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jaitch 01-07-2010 01:00 PM

I hope Daphne gets it, she would be a great top table.

daphne 01-07-2010 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by jaitch (Post 2479730)
I hope Daphne gets it, she would be a great top table.

May regret asking this ........what is meant by "she would be a great top table"

jaitch 01-07-2010 01:16 PM


Originally Posted by daphne (Post 2479747)
May regret asking this ........what is meant by "she would be a great top table"

A top table would be where you are telling your story of how you recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body, or before you got to a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. Remember you can go to an aa meeting purely on the basis of research.

intention 01-07-2010 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by daphne (Post 2479619)
Anybody have any practical tips on cutting down or giving up without going down the AA route?

Hi Daphne

I could probably list at least 100 different ways to cut down on drinking as I was an expert at it!! I always had a different plan each week but unfortunately they all failed.

That said, when I gave up drinking this last week at the age of 41 I was drinking less and less frequently than I did when I was 19. Many times I justified my drinking "well at least I am not as bad as the old days" when I used to drink 6 or 7 pints of 5% lager in the pub, 7 nights a week, every week (I'm female).

But in those days it didn't bother me. I was young, having a laugh, hangovers were easy then. It doesn't matter how much less I have been drinking in the latter years - it matters how it has affected my health physically and how much it bothered me mentally. By that point it was quite literally killing me.

It's great that you have curbed your intake this week and long may it continue but I think if you are honest with yourself, you know in your heart at some point whether it be next week or next month, your intake will rise again because you don't have control over it. Anyone who had control wouldn't need to ask for tips on how to cut back, would they? Take care.

daphne 01-07-2010 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by intention (Post 2479795)
Hi Daphne

I could probably list at least 100 different ways to cut down on drinking as I was an expert at it!! I always had a different plan each week but unfortunately they all failed.

That said, when I gave up drinking this last week at the age of 41 I was drinking less and less frequently than I did when I was 19. Many times I justified my drinking "well at least I am not as bad as the old days" when I used to drink 6 or 7 pints of 5% lager in the pub, 7 nights a week, every week (I'm female).

But in those days it didn't bother me. I was young, having a laugh, hangovers were easy then. It doesn't matter how much less I have been drinking in the latter years - it matters how it has affected my health physically and how much it bothered me mentally. By that point it was quite literally killing me.

It's great that you have curbed your intake this week and long may it continue but I think if you are honest with yourself, you know in your heart at some point whether it be next week or next month, your intake will rise again because you don't have control over it. Anyone who had control wouldn't need to ask for tips on how to cut back, would they? Take care.

thanks for you post
It all seems to be gettin very black and white.
I think people can have levels of control
It is not all or nothing. Something can a high or low degree of control over things in their lives and this fluctuates
The message I seem to be getting now is that alcohol has almost supernatural powers to control you and make you drink it !
Would you say to a smoker who cuts down to a couple a day that its a waste of time unless they give up completely?

If you can modify your environment , change your routines and remove triggers could a gradual reduction not help lead to total abstainence?
Or identifying the causes and reasons for drinking (e.g stress)and addressing them would help you stop. Identify cause to deal with effect. It seems cart before horse otherwise ??

daphne 01-07-2010 02:20 PM


Originally Posted by jaitch (Post 2479756)
A top table would be where you are telling your story of how you recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body, or before you got to a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. Remember you can go to an aa meeting purely on the basis of research.

"seemingly hopeless state of mind and body " !!! aye I have dated a few of them in the past LOL
Never fear jaitch I will not let the evil liquor take over
How long u been sober ?

intention 01-07-2010 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by daphne (Post 2479822)
Would you say to a smoker who cuts down to a couple a day that its a waste of time unless they give up completely?

If you can modify your environment , change your routines and remove triggers could a gradual reduction not help lead to total abstainence?
Or identifying the causes and reasons for drinking (e.g stress)and addressing them would help you stop. Identify cause to deal with effect. It seems cart before horse otherwise ??

