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CelticZebra 02-17-2017 06:55 AM


Originally Posted by atalose (Post 6336009)
I heard this a long time ago and it helped me when my codie thinking and behaviors kicked into over drive.

Alcohol is an alcoholic’s trigger.

Drugs are a drug addic’ts trigger.

And relationships are a codependents trigger.

When I would feel left out or that I didn’t matter or didn't feel needed or important enough to him, I had to remind myself to look inward and figure out what was going on inside of me and where the insecurity was coming from. Al-anon helped me work through so much of that.

^^^^
This

CelticZebra 02-17-2017 07:01 AM


Originally Posted by LynCM (Post 6336107)
You offer a lot of terrific insight; thank you, dandylion. I'd be lying if I said the idea of living apart for a year didn't incite a lot of fear and anger in me (i.e. "this isn't my fault, why should I suffer as a single parent?" "how the hell am I going to manage by myself?")

But as everyone has mentioned, there is something to be said for detachment.

I'm learning I need to find peace in that detachment.. I struggle with wanting to be involved/a part of it, but thanks to everyone's comments, I'm learning that this really is HIS process, and I have mine. I shouldn't interfere or observe in his. I have a lot of hard wiring to undo and fix.

TIME seems to be the biggest issue. Balancing Work, Relationship, Me, Toddler, Exercise, Hobbies.... for so long, "ME" has been at the bottom of the pecking order. I'm starting to think (and you guys can confirm this if true) that relationship, at least for now, is going to have to be at the bottom of the pecking order.

^^^^^
And this

FireSprite 02-17-2017 07:12 AM


Originally Posted by LexieCat (Post 6336220)
BUT IN THE BEGINNING, there is really no such thing as "too much recovery"--certainly there should eventually be balance, but it's way too early to expect that. And if it's been more than a year and he's still not engaged with the family (assuming he remains sober) then the "balance" issue can be addressed.

^^This, right here. Lyn, all bets are off in early recovery. There IS no normal. There IS no such thing as too much recovery work. It is FAR too early for him to be able to identify & strike a balance between however-many-years-of-drinking & 60 of days of Not.

Have you read much on the topic of Reasonable Expectations? So many of us on the codie side come into this process with our expectations mislabeled as "normal things that everybody has/wants/desires/needs".

This is also where we can all be very different on this side of the fence - not every spouse is automatically a codependent person & some may develop some short-term codie behaviors in the face of active addiction only to find it subsides pretty quickly once they are no longer faced with that obstacle. But for SOME of us (raises hand), this is something we've fine-tuned since early childhood & by the time we (*I*) started recovery, I had been calling many of my codie behaviors my strengths - no one was more organized, in control, on top of the schedule! Look no farther for the Most Manipulative Martyr - I won that award many consecutive years. :)

I had to back waaaaaay up & dig very, very deep into the roots of Me & figure out where/when all that cross-wiring started. I had to get really honest with myself about the behaviors too - acknowledging my underlying motivations or jealousies or judgments or whatever.
Figuring out things on my side of things showed me a LOT about myself that blew my mind.

It sounds like you've been going the right way in recovery from what you've read/done, but don't forget YOU'RE in early recovery too.....not just him. The more you take that energy that is going to waste right now, worrying about his balance & his recovery, and put it to work in any direction on something for yourself, it will pay off for all of you. That's the hidden beauty of real recovery - you double-time working on yourself & you end up finding tools that help create positive change in every other area of your life. Every relationship in my life, especially the one I have with My Self, my work life, my parenting have all improved exponentially in this process.


but WHY does it have to be an all or nothing situation?
Because so is addiction. Simple, not easy.

atalose 02-17-2017 07:25 AM

Some of things I’ve come to understand about recovery is………..

The drinking is the symptom of a deeper cause. Your husband will need to work hard on understanding that cause and how to replace his copping with healthier decisions other than to drink.

Rehab is an opportunity for them to rid the body of the toxins of alcohol and to begin to learn about their disease and ways to keep it arrested such as meetings and sponsors.

It’s always suggested that 90 meetings in 90 days is a great start but that’s just it, it’s a start. Recovery is life long there is no destination other than to continue to remain in active recovery or to drink again.

