Why do I cringe at the mention....
 

Of God, the serenity prayer.....any prayer to be honest. I want to get sober but I can't see how to do this without the program and this is always my stumbling block. Or maybe I just use that as an excuse. A wee friend of mine from the fellowship has just been found dead and it's a harsh reminder how serious this is

To me, God is the crutch that isn't there. I fail to accept the presence of a being that is so intensely caring for my well being that has never delivered my "soul". I still suffer the effects of addiction and that is a result of something I didn't ask for. A blood disorder, a chemical imbalance, whatever. This is not something I desired...it came with the package. Can't accept this God concept. I wish it were real, but not for me. Too many holes in the story.

When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the Spirit of the Universe, we had to stop doubting the power of God. Our ideas did not work. But the God idea did.

Big Book pg 52

I know how you feel, I have a hard time praying and all that comes with it. I fully believe in god I just am not good at praying I suppose. I read somewhere to just fake it til you make it. Do the prayers even if you just feel like you're talking to thin air. You'll start to notice a change and it will become more "normal" I have been trying it and it seems to be working day by day. Not all of us have the eye opening spiritual experience that others seem to and that's ok. We are all different and no one way works for all. In my humble opinion I would suggest that you just try it for a week and see if you notice a difference. Good luck my friend and my condolences for your loss. This is definitely a serious issue and one that can be beat 24 hours at a time with some work and faith. I hope this helps.

There's other secular approaches to recovery if it's a real sticking point.

Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Good to see both you guys but IMO,and I'll be blunt:

there's absolutely no reason anyone has to suffer, or even die, because of something like not liking the Serenity Prayer.

If AA's not for you, find something else - if you can't find something else...try harder?

D

search:

AVRT
SMART
Rational Recovery
Women for Sobriety
Life Ring
Power to Quit

:)

If the thought of the "Serenity Prayer" as a prayer bothers you, try thinking of it as a meditation instead. The concept behind the prayer is very valid for many alcoholics. Essentially you are asking for guidance in being able to accept life on life's terms and not trying to control every situation, like we frequently did while ill. There is no requirement that you include the words "God" and "Amen."

I, for one, can attest to the fact that the seeming lack of control over everything in my life contributed greatly to my drinking. Frankly, it is the Serenity Prayer that has really helped me get to Day 26, despite some serious losses I've sustained lately because of my past drinking.

Also check out the secular alternatives to AA as pointed out in previous posts.

I am so sorry about your friend.

God talk rubs me the wrong way as well, and I'm referring to it across the board, not just with AA. The good news is, it's not necessary. There are options, as sugarbear mentioned. I like the ideas behind SMART - it comes from cognitive-behaviorism, which is a field I've studied in.

Thanks for your replies. I understand and can tolerate the serenity prayer to an extent. But the thing is there are good meetings close to me where that is said at the beginning and the 'lords' prayer is said at the end. It makes me want to walk out before the end, because it truly makes my blood boil, but I don't want to appear rude, and I like the people at those meetings. Ah well. I just don't know anymore, 6.45am here and yet again doesn't look like I'll be sleeping, which probably isn't helping the thought process...

Don't let the word God scare you off Eunectes. I am an atheist and go to AA but it is the language of religion I have a problem with. Yep, it makes me cringe too but I try to look past it. You can approach AA in a secular manner and just because you don't like the religious side of it doesn't mean you are banished to the secular alternatives. AA is for everyone. It is a god of your understanding and that can be whatever the hell you want it to be. I bet if you talk to people in your meetings they will have had a similar reaction to you, some of them may be religious or have become so and others won't. We're all different. People in the meetings I go to have often said how much the god thing bothered them when they first got to AA and many have stated that their higher power isn't a creative god... I am lucky in that they don't say the lords prayer where I am, and I bet you could find a meeting in Glasgow where they don't either.

This might help some: 12Steps

Imagine two friends who have a fight or argument, the good relationship they once enjoyed strained to the point of breaking, they crease speaking to each other communication is deemed too awkward, the friends gradually become strangers, such estrangements can only be reversed by reconciliation. To be reconciled is to be restored to friendship or harmony, when old friends resolve their difference and restore their telationship reconciliation has occurred 2 corthians 5: 18-19 declares. "All this is from 'GOD" who reconciled us to him self through christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.

I don't have a problem with the Serenity Prayer. I do cringe at the Lord's Prayer at the end. Just too Christian. I only pray to Jesus when I am worrying if my direct deposit will hit.

