AA or Bust - Really?
 

Am I reading AA wrong in that it seems like some people have hit such a hard bottom that they honestly feel that if they do not go to a meeting every day that they will pick up again? There is a man in my meetings that has been going nearly every night for 22 years or something like that...and sober the entire time. Is it for real in his mind that if he misses a couple of meetings he will drink again?

Then there are some that I have only seen at 1 or 2 meetings in the last month and they don't have that belief, that they have to be there or they just can't do it. Are these people so insecure that they believe that they have to go or lose their sobriety? I don't feel that way, I feel that it is a useful program of support and that I will eventually get through my 12 steps but that life also must go on outside of AA. Most that are there that much and for so long have no family, have no kids, all they have is a job (some not even that) and the meetings. I don't feel that is any kind of a life, maybe I am not with it about that but that is not going to change if all that they do is sit in those rooms, imo. It seems really sad to me. I find it a bit disheartening from time to time in the meetings because I never want to be one of those people who have to be at a meeting 2 or 3 or 7 days per week for fear that I am not strong enough on my own to control myself otherwise.

I completely agree with working on the steps and looking beyond the here and now in order to stop, but every day...seriously?? The last 2 meetings that I went to all I really took in were these people saying over and over again, person after person, "if it weren't for these meetings I'd go back out and drink", and the people saying it are there every day, some 2 and 3 meetings per day.

I need some other opinions on this matter because I have really felt down after the last 2 and I am going to keep going, but why is there such a dependence on it? I know it works, it is helping me already, but I can't imagine having such a low sense of self control that I would have to be there that much. I was trying to do as many in as little time as possible but then a light went on and in that short time I had missed so much of my own life outside of work and meetings.

Are these people not just trading their addiction to alcohol for an addiction to meetings?

A little input would be greatly appreciated.

Donna

but why is there such a dependence on it?

for me, why was there such a dependence on alcohol? I spend a lot less time at meetings in sobriety than I did drunk when I was drinking. I still go to as many meetings as I can (about 5 or 6 a week) but now it's not because I need to, it's cause I want to. It helps me feel better; it gives structure to my day; it allows me to meditate when I wouldn't normally take the time to.

Meetings went from putting in lip service to my friends and family to "me time". I don't know how or when that changed but it just did at some point. I feel better after every meeting I go to, whether I heard what I wanted and/or needed to hear or not. Sometimes a meeting even cured a headache or fatigue I'd been feeling prior to attending the meeting. I don't know why that happens to me; it just does. Maybe if I went to church or something it would have the same effect as an AA meeting.

I dunno. But I don't want to mess with it right now. The program of AA is the only thing that has helped me stop drinking. But that's just me.

I don't go to AA but I will say the concept of going to a meeting every day, or close to it, for the rest of my life was one of the reasons I didn't go to AA. So I look forward to hearing. What proposal have to say.

Donna......:hug:

There are lot's of people in AA....I have no idea why or what
keeps them coming to AA.

Me? I no longer attend meetings daily....usually 3 weekly keep
me connected to AA and appreciating my lifestyle.

With 21 years ....I now find much pleasure in assisting others
interested in following the AA program.......thus I go to AA.

Why would I not? Tat's where they are.
:)

I assure you I have many other interests
my life is full and joy filled.
I'm an AA recovered alcoholic.

There is no rule about how many you go to. I go twice or three times a week.... Because I want to. The fellowship supports my program in so many ways, and sometimes I get to maybe help someone else... Some go everyday because they need to, some because they want to.

Find out what works for you.

:)

Mark

Last time i put the drink down i shifted my focus from doing tons of meetings to doing step work through the book with a sponsor..

Quickly i learnt that the 12 steps IS the program of recovery.......id missed the "elephant in the room".....i presumed the more meetings i did the sober i would get..........trouble was i couldnt string together more than a few weeks with meetings alone.

Some gain huge benefit from doing lots of meetings.......thats great.
but the programme of recovery is the steps...until i engaged in the work, i kept getting drunk.

thats my experience.