The first year of recovery is the hardest, anything he puts ahead of his recovery right now like family, friends, work, etc. it’s a good chance he’ll eventually lose.

I have been in al-anon for 15 years, each year new members find their way into the rooms, usually years too late and are finding themselves being left by the A’s in their life because the A’s have grown in their recovery while the loved ones remained the same. And it’s always the same line we hear….”after all I did and put up with for years, this is what I get”.

I think if you really make a commitment to yourself to work on you and your issues (many we don’t even know we have) you’ll gain an insight on the slow process of self-realization and self-recovery that your husband is also working on.

CelticZebra 02-17-2017 07:38 AM

Insight and experience
 

Originally Posted by Ladybird579 (Post 6336602)
Alcoholics are selfish and recovering ones are too. I think you have to choose which selfish you prefer. He needs to focus on himself and will do for years to come..... the rest of his life to maintain sobriety. The road to recovery is paved with slip ups and relapses. Even if he never relapses his sobriety comes first. There is no balance. Only you know if you can live with that. Personally I couldn't. I felt like I'd sacrificed enough of my one precious life. My exah is even more self obsessed since he went to rehab. Awful to say but he was nicer drunk but even then it was always about him.

I can really relate to this, here's a bit of my experience from both sides:
My husband stopped drinking 4 years ago. He was diagnosed with PTSD 2 years ago.
I stopped drinking 3 years ago. I have suffered recurring depression and problems with my mental health and addictions for 20 years.
I have teenage daughter.
His teenage daughter and younger sister live with us too.
Our family has lived together full-time for 6 years.

The stress is too big. He is moving to a flat of his own tomorrow.

I used AVRT to stop drinking after years of abuse and continue to use resources such as SR, therapy, studying psychology and other tools to continue my recovery and learn new ways to deal with life.

My husband stopped drinking because it interacted with medication he was taking for his low mood and caused violent outbursts.
The violent outbursts that are out of his control, even with the 'correct' medication and help with psychological therapies still continue. He rages with no end in sight nowadays. The medication doesn't make him feel the way he used to I guess. He thinks he's moving out because I want him to because that's how it FEELS.

In my opinion and that of those who understand the psychology of addiction this is a therapeutic move designed to reduce stress in the only way available. I am moving past feelings into the unknown world of having a husband I love dearly (less than 6 years married) unable to even remember what he says during his outbursts, etc...

Really concentrate hard on yourself, your life, recovery, support for yourself to get through difficult times and learn to turn the co-dependant around to become independent, mature, caring and adult.

Sorry if I've put this in the wrong place, it resonates with me.

Let it be.
Let it go.
Refocus

LynCM 02-17-2017 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 6336876)
^^This, right here. Lyn, all bets are off in early recovery. There IS no normal. There IS no such thing as too much recovery work. It is FAR too early for him to be able to identify & strike a balance between however-many-years-of-drinking & 60 of days of Not.

I feel like this was the answer I've needed to hear/understand, for so long. Over the course of the day since posting this, I've gotten a chance to self-reflect, and even shared with my RAH my struggles in this regard, and I'm starting to find peace in this feeling of 'unfairness' and resentment from "no one prepared me for what to expect." Thank you for the quote above. :Meditate:


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 6336876)
Have you read much on the topic of Reasonable Expectations? So many of us on the codie side come into this process with our expectations mislabeled as "normal things that everybody has/wants/desires/needs."

Thank you for the advice, I think this is extremely applicable and I'll look into it more. I brought my 'Codependent No More" book to work with me to read during lunch and breaks - I think I need some refresher courses on the topic ;)


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 6336876)
But for SOME of us (raises hand), this is something we've fine-tuned since early childhood & by the time we (*I*) started recovery, I had been calling many of my codie behaviors my strengths - no one was more organized, in control, on top of the schedule! Look no farther for the Most Manipulative Martyr - I won that award many consecutive years. :)

^^THIS. SO. MUCH. THIS. To this day, I still pride myself for being so well-organized, being a 'great leader and delegator' (thanks, Air Force *rolls eyes*), responsible, on top of the schedule, etc., not including the years of 'guilt-trips' from my mother. I relate to you 100% on this. I knew how to control, and I did (do?) it well. I don't know if you're ever open to chatting (outside of a thread), but I feel like we have some very similar variables.:c009:

Thank you for all your insights and your sharings; they have already helped me tremendously.


