:c011: Next step would be hiring a lawyer for me.

I have a detective type approach to this. I'm searching for all possible explanations and motives so I can make the best possible decision moving forward. If it's just my wife behaving badly, I can accept that. If it has been brought on by bipolar disorder, I want to be certain because that fundamentally changes the way I have to approach this situation. I'm going to look under ever rock and I know the answers I am looking for will probably never be found but I'm going to look anyways. I'll find stuff that stings and hurts me but knowledge is useful even if it's only for closure.

I had better things to do with my life than play detective with my cheating exAwf. She also tried to play the 'sickness' card,but the behavior continued, so my marrage did not. She's now been married 7 times total. Has custody of non of her children and could not care. Selfishness is what it was/is.

I feel like it confirms that she is manic

Or, it could confirm that maybe she's not who you thought she was.
I was with the same person for 20 years. Married for 15 of those. There was never infidelity, fighting, abuse anything like that. But in the end I realized that she just was not at all who I thought she was. It was a horribly painful realization, but it was also a truth I needed to accept.
There's a saying that goes "When someone shows you who they really are, believe them".
We like to make excuses for people. Love always hopes for the best. So it's only natural that we do. But that doesn't excuse the actions. There are addicts and alcoholics in the world who just don't cheat on their spouses. There are people with bipolar disorder who don't cheat and post nude pics.
As much as I loved my ex, I finally got to the point where I decided I wanted more than she could offer. I changed. She didn't. The hard truth of the matter is that sometimes love just isn't enough.
Take your time and be good to yourself. More will be revealed.

It sounds to me like you're doing what you need to do as far as what I'd think are checklist items.

Let me ask you this.

Are you also taking time for yourself to do things that aren't necessarily connected to her, to family, recovery, work....you know, like taking in a ballgame or concert or something along those lines now and then?

Decompression is also a good thing.

By the sounds of it, though, you're either making or working toward making the healthy decisions that you need to make for you. Just a lot of things on your mind. 100% natural. Believe me. I get it.

-Eric

I play music. It's how I decompress.

Yeah, this. Absolutely this.

My loved one, and this is where I'm struggling right now (I will be making a more thorough post in the next couple of days over in the "Friends and Family of Substance Abusers" area) has a tremendous tendency to lie. I've always seen great POTENTIAL in her, which has caused a bias. Any positive step, whether I witnessed it or she's reported it, chalked it up toward "heading toward potential." Negative steps? "A step back."

But just....the lying. And the compartmentalization. No two cases are the same, but I came to this realization months ago that she was not who she claimed to be and I started seeing the real person behind the facade. She keeps it up well. But I stopped seeing a capable woman on the cusp of middle age who "just needed some love and support" and started seeing this scared, immature, teenage-like girl who wanted to hang out and have this more primitive-feeling friendship that consisted of listening to music and talking about ********.

As one might suspect, this led to us distancing some and her making new friends who were on a similar level who were all, surprise surprise, either criminals, drug addicts, or some mixture of the two. I blamed mental health, I blamed some temporary mid-life crisis thing that "must be going on in her head," I blamed members of her family for enabling her (without, at the time, acknowledging that I was part of the problem, too.....now we all talk and we all own our crap.....) and they blamed me (the biggest eye-opener was when her sister straight-up told me "I think you're taking her to get meth." And I wasn't....at least not knowingly....but as she explained it I said "oh ****....what if her friend she was visiting was giving it to her when I wasn't loking or was out of the room?" That's the point where I started to realize there were some suspicions both ways, and that's when we all started getting a little more communicative.)

Today I only recognize a shell of the woman I thought I knew. My thought process is no longer "what is our future?" Now it's "is now the time to let go?" And even when you don't recognize them, you still love them...or at least the idea you had of who you thought they were. You mourn for it. You wish for it back. But eventually you have to decide.....do I love what's left when I take off my glasses and strip them down to their core and see them for who they are? Do I still love them when I'm trying to do me and see how they react?