To each their own. Some people need more meetings than others. Sometimes people go for other reasons; either out of routine, to help out, or to socialize.

You cannot worry about what works for others, you have to find what works for you. I go 2 times a week because I enjoy being with the group and it is helping me. However if I went 20 times a week I dont think I would get anymore out of it then I do now. Everybody is different, go with what makes sobriety work in your life. Quality over quantity. Slow and steady wins the race.

I guess it's natural to look around and see what other people are doing, and wondering why, and am I doing it right, are they doing it right, especially in the beginning.

What I'm seeing, two years in, is that the meeting/fellowship part of AA isn't what's crucial to recovery. I think it's good to go to a lot of meetings early on, because there's a lot to learn. And it's only by going to a lot of meetings that you start to sort the wheat from the chaff--what's important from what's not as important. People who tend to go to a LOT of meetings (as in, every day or close to it) after several years of sobriety, tend, in my observance, to be either folks who are doing meetings in lieu of the Steps ("can't stay sober unless I go to a meeting every day"), people who have the time and dedication to devote a great deal of time to "carrying the message" to newcomers, or people who just enjoy the fellowship and choose to spend their time with others in AA. The first group I kinda feel sorry for--it must be a burden going to all those meetings just to keep from picking up a drink. For people in the other two groups it's a matter of personal choice.

I nearly always make at least two meetings a week. Sometimes I go to three or four--if I'm having a rough time (meetings almost always pick up my spirits) or just feel like being there. Sometimes I go on a speaking commitment to another group. I feel like it's the right amount for me right now. Eventually you will find the right amount for you. Meantime, don't worry what other people are doing. I think having a home group is important, just so you can do service work. Beyond that, the number of meetings people attend is up to them.

:)
Here is todays reding from the AA book
As Bill Sees It...

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2726114

Perhaps that will clarify for anyone who is interested
why many AA members continue to attend.

Donna- The dependence on AA bothers me too. I left AA the first time because my sponsor wanted me to go to more meetings per week and because people at meetings kept saying AA was the only way to recover (and I don't think any way is the only way).

Now I stay away from meetings where that kind of dependence or rigidity is prominent. It does not help my recovery to listen to it. I'm lucky to have very alternative AA meetings nearby and lots of other recovery programs too. I swear I live in the mecca of recovery programs. (Although I don't agree with much of the 12 steps) To each her/his own!!!

For some folks having sobriety and a job is a great life compared to waking up sick. Finding serenity and not having to worry about legal troubles, job troubles is a great life. Not dealing with judges, courts, ankle scram bracelets, not having probation officers, mandated rehabs... I can think of a great deal worse things than going to a meeting a day.
I don't go to a meeting every day but I did do 6months of meetings daily and then I maintain with 2-3 meetings a week. If I felt like I needed one daily because I enjoyed the format, I met with friends or I wanted to help someone else out that was new to the program I probably would go. Getting sober has some choice, we all get to choose if we get sober, when we get sober and what our program will be. I am not going to judge how someone else finds sobriety. I think 22 years is awesome and he found something that worked for him.

Different strokes for different folks, just because someone walks Path A to get to the goal doesn't mean that it's the only viable path. They may have replaced one addiction with another and if they have its a healthy addiction that doesn't cause harm to themselves or others. There is really no wrong way to get sober, finding what works for you is crucial and maintaining it is key. (Points taken away from some AA older timers, the good kind that don't say 'my way or the highway')

I've got a friend who came into AA same time as me...he still goes to 6 meetings a week, chairs a couple and sponsors a few people...they all go for meals and coffees after and most of the time coffees before meetings...

He has started going to fewer meetings last couple of months...coincidentally around the time of his last amend...why? (cue big gasp from members who haven't worked the steps)

Well he has a new GF, been abroad a few times, got a new hobby...still goes to a few a week but has now started making non-AA friends too.