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 6336876)
Because so is addiction. Simple, not easy.

Good point. It's tough to fight the 'justice warrior' within, but you're absolutely right.
:Thinkingo

dandylion 02-17-2017 09:25 AM

When talking on the subject of "unfairness" in a relationship.......I always come back to the word "topsy-turvy"......
As we are growing up, we are taught the principles that we should live by, in our relationships with others. We are taught what we should expect with give and take. We learn it in our family, our schools, churches, and the culture, at large. And, they are, generally, good and solid principles...and work out pretty well, when used.
The sticky wicket is, that, these principles are designed for healthy people in healthy relationships.
There are two situations where rigid adherence to these principles do not work out for the individuals....in the face of addictions or abuse.
These turn the principles that we have l earned, all topsy-turvy.
for example..."Treat a person with trust and they will live up to that trust"...doesn't work with a drug addict.
"What you give, you will receive--as it is better to give than receive"....doesn't work with an alcoholic who wants what he/she wants when they want it.
"all you need is love--because love conquers all"...doesn't work with addiction or abuse...you can't just love it away in another person...
And, a really big one...."a good spouse never "gives up" on their partner".....Letting go of something that is destructive to us is not the same thing as giving up.....

Just saying.....

FireSprite 02-17-2017 09:38 AM

Yes, definitely. I think once you have 10 posts on the forums you'll be allowed to use the private message function - PM me any time.

If you haven't yet found these old threads, you might get a lot out of their content:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ally-mean.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-they-can.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...miserable.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ependency.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...etting-go.html

honeypig 02-18-2017 03:43 AM

LynCM, I just found this article in one of my folders and wanted to post it here for you in case it was helpful:

https://www.hazelden.org/web/public/..._decision.page

It's great to see you posting in so many other threads, jumping into your own recovery just as wholeheartedly as your RAH has jumped into his!

Wishing both of you strength, clarity and joy that grows in the days to come.

LynCM 02-18-2017 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by honeypig (Post 6337640)
LynCM, I just found this article in one of my folders and wanted to post it here for you in case it was helpful:

https://www.hazelden.org/web/public/..._decision.page

HOLY CRAP that was a great read. Thank you for that.


"No. Recovery is a decision, not a negotiation. You don't negotiate with this disease, you either recover from it or you don't."

First, I choose to be sober today, and then I find out, as the day goes on, what the price of that choice will be. I don't negotiate a price in advance.

On good days, the price turns out to be low. It is sunny and pleasant, and everyone I meet seems to agree with me. Sobriety is easy. On bad days, it is 100 degrees and humid, and people seem to annoy me. Sobriety is harder and its price is higher. No matter what, I make the decision for sobriety first, without knowing today's price.
This was a great description of the process and really helps me to understand the day to day struggle that he (or anyone in recovery) is likely going through. That may be part of my own defect, is that I never really made more of an effort to try to walk in his shoes, and this might be the closest I will ever come to understanding the struggle.

I needed to read that. Thank you, HP.

(Side note: anytime I see someone [or myself] type "HP," I immediately think of Harry Potter. Yer a wizard, honeypig!)

http://data.whicdn.com/images/17049685/large.gif

LynCM 02-18-2017 09:54 PM


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 6336984)
If you haven't yet found these old threads, you might get a lot out of their content

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THESE! It's tough to get through some of them because I can relate so much, but it's good to have. I'll be working my way through all these.


LIFE UPDATE: I've been more at peace as he started his long weekend of AA/sponsor/step work, and I'm being very pleasant and supportive as he's leaving for his 12-16 hour day. I fortunately got to go to my own 'home' Al-Anon meeting (granted, it's only my 3rd meeting ever) in the morning before he left (so, he's supportive of my recovery, too... it IS a nice feeling, and I'm hoping I give him that feeling more consistently now), and I've reached out to a few people looking for friends and a potential sponsor. Today's meeting was focused on 'caring for myself,' and I focused my energy not on his absence, but on the fun and quality time I was getting with my 3 y/o DD. It was a good day. :grouphug:

honeypig 02-19-2017 01:35 AM

LynCM, I'm really glad you found that article useful. Thank YOU for the wizard-pig! Maybe that could be my altar ego or something. It sure gave me a good laugh first thing this AM!