I guess my point to OP...and I thank BlownOne for making this point....is not that what any of what he is doing right now is wrong. I think he's doing some great things. He's clearly trying to find the answers that work for him. But make sure your eyes are open in doing it. Make sure, if she's coming back, that you're "getting what you paid for" so to speak. And if you're not, you have to know your line as far as what is and is not acceptable, and what you will and won't take back if she makes that decision.

-Eric

Hi BRM05.

The kids are lucky to have a stable parent caring for them. Happy to hear you have the visitation locked down and are working with the teachers also. I feel so sad for the pain they must feel with their mom leaving. As a mother, wow hard to wrap my mind around her being so flippant in her attitude about the kids. Ive seen many posts here where people fight for sobriety because they want to be in their kids lives, and want to be good role models.

I began reading your thread just today. Ok if I ask a couple questions to better help me understand?

How long has your wife had a drinking problem? Did you know her when she wasn't abusing alcohol at least periodically? Were there signs of bipolar with manic episodes when she was at home, before the rehab?

Granted it sounds like she has had a rough life with damage done to her in childhood and beyond. Studies show alcohol abuse/addiction is often linked with a person having experienced early trauma. So all of this makes sense to me.

I also get what you are thinking in regards to having a feeling like 'will she snap out of this'. I felt this way when my husband was struggling.

So she went to a 30 day 12 step rehab. Was diagnosed with bipolar and put on meds. Is her own family Dr now monitoring this or is she still with the rehab Dr? Apart from attending AA, what is she doing for her own recovery? Does she see a therapist? In my opinion this is a critical component to recovery, especially with underlying issues like trauma, and bipolar.

I saw the letter you wrote while she was in rehab. Did the rehab begin any type of family therapy sessions with the both of you? Or advise that you would need this in the future? Not that she seems interested in this currently !

My husband cheated on me when he was in active addiction. I didn't know about it until later. It was VERY painful truth to face, but together we worked through it. I know he wasn't in his right mind when it happened, but I could not have continued a relationship with him IF he hadn't accepted responsibility, expressed regret and remorse and truly showed that he wanted a future with me.

Feelings on this type of thing are all personal, but I don't think I could be as forgiving and generous of spirit as you seem to be. If he kept seeing the woman he was cheating with, then I would have ended things, or at least filed for separation, began preparing emotionally and financially for divorce. Regardless of the reason why? It takes two to be in a relationship.

It just seems to me that your wife's situation isn't going to improve unless she is willing to make major life changes and seek proper treatment for all her issues.

Have you also checked out some of the mental health forums? I know there are some sites that offer bipolar, and support for families dealing with mental health issues. Their experiences might help you also?

Abstinence from alcohol and or early untreated bi-polar not sure what fundamental changes that would be for you or how the outcome differs. The approach for protection of your children and yourself still would look the same wouldn’t it? Mental health issues are still issues whether it’s from alcoholism or bi-polar, right? Both still affect you and the children and neither one is an excuse for unacceptable behaviors.

She wants out of the marriage, she doesn’t want to be a mommy or wife. She wants to chase the new high which is another man and a different kind of life.
All the detective work in the world isn’t going to change those facts. Unacceptable behavior is always unacceptable, no?

Her decisions, her choices, her behaviors have nothing at all to do with you as a person or a husband or a dad. You and your children sadly are casualties of alcoholism and mental health issues. Both of which are life long .

I agree with Eric & atalose. I do understand the urge/need to play detective until you wear out your monkey mind a bit...... I think we all go through a period of this, especially when something is so shocking and/or traumatizing.


After reading this entire thread my thoughts are:

I think the biggest thing to wrap your mind around is that even if she is fully manic & this is "explainable" (or however that qualifies in your mind) that doesn't change any of your control over the situation or provide you any timeline of change, or present a more specialized recovery for her. She still has to WANT to change.

It doesn't change anything, not really. Is it really that it makes it more palatable for you to accept & you are needing that in order to move forward? Somewhere to place the blame?

Stop rushing - this is your LIFE not a RACE. There is no timeline for the "right answer".

Stop analyzing & just OBSERVE, if you can. 45 days is the whisper of a drop in the bucket of recovery for BOTH of you- more will be revealed, I will guarantee it.

