.I posted a pic called 'Leno' here that looked like your avatar Octo.

I removed because it looked like I was insulting you! It had 'blah' blah' coming out of his head, lol. I hadnt noticed it was animated until I posted it! So I hadnt seen that part. :)

Whenever anyone, anywhere reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there--and, for that I am responsible.

I'm responsible to help those who want help...the dimwits who wrote this dangerous book obviously don't want my help or any part of AA. Protest all they might, I personally think they're dissatisfied alcoholics who are still looking for a way to drink "responsibly"...misery loves company, and they're determined to convince others to take this road to active alcoholism with them.

When I referred to "taking care", I certainly didn't mean "enabling", which would, of course, be a disservice...and not helpful to him/her or myself. I think I know the difference.

The last line of your post sounds as if you took offense to my post. If that is so, I apologize. Your earlier post said "take care". This post says "help" These are 2 entirely different concepts so I don't think I was out of line in my misunderstanding. I was simply stating my opinion, not trying to de-value anyone elses. I am certainly not suggesting that you don't know the difference between helping and enabling. I still prefer to help one to be better able to take care of oneself as opposed to taking care.

Perhaps the folks who wrote this book are enjoying great success in this approach - Of course, it is my belief that IF that is the case, they were never alcoholic at all...but maybe they truly believe that they are. Maybe they believe they found something that works for them and are trying to share that with others just as those who find success in whatever program of recovery he/she has chosen does the same. Maybe I just prefer to look for the best in people but if we are going to make assumptions about people and their intentions, why not focus on positive rather than negative....

I would wait a few years to see how they turn out (remember the founder of Moderation Management?). Anyway, have you seen a picture of those two? They don't look too like they should be drimking.

The reason I've been upset, Jersey, is because I can imagine my own reaction to that book a few months ago. Until recently, I would have gladly "drunk the kool-aid" and gone with ANY idea that might have enabled me to continue drinking. Damage will be done here, and even though we should be able to think for ourselves, we are so vulnerable while we're trying to find our way to sobriety. There was a man in California years ago who wrote a book about being able to moderate - in the book there was a chart where you could keep track of what you drank. It made such perfect sense!I started out with great resolve. It only took about a month for me to totally tank once again. I know moderation is not possible for me. I just feel for those who will embrace this idea and end up being hurt by these irresponsible people.

A large number of psychological disorders are chemical imbalances...they are in fact diseases...recognized by the medical community...our condition of addiction is precipitated by a chemical change in our brain. I must agree however that we have psychological barriers that must be addressed as well...some consider them our character defects or contributing to them...

A social drinker doesnt care whether they drink or not. My wife is a normal drinker and it is of no consequence if she doesnt have a drink. she enjoys a glass of wine sometimes and occasionally may have one too many. But she can can also go weeks or even months without alcohol without giving it a second throught. It is just not an issue to her and if she was told she could never drink again it would be about as upsetting to her as it would for me and you being told we could never drink apple juice again. No big deal.

Therefore, to drink like a social drinker as these people suggest should mean never thinking about it and abstaining with ease for indeterminate peiods of time. Clearly they have failed on both fronts here. the fact that they are even taking time to label themselves as normal drinkers in my opinion points to an abnormal relationship with alcohol. I think what they are doing is drinking LIKE a social drinker which is wholly different to BEING one. I dont feel the need to write a book explaining how I am able to drink coffee like a normal person. I just can and until now I have never really thought about it.

I believe it is possible for an alcoholic to create an illusion of controlled drinking even for quite long periods of time. but it takes a huge amount of efffort and anyone who has tried knows that drinking totally dominates your throughts and eventually it all falls apart. The closest thing an alcoholic can ever be to a normal social drinker is never drinking at all because thats the way most normal drinkers are most of the time anyway!

Pink and Stone have already said what I would say.

Hevyn - I know what you mean. When I was still sick, I would have used that book to drink longer. I would have reached a lower bottom or maybe not have made it.

I will pray for them because I can feel resentment towards them. They are sick and need help. And I will pray for anyone who reads it who is truely alcoholic.

Well said, Octoman. My wife is also a social drinker, as are my sisters and parents and it is just as you describe.

Great post Octoman! My husband is the same way, he could care less!

Well, that is not entirely true, actually he despises alcohol now. I don't think you could pay him to drink. He has seen the horrors...not just the depth that alcohol brought me too, but he works in a place where he sees the devestation daily.