LynCM 02-20-2017 09:33 PM

HP shared this in yesterday's Daily Readings from Melody Beattie:


Originally Posted by honeypig (Post 6338603)
You are reading from "The Meditation Room" of Melody Beattie's website here: Daily Meditations Archives - Melody Beattie

Negotiating Conflicts

Recovery is about more than walking away. Sometimes it means learning to stay and deal. It’s about building and maintaining relationships that work.
— Beyond Codependency

Problems and conflicts are part of life and relationships with friends, family, loved ones, and at work. Problem solving and conflict negotiation are skills we can acquire and improve with time.

Not being willing to tackle and solve problems in relationships leads to unresolved feelings of anger and victimization, terminated relationships, unresolved problems, and power plays that intensify the problem and waste time and energy.

Not being willing to face and solve problems means we may run into that problem again.

Some problems with people cannot be worked out in mutually satisfactory ways. Sometimes the problem is a boundary issue we have, and there is not room to negotiate.

In that case, we need to clearly understand what we want and need and what our bottom line is.

Some problems with people, though, can be worked out, worked through, and satisfactorily negotiated. Often, there are workable options for solving problems that we will not even see until we become open to the concept of working through problems in relationships, rather than running from the problems.

To negotiate problems, we must be willing to identify the problem, let go of blame and shame, and focus on possible creative solutions. To successfully negotiate and solve problems in relationships, we must have a sense of our bottom line and our boundary issues, so we don’t waste time trying to negotiate non-negotiable issues.

We need to learn to identify what both people really want and need and the different possibilities for working that out. We can learn to be flexible without being too flexible. Committed, intimate relationships mean two people are learning to work together through their problems and conflicts in ways that work in both people’s best interest.

Today I will be open to negotiating conflicts I have with people. I will strive for balance without being too submissive or too demanding. I will strive for appropriate flexibility in my problem-solving efforts.

From the book "The Language of Letting Go: Hazelden Meditation Series."

I think this is the heart of my struggle. I am coming to better terms with the fact that his recovery is priority, but I am still dealing with these feelings of fear and resentment about his balancing family/marriage. I don't like the idea of it being a one-way street. I fear the fact that I could be putting in all this work and time, and he'll be sober, but having not have worked on our marriage, we'll have nothing to connect on anymore. I know I need to focus on me and my own recovery, but we BOTH still have this joint responsibility with our 3 year-old, right?

For example, we had a point of contention related to me wanting a 'heads up' about when he'd be home (after a day working with his sponsor, he came home at 3am. Key point here is that he USUALLY comes home between 10 pm and midnight. I rationalize that the driving force to my concern is generalized worry [he's usually home, did he get into a wreck? Did his car stall?] and of course I'm sure that deeper down I fear he left his sponsor's home and is now at a bar or something, but I delude myself into thinking that that isn't my main worry). I deleted about 7 draft text messages, because I would rationalize and think, "really, what impact is him not being home doing?" i didn't need him to care for our already sleeping daughter, i didn't need him to spend time with me (at least I don't think that's the case), there was no reason. Am I being irrational asking for that level of consideration?

I fear that I'm NOT allowed to address these relationship communication pieces, because I'd be going against the advice of most everyone, and I'm not putting his recovery first. "There's the wife, bringing up relationship issues. She's adding to HIS stress and stalling HIS recovery." Again, am I irrational for wanting a heads up, or a check-in? It's not like I'm asking what he's working on in his steps, but am I just soothing my OWN worry? Is this not a normal or reasonable request in a relationship with a recovering alcoholic? Am I stepping over a boundary again?

"Today I will be open to negotiating conflicts I have with people. I will strive for balance without being too submissive or too demanding. I will strive for appropriate flexibility in my problem-solving efforts."

53500 02-20-2017 10:35 PM


Again, am I irrational for wanting a heads up, or a check-in?
No. That is common courtesy. If it was my partner coming home that late - in the middle of the night, no less - I'd be worried sick and would absolutely call or text or both.

My partner is not a recovering A and I get the "his recovery is his recovery", but even so, IMO it is not unreasonable to expect him to let you know he'll be *that* late.