It's possible she's being very honest & you're just not listening - she wants out, she doesn't want to be a mother or wife, for whatever reasons. Even without bipolar or midlife issues, people go through these sudden changes all the time.

The most important thing to focus on is the kids - which you seem very aware of already, but remember that means they need YOU to be whole, as much as you possibly can for them. Fracturing yourself to chase down answers on her side of the street hurts them. Every single one of us worries about how we'll manage single parenting - EVERYONE. But this:

is their REALITY. It warped my mind to realize I needed to protect my daughter from her own father, but I did. Spending my time proving I was right often led me to feeling self-righteous & did her no good. She didn't care about the reasons at such a young age - she cared about having at least one honest, safe, dependable parent & at age 5, she told me so.

"I love dad, but I think he makes bad choices sometimes."

Yeah my son told me something similar. He said "If I have to live with you or mom I want to live with you. Mom makes excuses and you don't."

I will say this. I spent YEARS looking for the why. Then realized it does not really matter. The present behavior and possible future outcomes is all that matters regardless of WHY.

How many of you here had your A come back and things work out?

Well, hmmmm.

She tried that with her ex-husband and it didn't work out.

She collapsed on me, served a prison sentence, came back....and, well, here I am.

I'm not saying it's impossible. And I sincerely hope there's positive outcomes in these situations for some people.

But.....

1.) You have to be healthy yourself

and

2.) She has to GET healthy (because she's not right now)

AND

3.) You both have to decide that you love each other enough to make it work and to overcome the slog of s--- that comes with it.

Believe me. I ask myself this question a lot. But the more time passes, the more I start to believe that it's wishful thinking.

That's why I'm taking care of myself. Because 2 and 3 won't matter if I don't accomplish 1, and I won't matter if I don't accomplish 1. I have a long way to go, though......

-Eric

I am not being a smarty pants here, but how educated are you on life with someone who is Bipolar?? It's quite typical for addiction to be co/occurring on a regular basis with someone who is truly bipolar. And as with any Pesonality Disorder, they have to truly recognize the issue and be willing to address it, daily, for the rest of their lives. It's a tall order.

I send best wishes to you and your children. They are lucky to have you in their corner!

I'm pretty educated I'd say. I've gone so far as to read up on the medication she is taking. A few months before she got really bad she started taking lexapro for her depression. They told her not to drink on it and she did. She started staying up all night watching YouTube videos and drinking. She quit a salary job via text and just never went back to work. Then she lost a job from being too drunk to wake up on time to get to work. I looked at the side effects of lexapro and alcohol and its mania and psychosis. This went on for a few months with small patches of depression in between. She wouldn't shower for sometimes 2 days. I left for work and when I came home she was in the same spot on the couch. House was destroyed. Kids naked or in their underwear. You know the rest of the story. She was manic when I made her leave. She had an affair while she was manic(hypersexuality). Went to rehab while still take lexapro and manic. Once diagnosed bipolar they switched her to 100mg zoloft and 100mg lamictal. She was manic and she still is. Zoloft also causes "emotional blunting". I asked her to read the scientific evidence for this stuff earlier today when I talked to her. She said that was scary and she didn't know about that. She said she would read about. Fingers crossed.

https://www.quora.com/Can-escitalopram-treatment-lead-to-mania-and-psychosis

https://www.quora.com/Can-Sertraline-Zoloft-be-the-cause-of-a-divorce-or-a-break-up-and-if-so-how-does-that-person-see-the-breakup-after-they-stop-taking-antidepressants

Yeah...so am I.

AA in Social and Behavioral Sciences.

BA in Sociology, emphasis in Deviance, Minor in Psychology (UC Irvine Class of 2007)

Fellowship in Community Mental Health (Mental Health America - Los Angeles in Conjunction with the California State University at Dominguez Hills.

MBA from the University of Redlands School of Business.

Pretty decent credentials. And I still can't fix my addict. But top that off with this!

5 years of experience in the mental health field, split between working in a Community Mental Health Full Service Partnership (1 year) and working in Residential Dual Diagnosis Facilities (4 years) the latter of which required me to assist in administering medication to residents and to help them research and understand medications, side effects, etc.