I was taught AA is a bridge to "normal" living...sure you have, for many reasons, IMO a responsibility to help out the next Donna once you have recovered (finished steps to spiritual awakening) as i have to be there for the next Cliff but unless you have time to go to a meeting a day and the want there are no hard rules as to meeting attendance.

It helps me to bear in mind that life will throw a few curve balls at us along the way and we are very lucky to have meetings available to us...i can almost guarantee that in my life i will at some point be back to 4+ meetings a week not to stay away from a drink but at that time im just going to plain need the support and company of a room full of drunks like me:-)

Working the steps towards a spiritual awakening meant that i started to rely on a power greater than me, call it a higher power or God, that loves you, won't let you down ever and has been waiting for you to just "wake up" to remove the obsession for alcohol from you...keep a close contact with the higher power of your understanding and you never need drink again ever...the rest of the journey is up to you, i.e. you can get as much happiness, peace and serenity as you want with work...the sky's the limit...well actually there is no limit but you get the point;-)

I know a guy with 42 years who goes to a meeting everyday. I asked him while back why do you go everyday are you afraid you'll get drunk agin if you dont? His answer was I could never attend another meeting and be OK I think but someone was here for me when I needed help and thats why I come if I can save one person its worth an hour of my life everyday.

Thx for posting the question Mama. I enjoyed reading this thread....I feel good.

I must admit that I dont go to meetings only because I am a Home Bird and enjoy My Television and Computer too Much. I know people that go and Get a great deal from it..

Maybe if I didnt have this Forum to look into I might still be drinking..Oh dear, the thought of that turns my Stomach!

Kind of a weird analogy, but I kind of wonder the same thing about people who watch TV every day. How can anyone be so dependent on staring passively at a screen for even one hour every day, much less more than an hour? I guess it's all a matter of how you're going to spend your time...an AA meeting is one hour of my day, plus another half hour or so if you add in the time I drive to and from the meeting...not really a huge percentage of my time.

I also think that one of the main reasons why people with long-term sobriety keep going to meetings is that AA suggests that working with and being there for newcomers is an important factor in our own sobriety. It's not so much that our insecurity or lack of willpower keeps us going to meetings, it's that crucial element of reaching out and interacting with others that helps us have not just a sober life but a pretty fulfilling one. I'd rather spend an hour of my day interacting with other recovering/recovered alcoholics that watch an hour of television any day. Just my opinion.

So it is often asked if replacing drinking with attending AA meetings is simply a matter of trading one addiction with another...I would actually say that maybe it is...but is that necessarily bad? I don't think so. Daily attendance at meetings will not kill you or ruin your life, daily drinking (for an alcoholic) might very well.

Alcoholism is a disease that can't be cured, only managed. Going to meetings for an alcoholic is something I consider to be similar to daily insulin injections for a diabetic. If you're a diabetic you could be depressed over the idea of having to take insulin for the rest of your life, or you can - like most diabetics I've known - adapt to the idea that insulin needs to be part of your life from now on in order for you to stay healthy. Not a bad thing...and attending even the worst AA meeting is probably better than having to stick a needle in my arm.

It's not that they have hit such a hard bottom, mama, it's that they never recovered from it.

I do think some in AA live in fear of that next drink. Meetings provide a place to feel better, to get through that next day. Living that way, avoiding a drink one day at a time, is the result of not being recovered. I also think it's a substitute for an outside life for some. Not attractive in my opinion. And completely optional.

AA Big Book gives precise and specific directions for how to get real freedom from alcoholism, not just how to hide from it.

I do absolutely believe that AA becomes a substitute addiction for many...but I also don't think that's such a bad thing. Frankly, since I define addiction as a way to regulate my feelings from the outside, and avoiding being in touch with my insides....depending on outside stuff to make me "feel good," I think nearly everyone in our culture has been conditioned to some sort of dependency. I think AA is one of the healthier ones. Plus....the actual 12 step program served to lead me out of the need to be dependent on people, places and things to feel good, and into finding that spiritual center within me that empowers me to take responsibility for myself without blaming anything else for my thoughts, feelings or behaviors.