Having said that, I've never been in the situation of living with a recovering A. I left mine, still very much unrecovered, long ago. So I may not have the right insight on this.

LynCM 02-20-2017 11:03 PM


Originally Posted by 53500 (Post 6340837)
No. That is common courtesy. If it was my partner coming home that late - in the middle of the night, no less - I'd be worried sick and would absolutely call or text or both.

My partner is not a recovering A and I get the "his recovery is his recovery", but even so, IMO it is not unreasonable to expect him to let you know he'll be *that* late.

Having said that, I've never been in the situation of living with a recovering A. I left mine, still very much unrecovered, long ago. So I may not have the right insight on this.

Thank you for your insight, regardless of situational differences! It's nice having a group here that we can spitball ideas/irrationalities (lol) off of!

It's hard in this group, and in the Al-Anon meetings I've been to. It seems like people fall into one of several categories:
- living with an A.
- left the A/RA.
- living with a RA.

Maybe I'm not searching hard enough or haven't found the right meetings, but I haven't yet found a plethora of individuals in my third situation, sharing the trials and tribulations of his recovery and the struggles of maintaining a home life/relationship. Add in the factor of us having a young child, and the pool of people sharing that situation seems to dwindle even more. This isn't a complaint, just an observation, and perhaps that just means I need to do harder digging.

Back to your reply, thank you. I fear that THAT might be a rational thing to expect in a NORMAL relationship, but I almost expect people to tell me that this won't be the case. As someone quoted earlier (sorry, i forgot the username at the moment), all bets are off in early recovery. I just assume, if he is in recovery and still has to maintain responsibilities at work, surely that doesn't give him a free pass to shirk all this responsibilities (and common courtesies) at home, right? I keep finding myself coming back to a quote I found early on from Gottalife (RA) that I found in searching threads:

The whole point of AA is rejoining the human race, family, community, work, as a useful contributing member. It is not about hiding in meetings, which a lot of folks seem to like to do.
And maybe this is the goal, eventually. But as it seems to stand (and the response I'm getting from most), this isn't the case, at least this early on.

All bets are off in early recovery.

Forward12 02-21-2017 12:29 AM


Originally Posted by LexieCat (Post 6336220)
BUT IN THE BEGINNING, there is really no such thing as "too much recovery"--certainly there should eventually be balance, but it's way too early to expect that. And if it's been more than a year and he's still not engaged with the family (assuming he remains sober) then the "balance" issue can be addressed.

This pretty much nails it. I understand it is frustrating, but tackling alcoholism for most, is the most difficult thing they will ever do in their lives, and need to put 100% of themselves into sobriety to be successful, and that comes above everything, including spouses, children, etc,..
I know this can be frustrating, but it's what needs to be done, especially in early sobriety where people are the most susceptible to relapse. Like mentioned, once he gets about a year under his belt, things should settle down. Hang in there, and keep going to your alanon meetings!

LexieCat 02-21-2017 05:41 AM

Asking him to call when he's going to be home after midnight is, indeed, asking no more than common courtesy. And it's no burden on his recovery. It's not as if you are demanding that he check in every hour so you can hear how he sounds.

I'd suggest something along these lines: "I think it's great that you are spending so much time working with your sponsor, and I'm not complaining about that. I do worry, though, if it's after midnight and I haven't heard from you. I don't sleep well then, because I worry that you've been in an accident or something. If you could do me a favor and just give me a call or send me a text to let me know how late you'll be, I'd sleep much better."

If he has issues with THAT, then suggest he bring those up with his sponsor. It's utterly reasonable for one spouse to tell the other if they are going to be unusually late coming home.

FireSprite 02-21-2017 07:31 AM

Yes, calling about being late like that is nothing more than common courtesy. My RAH has struggled in ways like this from early on & while some of it was about finding balance in his "new normal", we also found that a very big part for him specifically was untreated ADHD. A lot of people find this in the absence of active addiction - underlying root issues/dual diagnosis that also need to be addressed.

Plus, quitting alone didn't create health for RAH - at 60ish days in he was still severely vitamin deficient, still couldn't regulate sleep patterns, had a lot of mood/hormone/energy swings, he ate chocolate bars like he was searching for the Golden Ticket to replace the sugar alcohol he'd been getting in large quantities, etc.