I'm also Bipolar Type II and spent about 10 years in therapy so I know both sides of the couch and know what some of those medications do myself. Spent a lot of time in peer support groups.

Let me tell you, you can have all the education and even professional experience in the world. You can suffer from mental health issues and have gone to therapy yourself. You can share your knowledge and insights and lessons with your addicted loved one. It's still not going to fix your loved one. It may help you understand them on some level. But it won't fix them.

They have to fix themselves.

What you're talking about is a dual diagnosis situation. Where I worry a bit is that you're coming across right now with that idea that "if I just understand enough about what caused these problems, I can explain them." Great! You've explained them. I don't mean that as a personal dig at all. But ask yourself...now that you've explained them....has it made your relationship with your wife any better? Has it brought her any closer to sobriety? Has it improved her relationship with her children? Has it brought her any closer to coming home? Has it rid her of the attachment she formed with her affair partner?

These are serious questions.

I get it. I'm having a hard time of letting go of some things myself right now, chief among them anger. When she talked to me about how she experiences symptoms that essentially sound like Dissociative Identity Disorder, I became an absolute student of the disorder, tried to learn everything, understand everything, urged her to get into DBT or CBT......

The reality is until SHE decides to get better, all your knowledge, all your explanations, all your efforts....are very likely to fall on deaf ears.

And damn. I hope I'm wrong. Because I do believe you love this woman, I do believe your intentions are absolutely good and that you want what's best for yourself, your kids and your wife. But I'm afraid you're going to bang your head against the wall and get occasional small progress, occasional no progress, and occasional steps back.

But I've seen it too many times and now I'm living through it myself. This process you're going through? Somewhat different scenario, but I went down the same rabbit hole looking for answers. I needed to. And maybe you need to. But it might not work. And that's okay. Just please...be honest with yourself. And talk some of this out with a connection (maybe a sponsor?) from AlAnon if you have developed that sort of relationship with anyone.

In NarAnon, there's a man we call "f---in' Richard" and he wears it as a badge of honor because he drops knowledge bits and we just go "damn, f---in' Richard." I've only been going a short time and I already know. But there's two bits he drops.

1.) Addiction is the only disease where the only real cure is more pain. (It's that "hitting bottom" idea. As bad as things are, she might not yet. She might need more pain before she truly sees what she's doing to her family and to herself.)

2.) Trying to "fix" the addict is like pulling 648 levers. You pull all 648 of them, and you find out that all you've accomplished is that you wore out your arms. Or your brain. Or your heart. Whatever the case may be. Ultimately only the addict knows which levers to pull and in which order, and they won't realize they know that answer until they truly seek recovery and work their steps toward health (12 step meetings would call these 12 steps, other forms of meetings would have other definitions.)

I get it. A thousand times. I get it. And you're going to go through your process. Just remember the folks here have all been there, either as friends and family of an addict or as addicts themselves. And in some cases as both! This woman in my NarAnon meeting on Wednesday night referred to those folks as "Double Winners." Go through your process. We're here for you. And while I know this isn't strictly 12 step, there's one thing from that I can close with that I think is appropriate for all forms of support: keep coming back.

-Eric

Yeah. What ebecker said.

I spent years trying to figure out why my sister was acting the way she did. She engaged in an affair with a fortysomething pot addict who was still living at home with his parents. When she got divorced, her children ended up living with my parents during her custody days.

She was sexually abused. I'm sure she's convinced herself that she deserved that too.

We were both physically abused. She said we deserved it because we were brats. She told me I was a liar.

I tried so hard to figure out why she did what she did. I even intellectually get it. But in the end, it didn't explain squat. It didn't make the relationship with my sister any better. In fact, it made me even more resentful because I was the one doing all the work towards my sister's "getting better" when she didn't want anything to do with the process. Why would she want to? She didn't have to worry about her daughters, she was getting the attention she craved from a guy who could adore her 24/7 because he had no job, and she didn't have to face the trauma that my cousin inflicted on her.

So no easy answers, and no I have never been able to detach with love. I still think she could do so much better. I get angry at her because she has given up on herself, and you could give her all the love in the world and it will never ever be enough.

Hey Eric, what a great post, thanks for sharing all of that, well said!