I know Bill W. wrote that the Lord's Prayer wasn't a contradiction in the "god of your understanding" thing, but what if a Jew or Muslim is in the room? It is clearly a Christian prayer and it rubs me the wrong way, too. It takes for granted that to buy into spirituality you have to have a Christian concept of a Higher Power. Frankly, it sucks.

But to the OP, don't let it bug you. Latch on to the positive things in the room at the meeting, the fellowship, etc. And as others have suggested, I think you don't have to stray far in the rooms to find others that feel the way you do.

I've been repeatedly among groups of people for other matters who held strong opinions vastly different than mine, and survived the experience without being overcome with angst.

You may have also. Like at a shopping center.

Just as you would not avoid a market that was full of people who subscribed to the latest end of the world certainty if you needed some parsnips for a stew you wanted to enjoy, you may have a personal stake in getting a leg up in sobriety important enough for you to bear being exposed to beliefs other than your own for an hour at a time.

Or you could try to convert them to your viewpoints, but that would make you an irritation and would probably prove out as a useless effort.

You could leave or practice tolerance, or continue to get ruffled...not sure other choices exist.

I like the God thing. Especially after he removed my obsession. That was a miracle.

Blessings,
Zube

I found reading 'Sober for Good' to be very, very helpful.

I'm a sober Atheist in early remission and found sobriety outside of traditional 12 step support.

There are lots of ways to get sober and the book I mentioned, delves into many of them. ( Including AA)

I'm an athiest (agnostic?) member of AA. When I first came in to the rooms, I had that same reaction. I made it a barrier to accepting and taking part in the program. The last time I came in (5/26/12), I was so desperate and I knew I would die eventually if I wasn't able to quit. I forced myself to be openminded and tried to squash any negative/judgemental thoughts about the program. I became willing to listen and tried to get something out of every experience.

A few things that stuck out at me. Someone said that when they came in the drink was higher than them. And that looking around the rooms, they could see that some people had a many long 24 hours put together (long time sobriety). So therefore, they drink was higher than her but that some of the members were higher than that, therefore making GOD (group of drunks) her higher power. I was able to use that idea as my hp at the time. Further, I was able to believe that I am not the highest thing in the universe-seemed arrogant to me. Not sure what is higher-an energy in the universe or something but not me. I also believe that the hp concept is one that evolves over time and does not need to be clearly defined at first (or maybe ever). Since I believe in the group of drunks, I think of the our father prayer as group bonding. I will admit that I'd rather say something different and I do not always say it-only if the mood strikes me. I don't have any problem with the serenity prayer, I just leave off the word god.

Again, this last time I came in the rooms, I was completely down and out. For my own recovery to work at all, I had to overcome a lot of anger which is what you are describing. It wasn't only towards the hp, I hated the happiness and gratitude I saw at AA. I thought it was fake. I hated the words sobriety, sober, grateful, etc. I hated the promises. Thankfully I put aside those thoughts, genuinely listened and did as I was told. I have been sober 7+ months now and have not been happier in as long as I can remember.

I cannot handle the religious aspect at all. It freaks me out as well. But as others have mentioned I make more use of it as meditation. Someone in a meeting said he doesnt actually say "God" grant me the serenity. But just skips the god part. Meditating to something bigger than yourself I find much more easy and useful. Even though I am freaked out because of the god aspect I actually have a copy of the serenity prayer hanging in my house because of the power of the rest of the message.

AA only asks the question if you are willing to believe in a power greater than yourself. I take it like this, if there isn't a power greater than myself, I would have been able to figure out this whole addiction thing and overcome it on my own, with no outside help. I would have been able to think my way out of it, as I tried to for many years. It probably wasn't going to happen. Not really realistic for me to be thinking that self-knowledge will solve my problems.

I don't think you have to believe in God to get sober.

I do believe you have to quit drinking to get sober, though. Whatever efforts that for you, Eunectes, embrace it.

Amen...Here are a couple suggestions for you. Attend the next business meeting of your group and bring up the idea that at the end of your meeting the chair says something like this.

We will close the meeting with the Lord's Prayer..Or your own prayer to be said silently.

Or...You can do like one guy in my homegroup does. He goes out and has a smoke right when it's about to start...Then he hangs around after the meeting and shoots the bull with everyone else. Nobody questions that....Nobody cares....The guy hasn't had a drink in 18 years. I've found in my short time in AA....It tends to work with an open mind....If you want to look for reasons it won't work for you?...I'm sure you could find a ton of them.