Hi Daphne, I would be happy for anyone who could modify their drinking down to safe recommended intake levels.

But we are discussing what to do if one can't cut down.

I found that I drink when I am happy, sad, alone, in company etc. I came to the conclusion that I just drink ! so no amount of looking for causes and reasons helped me to stop.

That said, AA is about alcohol being a disease of the body and the mind so we will still look at emotional issues for our drinking, once we have removed the physical reason by abstaining completely (the body can't crave when it is of the system).

'Resentment is our "number one" offender'. I never knew what a resentment was before I started working the 12 step programme. Then I realised resentments constantly played in my mind without me ever being aware of it.


Quotes from the BB first edition.

jaitch 01-07-2010 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by daphne (Post 2479829)
"seemingly hopeless state of mind and body " !!! aye I have dated a few of them in the past LOL
Never fear jaitch I will not let the evil liquor take over
How long u been sober ?

Ive not had any alcohol for 13 years , no pills or powders for 7 years, I only have to quit smoking nicotine and hash to be totaly free, that is why I came here. Smoking is about to be consigned to the bin of no useness.

Primarily I am an alcoholic. I qualify for other 12 step programmes too. If you ever did get to AA, not that im saying you should of course, you will here beautiful one liners like,

Social Drinkers dont have to control it

I sincerely wish you well Daphne. I really do.

daphne 01-07-2010 02:48 PM


Originally Posted by intention (Post 2479846)
Hi Daphne, I would be happy for anyone who could modify their drinking down to safe recommended intake levels.

But we are discussing what to do if one can't cut down.

I found that I drink when I am happy, sad, alone, in company etc. I came to the conclusion that I just drink ! so no amount of looking for causes and reasons helped me to stop.

That said, AA is about alcohol being a disease of the body and the mind so we will still look at emotional issues for our drinking, once we have removed the physical reason by abstaining completely (the body can't crave when it is of the system).

'Resentment is our "number one" offender'. I never knew what a resentment was before I started working the 12 step programme. Then I realised resentments constantly played in my mind without me ever being aware of it.


Quotes from the BB first edition.

Curious explain the "resentment" thing to me please

daphne 01-07-2010 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by jaitch (Post 2479847)
Ive not had any alcohol for 13 years , no pills or powders for 7 years, I only have to quit smoking nicotine and hash to be totaly free, that is why I came here. Smoking is about to be consigned to the bin of no useness.

Primarily I am an alcoholic. I qualify for other 12 step programmes too. If you ever did get to AA, not that im saying you should of course, you will here beautiful one liners like,

Social Drinkers dont have to control it

I sincerely wish you well Daphne. I really do.

Congratulations on staying off substances for such a long time (esp in our dear country!) Thanks for the good wishes too
d xx

jaitch 01-07-2010 02:57 PM

Brilliant daphne, you have asked a question about Resentment, I look forward to reading answers to that.

intention 01-07-2010 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by daphne (Post 2479848)
Curious explain the "resentment" thing to me please

It's step 4 of the programme and detailed fully in the chapter "How it works"

I am not sure it is something I want to go into here out of context because I have always said to anyone who asks not to think or worry about step 4 when you are at step 1 or before. The steps are in an order for a reason. I think the Big Book can be found easily online.

I found step 4 an amazing revelation into what was going on in my head.


All BB quotes from the first edition of the BB

daphne 01-07-2010 03:25 PM


Originally Posted by intention (Post 2479864)
It's step 4 of the programme and detailed fully in the chapter "How it works"

I am not sure it is something I want to go into here out of context because I have always said to anyone who asks not to think or worry about step 4 when you are at step 1 or before. The steps are in an order for a reason. I think the Big Book can be found easily online.

I found step 4 an amazing revelation into what was going on in my head.