I think you're working hard at detaching & focusing on your side of the street here:


I deleted about 7 draft text messages, because I would rationalize and think, "really, what impact is him not being home doing?"
I would literally have to sit on my hands to stop myself from engaging sometimes. I can't tell you how many hours I sat online reading about detachment/dropping the rope/reasonable expectations or playing fruit ninja on my phone. Mantras became my go-to because I could breathe deeply & focus on a single thought, over & over & over.


Maybe I'm not searching hard enough or haven't found the right meetings, but I haven't yet found a plethora of individuals in my third situation, sharing the trials and tribulations of his recovery and the struggles of maintaining a home life/relationship. Add in the factor of us having a young child, and the pool of people sharing that situation seems to dwindle even more. This isn't a complaint, just an observation, and perhaps that just means I need to do harder digging.
I've had the same experience & also not complaining, but I was never able to connect with Al-anon groups as a result. I value their principals & teachings greatly in my recovery process but most of that has come through by connecting with Al-Anon members here at SR.

LynCM 02-21-2017 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by FireSprite (Post 6341248)
...had a lot of mood/hormone/energy swings, he ate chocolate bars like he was searching for the Golden Ticket to replace the sugar alcohol he'd been getting in large quantities, etc.

OH MY GOSH YES! I wondered about that! After he got back from his time in rehab, I noticed that he was 1) always cold, 2) always tired, and 3) eating pile after pile of sugary baked goods... donuts, turnovers, anything sweet. That makes perfect sense. I can't believe the nurse in me didn't make that connection!

I am sorry that you didn't find anyone to relate with in Al-Anon. I think I got lucky and stumbled across a good group, and the first friend I made kind of took me under her wing (still deciding if I want to ask her to be my sponsor) and told me about which meetings were good/bad in the area, fortunately I'm in agreement with her assessment - everyone welcoming, no drama, well-balanced demographics. Anyway, my search still continues for "wives of recovering alcoholics, with young children." lol. 'golden ticket' indeed.

flowerpower52 03-06-2017 11:00 AM

Recovery and Marriage
 
I have learned to set boundaries, do they always hold in place, No. One thing I learned early on was that I needed to understand the nature of the beast, so I read a whole ton. Then I was able to understand the damage, the mind etc.

Next up I needed to get therapy for myself and then for our marriage. If it was going to work, no AA person, No sponsor, No 12 step person would help with that as they aren't trained in the in-depth issues and ways to resolve those issues in a marriage that has been damaged. I found one for myself that helped with the co-dependency issues and we found one for marriage. A man with 48 years sobriety that specialized in our kind of marriage and wouldn't allow the crap to fall out of my husbands mouth when he was still new in recovery.

As I learned more about sponsors, I set the boundary with my husband that our marital issues are off the table for discussions with his sponsor and that if he had a need to talk about marital issues, that was for our marriage counselor. My experience in the AA club was one of gossiping tongues and I won't stand for that.

Early sobriety is the toughest for them and I found out that less was more with my RAH. Because of all the shady stuff he did we set a boundary that if he was going to be over 30 minutes past the end of a meeting he should call me. That was a simple boundary he could remember and easily understand.

I flexed and agreed that we would "schedule" time for us. In the beginning it wasn't much time and there was still so much hurt and anger and betrayal that lots of times our "scheduled" marriage time was zero fun. We stuck with it.

I didn't find help with Al-anon, I already knew how to have my own life, my own hobbies, my own time alone as during the active addiction that is what was going on. I also didn't like the whole "click" mentality nor the fact that some people were in the meeting droning on about stuff as it related to a dead alcoholic spouse or a divorced spouse that hadn't been in their lives for 20 plus years. I couldn't relate at all.

My RAH is coming up on 3 years. At first I would go to meetings or an event with him or whatever to cheer him on. It became blatantly apparent that "normies" weren't really accepted, tolerated, loved and I also became stressed out listening to all the self-serving, big-book quoting, hypocrisy I so often heard. I didn't like the level of maturity, and emotional immaturity, I didn't like the gossip, nor the attitude of we help people, well sometimes if it suits us.