I went to daily meetings for my first six months, and in retrospect, I now understand that alcoholism, being essentially a "brain disease," my brain needed reprogramming. I needed to build new neuropathways and allow my prefrontal cortex to resume its healthy development. This take time. Frankly, I think it usually takes anywhere from one to three years to develop those new "sober" neuropathways. And paths are created by repeatedly walking in the same direction, over and over. Meetings were essential for me, both in terms of the support (love) of the fellowship and the guidance in the 12 step process.

I don't consider AA meetings a lifetime sentence, but I can understand the motivation to attend in order to be of service to others. And I myself still attend a few meetings a week, mainly because I like them....I like to be available to the newcomer....and nearly all of my friends are sober. It's just as much a social activity for me as anything else. I mean...what a great thing to know I can go somewhere where "everybody knows my name," besides a barroom. I love the sense of community.

And I've seen too many "meeting makers" who didn't make it....because they thought they could absorb recovery via osmosis by simply sitting in meetings.

As far as I'm concerned, AA is not a no drinking program. It is a design for living program that works better if I don't pick up a drink.

blessings
zenbear

Moderation is important in every part of our lives. (This coming from the one meeting a week person, btw.)
Ok, for instance, I drink tea, I love it. Obviously, since I don't drink alcohol any more Drinking tea is a lot healthier and it's better than drinking booze, so why worry? Well, I'm working on a caffeine addiction, I bought some herbal teas so now I'm taking a look at my caffeine intake and moderating it.

Balance is the key.

I work on recovery every day, and it's just part of my life.

I am not involved in AA, but I definitely have a recovery mindset. It's a good way to live!

each person works their program however they see fit. there isn't a singular formula, nor any benefit from judging or comparing mine to someone elses.

but, regular meeting attendance(as defined by the individual) is absolutely critical. if oldtimers quit going to meetings who would've been there to show the newcomer this new way of life?

Step 12: Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

I'm eternally grateful that people were practicing step 12 when i showed up in the rooms and fully intend on doing the same. What that looks like in terms of number of meetings is up to me and certainly will fluctuate as my my life does.

But we can only keep what we have by giving it away. I firmly believe that.

I think she is using this gentleman at her meeting as an example of a fear that she has that she may have to go to these great lengths the rest of her life to remain sober. I would honestly say that every person is different in their recovery.

personally I get more out of coming on this website than I do out of going to AA meetings since this site is more so people that are serious about making a life change as opposed to beating a criminal charge. I also do not like the focus on God etc at those meetings, and i really hate praying.

Other people thrive on structure- needing meetings and scheduled times to keep their mind and time occupied, so maybe AA is a better choice for them.

At the end of the day the goal is to not only be sober, but be happy sober, regardless of if it takes 1000 meetings a year or 0 meetings your entire life. It appears you are doing well donna, so keep it up.

Mama, the Big Book on page 59 says, "Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:"

The steps are the very core of AA, and yet are only "suggested." There is no mention of how many meetings one should attend, in fact, meetings are not mentioned at all. Whatever works for the individuals you have encountered only reflects their situation - whether they recognize that fact or not. Those that dogmatically insist that you must follow their path are, in my opinion, acting with contempt prior to investigation.

This recovery thing is as unique as we are, and you will need to find what works for you. If you are rigorously honest in examining what underlies/drives your feelings and reactions, you will likely find your path.

Mama - Thanks for starting exactly the thread I would have started. I too have had the exact same thought and questions - here at 6 weeks. I started going to 6 meetings a week and now am going to 1 or 2. My thoughts are that a recovery program typically helps a person stablize physically and then teaches them skills and tools with the goal of self-reliance and independence from whatever treatment or intervention or program they are in. In the meetings I began to feel like people were telling me not to worry, just let us fill you up and we will be here for you always. The people who were most successful where the ones who go frequently and kept coming back for the longest number of years - like 15 or 20! This seemed counter to my idea of what a recovery program should be and I too wondered why people seemed to have just traded an unhealthy addiction for another addiction - although not physically unhealthy. Sure, better the latter - but why does AA seem to foster dependence on the program? And yes, some do use it as an integral part of their lives and see no problem with it. So why should I question them if they are happy? I guess because in finding my own program I am being influenced by these people (and many say to come daily if you can so the influence is substantial). I was told the idea was to let the program influence my life.