All BB quotes from the first edition of the BB

Hi there
sorry why use this in a post to me if you cannot explain it?
Step 4 sounded to me like some kind of confessional cleansing process? making lists of those you resent, things you have done ? who sees this list ? do you share it at a meeting or with a sponsor ??
I have reread the summary of the 12 steps and as said before cannot accomodate the religious aspects. My partner is a catholic and said it remined him of his religion - , sacrifcial , supernatural powers, confessional, contrition, ephinany and evangelical elements are clearly there.
I also read about some of the AA meeting formats , sounded almost like the masons to me very ritualistic.
It doesn't suprsie me AA was started at post prohibition by middle class, conservative middle america by christian men.
TBH the more I am reading the more it is creeping me out

WakeUp 01-07-2010 03:42 PM


Originally Posted by daphne (Post 2479880)
I also read about some of the AA meeting formats , sounded almost like the masons to me very ritualistic.

Ritualistic? It's just reading from pieces of paper.

daphne 01-07-2010 03:45 PM


Originally Posted by WakeUp (Post 2479897)
Ritualistic? It's just reading from pieces of paper.

Maybe I misinterpreted what I read. Seemed to follow set order. Have you read anything about the founders ? fascinating stuff

AustinJim 01-07-2010 03:50 PM

There are countless different flaws in the AA program pointed out by people who demonstrate very little understanding of it. If you actually want to understand it rather than find reasons to dismiss it, then read the big book. In reality, the 12 step program as it is outline in the text Alcoholics Anonymous, is simple, practical, and inclusive.

Most importantly, it works.

Like many people, I didn't want to do AA. However, nothing else worked for me, and AA did and still does. I thought life would be miserable without alcohol and drugs too. In fact, my life today is so great and satisfying that I wouldn't trade it for anything. I have found genuine meaning and purpose, as well as satisfaction and contentment through the 12 step program.

If you're willing to do anything to stop drinking, which may very well save your life, then you will work the 12 steps and they will work for you. In spite of all the reasons you can come up with why they won't work, they will.

It's your life though. Do whatever you want.

jaitch 01-07-2010 03:52 PM

The disciplines of st ignatiuos is probably what your partner sees in AA, no harm in a bit of inner house cleaning. There are lots of things said about AA and AA meetings that arent true.Of course people see religion in it, it says God with a capital G so it must be religion, can you seperate God from religion. AA seperated God from religion for me, I was stuck with my Proddy grannys God, he was a scary God. You are definitely looking for something Daphne it is shouting out of every post you make. I think you may find what your looking for in AA, I could be wrong of course, have a look at the Book Alcoholics Anonymous without prejudice.

Still wishing you well.

ANEWAUGUST 01-07-2010 03:53 PM

Wow..what a thread!

Hmm..the doctor suggested you abstain from drinking.

You did it for six weeks, and made a decision to go back to drinking.

You said you crave a drink....but, aren't addicted or believe the disease concept.

But, you have cut down, and haven't been drinking as much since posting here.

Everyone has shared their thoughts, ideas, experience, strength and hope.

The question remains though, are you going to follow doctors orders?

Your choice.

Anna 01-07-2010 03:54 PM

Hi Daphne,

I'm glad you're here and asking questions.

Yes, it is definitely possible to recover without using AA.

There are many of us on these boards who are doing that, and I am one. I have been sober for about 9 1/2 years now. I have made many changes in my life, mostly from the inside out and I have found a spiritual (not religious) connection.

As far as cutting back and eventually stopping, it might work for you. But, I tried so hard to do that for about a year, with great determination, and it didn't stick.

jaitch 01-07-2010 03:56 PM


Originally Posted by daphne (Post 2479901)
Maybe I misinterpreted what I read. Seemed to follow set order. Have you read anything about the founders ? fascinating stuff

Yes , you will read many fascinating things about AA founders, my favourite is that Bill W, he founder if you like. said he was the reincarnation of Jesus. He wouldnt be the first person to think that and if I had passed on a message that quickly spread round the world and was getting results I might think i was Jesus,

Read The Book Daphne.


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