise. Most of us are hardwired for some sort of spirituality. The ability of seeing things from both an inner and outer perspective can help us navigate life. Most spiritual programs help a person develop a larger perspective on life and their relationship to it/others/themselves. It works for many people.

If my brain has a way out hard wired into it, I'm not going to refuse to apply it and spite myself. That's my bottom line.

My friend was fully aware that her doorknob had no supernatural power, and that it was her excercising this portion of her brain, giving up the obsessive need to control, understand etc (that drove her to addiction in the first place) and practicing "letting go" that helped her.

She was a trained psychologist and therapist.

I spoke to a guy who was a race car enthusiast. He said he envisioned God with a bottle of nitrous oxide - not as a drug for himself but because it makes the engines on cars go faster. Whatever works.

I still haven't formulated what constitutes a God of my understanding. I don't understand it and I can't feel it. But I do know that people need other people. So, if that's an indirect way of expressing love from HP, then that's enough. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

There's no possible way I would still be drawing breath if it weren't for other people. I'm not cut out for living in a cave by myself painted with ash. That's not really living for me, but some people do it... literally.

There's a film called "The Last Man on Earth." Actually he was not the last man in fact. He had designed the weapon that wiped out the majority of the populace. He could inhabit any mansion he wanted because they were unoccupied. But he was lonely and would set up cardboard cutouts of world figures in the yard and give speeches to them.

Finally he did run into a few survivors and one of them said, "I miss people... smelly noisy people."

There's a story about a guy who was trapped on his roof in a flood. A rescue helicopter came and he turned it down because he was waiting for God. A boat came and he turned it down for the same reason.

When he raised his hands to the sky and asked, "God, where are you?" God said, "I sent you a helicopter and a boat. What more do you want?"

I don't believe in a "God", I believe in the universe-whatever's out there. I accept that there is a force that is bigger than me and that can influence my life one way or another, be it random . . . or not.
I've gotten 14 months under my belt and am going strong, without any help from AA or a "higher power". I did it through my own desire to become sober, and the willingness to do what it takes, through reading, studying, and being insightful and self-aware. Also support from my partner. That being said, believing in a "god" helps some people achieve that. Power to them. Whatever works. It's when AAers say that sobriety can't be achieved without surrendering to a higher power, that bothers me. Especially when statistics show that AA actually has a very low success rate. I know it's a debate, and I'm opening myself up for criticism. I just like to think that I've accomplished what I have through my own strengths and efforts, not because I gave myself over to a higher power.

Congrats on doing it on your own. I'm not here to bash any one system, but I do need the help of my fellow humans. Can't do it by myself. Kudos to you for doing that. I hope you can maintain it.

I've heard that AA has a low success rate. I don't know the stats, but the other programs may have even a lower success rate. I don't want to dissuade anyone from seeking any help that is available.

I'm as far removed from a BB thumper as is imaginable. I've read the Big Book all the way through twice. I met one guy who said he has read it 500 times, not in it's entirety, but he's consulted it that many times.

It's not the Bible for goodness sake. How many times do you have to read any book?

But if it helps you, go for it.

My best wishes for everyone, whichever path you choose.