My orgininal sponsor does not say the Lords prayer or hold hands and is very anti-Christian yet he has been sober for 36 years and the world is likely ending if he is not at a meeting. Some people think that it is rude but that is their problem not his. It is a higher power of your choice not anyone else's.

My non-christian buddies treat the Lords prayer as a generic prayer that is not associated with Christianity. There is nothing in the prayer that they disagree with and so they like to be part of the group.

I guess you can say I "pray" to myself

the serenity prayer, sans the "God" word can be me reminding myself of something I know is a higher truth than the one I often put into practice.

Same thing with these that I use daily

"help me to not put anything into my body or mind that you would not have there, take all of my relationships and do with them what you will, help me see the truth."

I can say that to myself...and make myself responsible for following through.

that's what works for me

Reasearch the suggestions listed in this thread. Secular connections area has a wealth of info.
probably

I'm a nontheist, but religious things don't necessarily make me bristle. I was at a funeral last week of a man I have known and loved since I was a little girl. He was very religious. When we sang "How great thou Art" I belted it out at the top of my lungs. It was a favorite hymn of his. I sang because it felt good. No more, no less.

People have often given me religious trinkets or said "you are in my prayers" during difficult times. I never take offense. I do not believe in God, but I do believe in the power of human kindness...one hand to another. I even display a few of these trinkets in my home. People think that's funny since I'm not a believer, but it's the intention in which it was given that means something to me, not the "thing", if that makes sense.

I think that rituals like the Lord's Prayer bring people a lot of comfort. Things like that are also intended to reinforce a sense of community. Yeah, it's misguided in a way and does leave out nonchristians and nontheists, but the intent at meetings is to feel a sort of connectedness.

But, in the end...you have to decide how to deal with it...if at all.

ps you can quit drinking.

i am glad to read you feel you cant do this without the program. that is good.
there are many poeple in AA who have done the same thing. one common problem was their perception of a higher power.

Yes, we of agnostic temperament have had these thoughts and experiences. Let us make haste to reassure you. We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God.
Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps. We found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men.

i am sure you can find a sposnor who has experience the same thing. bring up your concern as a topic at a meeting and listen. you just may find a sponsor to help.

We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable

If the shoe doesn't fit then don't wear it, I've been sober for five months without a program. In the beginning I told myself that I was just making excuses and if I didn't use a program I would fail. Not only have I stayed sober, but I've doubled my longest stretch of sobriety.

What's so special about a program? It's not medicine, it's not some magical cure, it's just a set of ideas and morals that didn't originate in your own head. A lot of us drank for so long that we felt broken and couldn't find the solution within ourselves, a program or group can provide a different vantage point or fresh perspective on the problem, but it's not mandatory.

I cringe at faith based solutions to any physical problem, and my reason is not because I don't believe in God, but because I do believe in God. I already have a God Of My Understanding, thanks. He is not consistent with 12 step requirements for the HP job description and doesn't play well with others.

In the end, I have choice over my actions according to my beliefs, free will it's called. I can choose to drink, and I can choose not to drink, meaning it's OK if I don't. So that's what I do. I don't drink.

Disappointing that AA was still referred to here as 'The Program'. There are others, gosh darnit!!1!!! Most of alternative methods go to significant effort to say they are not faith based or 12 step programs, and there are some very good reasons for that.

Eunectes, please junk the notion that you have no alternative. You do. 75% of people dependent on alcohol quit without AA, and without any other program for that matter.

In the end, you just need to cut it out. Are you ready to make your plan for continuing to use alcohol?

Yes. It's not just atheists/agnostic that have a problem with the 12 model, but also many Christians. My Christian friends tell me there is no room for any other interpretation of God in their understanding of their faith. The idea that you can choose your own HP is extremely disconcerting for many Christians, and maybe other faiths as well. Interesting...

The serenity prayer or any other prayer seem useless to me because it doesn't seem like there's a big man in the sky listening or a Santa Claus or a Tooth Fairy, but the sentiments expressed are good sense.

It was Captain Kirk who said, "there are a million things in this life that you can have and a million things that you can't."

So getting your knickers in a twist because life isn't the way you want it is counter productive. Wish I could follow my own advice.

Can you change the fact that the serenity prayer exists?

Can you change the fact that many swear by it, and the notion it promotes?

Can you take steps to improve your own situation ?

Can you tell the difference between all of the things above?

In going through and understanding the above our own emotional state must be confronted and dealt with.

You have work to do! But it,s not where you are that counts, it's who you are and where you are going.

It is within you to succeed