AA works for my RAH and good for him. I don't need it to work for me. We have found a way to work on boundaries that he falls away from all the time, but we keep trying. We are at a place now that no longer does our marriage counselor encourage him to make his whole life recovery first, he now coaches him to learn to make his marriage as equally important, because we are united as one, not two.

For me the key ingredient was to have boundaries in place. If you want to be in this marriage we are partners, a team, not you have your own secret life and ours will come into play as it suites you. That is old behavior. In early sobriety we literaly had to have lists of chores he needed to do each day, lists of bills we needed to pay and what he could expect to be accountable for. Dates scheduled on the calendar that we both agreed to and that no AA talk or interruptions would be allowed. It was our time, usually it was a super short time because he was still so crazy and new in recovery but I wanted to support him as well, so I accepted and tolerated that for a time. He still jumps into commitments without thinking about our life, and commitments to home but generally I try to handle that as it comes up and will take on more at home in order for him to get the recovery he needs, but again I have to be careful for you give them a foot, they take a mile. When the foot starts becoming the mile more often than not, I gently remind him of the boundaries. He too is learning to set boundaries, as he should!

I have seen quite a few people say usually after the first year things will settle down, but don't hold your breath for that to happen, it will be better, but it's not the be all end all of the recovery. What we have learned is that it can take 3-5 years to really settle in.

Berrybean 03-07-2017 02:57 AM


Originally Posted by LynCM (Post 6336141)
totfit, I am so appreciative for insight like yours from the other side of the fence. My relationship with my spouse isn't terrible. We have good communication skills usually, and we don't shy away from feelings/emotions. I like to think I consciously try to not push him to talk AA or recovery if he doesn't want to, and I have the perception that he acknowledges and is appreciative of that. His AA world is his, that's fine. The impact, as you've hit right on the head, is that his extended time with his sponsor (is it really extended? is this normal, and I'm just stinking up a fuss?) is impacting what little family time we have. He's not spending time with our daughter (or me, but I'm more concerned about the development of their relationship).

There was a post that I came across elsewhere (unknown source, I apologize), where a sponsor was talking about his sponsee:


In my (inexperienced) mind, there HAS to be a balance. Like you said, what's the point? And I know it turns into a chicken v. egg thing (family without sobriety, or sobriety without family), but WHY does it have to be an all or nothing situation? You can't ignore family/work/life and expect to come back to anything healthy there, either! I have so many possible analogies for this, but it has to be obvious. I know AA is important. I know recovery is the priority. but when other things get neglected, they're going to decay. I guess I'm not ready to watch my family decay.

Tangent, I apologize. clearly that's a topic that gets me very heated. But back to your response, I will work harder to do what I can to focus on me and my daughter, do things for US. Not let my husband decide my happiness for me. Thanks again for your insight! :)

Can I just double check. He was with this new sponsor from 8AM til 11PM. From 8 in the morning til 11 at night? Is that correct?

That seems a long time to me if I did read it right.

If it is the case, then hopefully this is just to give him a real firm footing, and they're presumably getting a lot done quite quickly. My sponsor gave me the stuff and spent a few hours for each step explaining it to me, and making sure I understood it, then left me to reflect and work on it. The next meeting I'd go through what I'd done and then she'd set me off on the next step. Steps 5 and 9 were more heavy going. Thing is, that stuff is pretty exhausting so surely they're not doing step work all that time?

Are you satisfied at heart that he is where he says he is, and with who he says he is? I hate sound discouraging if he really is putting that amount of work in, but just thought I'd ask. Maybe it's a regional difference between how sponsors work. Or maybe he was a real hot mess and needs that level of support. I dunno. Let us know how it progresses.
Have you read the BB yourself? There's a section written specifically for partners (a bit old fashioned in language and tone and it makes some people's blood boil, but it does explain the commitment and what it is, (and what it is not) pretty well. The other thing to read would be the pamphlet about sponsorship which you can download from the AA website, it'll be under literature somewhere.

I would say that actually, if it is not a short term arrangement and his opting out of his paternal responsibilities and relationship become ongoing and regular, then you have every right to express your concern. The steps are supposed to enhance our relationships and lives, not detract from them. Our sponsors help us understand the tools at our disposal, and teach us how to use them, so we can go off and use them. That is always going to be a slow process to an extent, as we can't change all our thinking overnight. 8 in the morning to 11pm sessions, and treating those who love us without due consideration or respect is actually not part of the program. Not at all. If his sponsor is encouraging this then in my opinion that's not good. Perhaps the sponsor doesn't realise that this is causing problems, and he may think that your partner is texting or calling to keep you informed.