This is powerful stuff and I'm not so sure I want to become dependent on meetings and I know, it is entirely up to me what I do with my program. Yet many tell me they were just like me to begin with and just give it a chance I will come around. I am not feeling totally comfortable with that either. And the usual thing is for people to tell you if you don't come or don't do the steps most likely you will drink again. But the only people we are hearing from is the people in those rooms for who this program has worked not the ones on the outside who have also been successful in recovery.

I know it is not fair to be critical of others and to each his own. Do what works for you. For me going to meetings has been helpful esp. at the beginning. But when someone at a meeting talks about needing something else people act like the choices are limited to AA and they say - try a new meeting! I am right now trying to reclaim my life and move ahead with things I left behind like hobbies and meeting new people etc. The only reason I wonder about others at my meetings is because when you join a club you are part of things and the people are the club. So it is natural to wonder and question the motivations of others and why some come in and never leave because that might be me!

But the goal is to remain sober and work on making one's life better - not suffering even if you are sober. And the paths are many. So we can only learn from those who have walked this path before us. As others have said, it is important to recognize there are many ways to be successful and happy in recovery and it is good to question and plan ahead - not just follow passively because others say it will work.

I never went to jail for going to an AA meeting. Just sayin...

SCW- I loved what you said. I also am worried about getting swept away by what others believe in AA. Humans are greatly influenced by other people. We're social animals; we survive by bonding with those around us. Humans are very suggestible which is why marketing and advertising works so well.
You make a great point that we don't hear from people who got what they needed from AA and don't attend meetings.

I get very uncomfortable with many ideas in AA, especially anything that seems like worshipping AA and the BB. Yet- there is a lot about AA that I like and find helpful. I love my 11th step meditation meetings. They feel so comfortable for me.

I think the dependence and rigidity that people have for AA makes it much harder for me to sort out what the right path is for me, because I keep hearing that there is only one way to recover. I get stuck with the idea that I have to work the 12 steps which I don't agree with and probably will skip. That feels blasphemous to say!

I know I am hesitant to voice my concerns out loud in meetings. But I may start doing so in a respectful way, to see if it helps me connect to more like-minded people. I did meet one very cool woman after a meeting and we have very similar beliefs. I wonder if there are more like-minded people in meetings who are also afraid to speak up.

I'm so glad that there have been a few threads lately about the disadvantages of AA. I was feeling very alone with my thoughts!

If you are going to criticize the program, PLEASE don't do it in meetings. The AA program IS the Twelve Steps. You can go there for the support, and skip the Steps--that is your prerogative (though I don't recommend it). But some people quite literally may die unless they work the program as it is set out in the BB. So out of consideration for them, save the doubts and criticisms for discussions outside the meetings.

Believe me, there are plenty of people out there who treat the Steps as optional. For some people they probably are, but for many people they are critical to recovery. A meeting isn't the proper place to debate the program.

I got to know people in the meetings over a few weeks and then discussed my concerns with a couple of them outside of the meetings. In fact just last night I discussed it with someone who is 18 yrs. sober and throughout has gone to meetings. This is a process and I am learning that it takes awhile to work though concerns in order to make a decision how you as a person want to proceed. This can be a confusing time but also a time of great clarity.

I do think that threads like this are helpful because it does give people an opportunity to share concerns and thoughts and hear many different stories and experiences. To me it is very helpful to discuss issues about AA. Some say just not to worry and concentrate on staying sober, however, my mind just doesn't work that way. So once again, everyone approaches this in a different way - the tricky part is finding what will work best for you and knowing what is out there and hearing from others.