Now Oreos for him.....lol

I know I can't drink full stop and I don't want to either, that article is a killer it will undo so many peoples thinking.JMO

I never had a problem with alcohol, as I did with food, drugs, relationships.I was definately stuffing my feelings and numbing my pain with these things.You can't stop eating, but you have to learn how to control it, or you will get unhealthy.Relationships fall in the same, you have to set boundaries, or you will be involved in messy relationships.
The way I dealt with the pain and lonliness was wrong, I had to learn to let go of resentment and learn self respect.I don't agree with the authors, but I have reservations about this issue.If I never had a problem with drinking, why should I avoid it forever? I still eat and have relationships, and those things were definately problem areas.I know some will say, there is always a chance to develop a problem, but there is with anything I have abused already.It is confusing.I just stay sober because it is a step in my recovery.Will I drink again? Don't know for sure.I know I don't want to ever take drugs again,and I don't want to be obese again, but recovery is about the reasons you abused certain things, and those are what I am working on, soberly.Better to be clear headed.

Slash...I prefer to believe our intentions are the same, we're just wording it differently.

Quote:

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I just feel for those who will embrace this idea and end up being hurt by these irresponsible people.

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Hevyn...I totally agree...but, I must accept the things I cannot change. If I thought it would have any effect to start a "ban the book" campaign, count me in!!! In the meantime, giving more thought to the authors of this book is just allowing them to "live rent free" in my head.

The publication alone of this book has already done damage...imagine all the passionate recovering alcoholics, like yourself, who are being adversely affected by the "social drinkers" concept being fostered by so-called alcoholics. I shudder to think of how many hapless souls will be led to near or total destruction, if they adopt the premise being put forth by these opportunists...are they really intent on improving the lives of fellow alcoholics, or just out to make a few dollars at their expense!?!

Ms. Nonny...I believe they are :)

Psychologist's View - Depending on Knowledge of AA/Alcoholics
 

Early in 1979, my daughter suggested I see a psychologist for my depression. I was separated from husband and still drinking, although he had stopped. The doc and I discussed everything under the son...but, never a word about his or my drinking. By the end of each session, I would be so emotionally drained, I would head straight to my favorite bar for a few "pick me ups"!

A few months later, I wound up in detox, and didn't make my scheduled session with the doc. I called her and said something to the effect, "I found out my problem...I'm an alcoholic, and I'm being detoxed for alcoholism." I don't think she was convinced, but that was her problem.

Two years later, having been divorced and going to AA, I became so depressed, I couldn't get out of bed to go to work...didn't feel like doing anything...not even drinking! I dragged myself back to the detox/rehab and begged for help. After a joint meeting of three of the counsellors, I was prescribed an anti-depressant and set up for lunch-time meetings with an alcoholism therapist whose Dad was an alcoholic and she was in Al-Anon. This gal could have written her own Big Book.

BTW...it was determined, during the next six months of therapy, that the depression was caused by my not having "grieved the divorce". I did a lot of in-depth soul searching, pretty much like a 4th and 5th...and came out the other side a much more serene recovering alcoholic.

Reading everyone's responses makes me so proud to be part of this community. You are an intelligent (brilliant at times), humerous, wonderfully helpful & kind group and I am so thankful to part of what we have here. How empty I would feel if I didn't have SR in my life.

:amen:

D

I know I, personally, can never be a Social Drinker.
I think it's somewhat dangerous of them to tell people that "Sure! You Can Drink Socially, just get to the bottom of your issues and the 'addiction' goes away!"

I can't drink socially and I cannot drink responsibly. After two months sober I drank one day because..well no, I used being stressed out about something as a reason to drink. All it took was the first night, then I was on a bender, and I've been struggling mightily ever since then. Two, three, seven days sober, then bam, a night of drinking. And it's made me miserable.

The same thing would happen if I ever tried to drink socially. And, frankly, two or three drinks would just tick me off. I also notice the attacking of AA.
One thing in AA is that I haven't heard many people in AA attack other treatment paths, instead saying "whatever works for you, do it."

I am interested in this woman who started some other path of rehab that said you COULD drink, and she ended up killing someone in a DD accident?
Does anyone have any links about this or know the woman's name?

I haven't read all the posts as my head hurts to much this morning but like the poster above, I had 2 or so months sober and decided to try moderation, social drinking whatever you want to call it. It didn't work for me, once I drank that first night that was it, the cravings and the mental arguments were back in full force. Abstinence is the only way forward for me, I don't believe I would ever be in a place where I can "socially drink." One drink lead me back right where I was in a matter of a week.

I had lost the ability to be social by the end of my drinking career. So social drinking did not exist for me. :a043:

I have found that today I can be a social drinker but that is drinking ONLY NO alcohol drinks. And the bonus is, I don't have to worry about what I said or did the night before, no hangover, no blackouts, tend not to do or say really stupid things (although I have my moments,,,lol). :ghug2