Anyway. This turned into a ramble on my part and I apologise for that, but your predicament has been playing on my mind.

I suppose the thing is, AA is very very close to my heart. It has been a life changer for me. In many many ways. As well as keeping me sober, and bringing me maturity and sanity, and some accountability, it has gifted me my first sober female friends that I have been able to be close to and completely honest with. It helped me reconcile myself to God, and Trust him to love and forgive me. It brought me home spiritually. For this reason I find it disturbing when the fellowship causes problems for the partners of the people it is supposed to be helping. Most of us arrive at AA having already caused our families quite enough heartache and distress, and the last thing we should be doing is adding to that in our recovery.

Anyway. I hope I haven't spoken out of turn or said anything to cause distress. You and hubby (and his sponsor) continue to be in my prayers.

God bless you and your family, BB

Ladybird579 03-07-2017 03:20 AM

his sponsor has my spouse go to his place to work on the steps from 8a-11p last Saturday, and nearly the same hours on Sunday.

Forgive me for asking but are you sure he was with his sponsor? That seems excessively long.

LynCM 03-07-2017 08:08 AM

You are both correct, it was from 8am - 11pm. I believe him when he tells me that he was with his sponsor, and I've never had any doubts about his whereabouts.

As of late, I did have a general discussion with him regarding his hours away, and we have formed a compromise of sorts: I have learned to be more patient and less expectant, and he will work on setting boundaries with his sponsor and check in if he has the opportunity or if things are running later than normal. I'll reply more once I'm on a desktop computer; typing this on a phone is hard enough :)

MCESaint 03-07-2017 05:05 PM

Reading this thread and, hopefully, don't hijack it. In my case, W is A - I'd say recovering A (having come out of rehab a month or so ago), but was off the wagon last weekend (she drove up to neighborhood bar).

Like the OP, we have children: a 16 year old and a 2.5 year old.

I had "stayed out of her recovery" (and her rehab stint): didn't pry into rehab or, really begrudge the time it takes away from the family.

Still, life goes on. Bills need to be paid. Diapers changed. Etc. SOMEONE has pick up all the slack at home while at the same time working a full-time job.

To me, I interpreted "supporting" her recovery as making the "space" for her recovery to happen.

Oh, your AA meeting on Saturday is at 2pm to 3pm? Ok, honey, I'll watch the 2.5 year old. You do what you gotta do.

But, after the latest relapse . . . I'm not sure that I'm supporting her recovery rather than making life easy for her - because this just continues the narcissism of alcoholism (me and my booze first) into the narcissism of recovery (me and my recovery first).

Today, though we are barely speaking after latest relapse, AW called and asked if I could be home before 6pm - when she has an AA meeting (she likes this one best because it's an all woman's group).

My response: no.

Honestly, after *all* of the schedule twisting, home balancing, and other stuff we've been through (so that she could go to meetings, go to rehab, etc.) . . . it just dawned on me that *SHE* needs to find someone other than me to "solve" these issues/problems associated with her (alleged) recovery . . . and that someone else is really: her.

She has NOT said it this way . . . but, still there's an undercurrent of "I'm trying to get better and if you loved me, you'd help me by doing all of these things like altering your plans, etc."

This strikes me as more manipulation. When she fails . . . as she already has . . . it becomes another "excuse". My husband didn't support my recovery (which is the counterpart of - "I can't do this without you" - sure you can . . . you drink without me just fine).

Perhaps I'm thinking about this all wrong . . . but, in contorting MY life (work hours, relaxation hours, etc.) around HER recovery "schedule" . . . she cannot fully recovery (because part of life, real life, is learning to deal with *all* of the daily mess of life). And all I do is get pizzed off if/when she falls off the wagon (because why/what am I doing all this contorting and schedule re-arranging for).

Put differently, if she has a meeting and needs to find a sitter for our 2.5 year old - then (i) go to a meeting where the same is offered; or (ii) find a sitter - pay one if necessary - other than me.

Or am I just rationalizing being an ******* tonight?

MCE Saint


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