No contact
 

I need suggestions please. No judgements! I think the hurt my stbxah causes and probably more to the point, the hurt I allow and the hurt my own codependency has caused is making me think I need to go no contact. I was trying to wait until divorce was final. For those that have read my post know this is my second husband. But I have loved this man my entire life since we were 8. There has never been a time in all of those years even us married to other people that we didn't talk. This isn't like my other marriage. I was able to leave and it was easy to go no contact with him. But my stbxah is someone that I truly wanted in my life. I know I need to put distance between us so I don't keep thinking our marriage has a chance. It is just something I am not sure I will be able to do. Any suggestions on how to do this or what has worked for you on going no contact? How do you not care if they are ok or not? How do you block someone that won't have a way to reach you if they do change or need something etc?

Hi, I'm doing no contact with the man that I loved with all me heart, the man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. We were together 11 years. I have to maintain no contact if I am going to heal. No other way around it. I do not think I will ever get over him totally, (I'm 50 and do not see another big love in my future) , but I am learning to live without him. I gave him to God and am letting him live the life he wants., I am powerless over him and the decisions he makes. It has been over two months, while I think about him every day, the pain is getting less. It's time now for me to stop dreaming of reconciliation, as this just keeps me stuck. I am very sad and I worry about him ,but try to remember to give it to my higher power ,my love is in gods hands now.

Searching - You have a child with him correct? I think you could lay boundary for contact and become more stringent about it. Not sure I would advise blocking him if he has custody of your child part of the time.

How about texting / email only about child and no phone or personal meetings?

Anything legal should go between lawyers.

Give yourself some time and space away as you've been through a very tough time.

No, my three children are from my first husband. And they are all old enough to have contact with him on their own if they choose. He has basically abandoned all three. But my son sometimes sees him or talks to him. My son is like me in the regard it is difficult for him to understand another person's behavior that is so foreign to anything he would do. And he keeps thinking his dad will all of a sudden change and be a dad to him and his sisters. But not an A and not my current husband.

Searching, you asked about how you can let go of the worry about whether they are OK. One of the things that helped me go no contact with my last AXBF was to accept that his well being was between him and his higher power. He was really never mine to take care of or protect. I was never that powerful.

I had a look at your old posts, and you have been through so much with this guy, domestic violence, emotional abuse, financial abuse. I think it's terrific that you are thinking about going NC. You have come a long way, and how wonderful that your father left you this legacy of a house where you and your children can be safe. You don't share any children with this guy and there is really no reason for you to be in contact at this point. Why not hand him over to his higher power and focus your love and energy on yourself and your children?

SP, if you're strong enough not to contact him, then blocking him may be unnecessary. You could draw up strict business-like guidelines about what contact you'd respond to, like legal matters. Otherwise NC.

If you don't feel you can be strong enough, then any contact should be direct through your lawyer, or a third party, and you can block him.

Hi Searching Peace~ I just went through this with someone who felt like family to me, my soul mate. I was down for life. This is what I did to go NC and heal.

1. I wrote prayers for him every day. I prayed for his spiritual awakening and for God to reveal it's will for me in the relationship
2. I wrote prayers for myself. "God please show me what you would have me do in this relationship."
3. I read everything I could on NC and the benefits.

I took it one minute at a time, it was hard and some days I'd drive around not knowing where to go, completely lost on my way to his house and someone would call right at that moment and I'd pull over.

I forced myself to meetings and to share- I took it easy on myself, very easy. Mornings were the worst, I almost broke down many times but I didn't.

It's 31 days today and I found (not by asking) he's still sober and okay.
He put a rose on my door and that was my sign. He can't do anything like that when's he's drunk, he can't even walk. I'm still in NC until I don't know when but it's ODAT

Your HP will reveal to you if he is okay .in a gentle way, in a way that is not harmful.
When you go NC, things get quiet and both of you will begin to heal.

Have faith, we are here for you.

May I ask the context of your contact with him currently? You are still in process of divorce now I see you do not have kids.

I can't think of any reason why you should be in contact. The only thing between the two of you currently is a legal proceeding which should be handled by your attorneys.

You mention that you are still hoping your marriage has a chance did I read that correctly? Is this why you are still in contact with him?

Redatlanta,
Yes as embarrassed as I am to admit this to you and on here where everyone knows what I have been through. Yes you read that correctly, I stupidly do want to save my marriage and yes that is why I have had contact with him. Durning this last year since his arrest, we have opened up to eachother more than we ever have since college. We have been open about our own short comings and how we were working on them. We have discussed the abuse and he has told me he doesn't want to do that anymore, etc. He is still living away from our home. He is afraid to come home. Everyone is telling him that if I call the police again, he will go to jail for a very long time. He is afraid he will loose his temper with me or that things will go back to the way they were before the arrest of he moves back in. But I have seen him become much calmer, more patient over this past year. What hurts now, is that he is away from the home. I am here alone with the kids. He makes plans with me on weekends and then breaks them. I think this is so he can drink and be alone. I feel isolated, alone and abandoned when he does this. He has more than alcoholism going on. There is some really messed up thinking and psychological issues. He has kept me at arms distance since we got married. He doesn't want me to be around his kids. His ex wife that is remarried doesn't like me and doesn't want the kids to have a relationship with me. His oldest that is a senior in high school has been manipulative since we first started dating. I understand kids all want their parents to get back together and she thinks I am standing in the way. She told him if he stays married to me, she will not be around me and will not come over to the city we live in. I have witnessed her behavior so I am not taking my stbxah's word on this. All of this plays with his head and he feels guilty for being with me and my kids and it is the reason he has and keeps pushing me away and is really the root for his abuse of me. He ex and his kids have made him feel very very guilty for being married to me. They have used that guilt to really get to him and come between us. His father was abusive to him, and he goes above and beyond for his kids so that they have the opposite experience with him. Unfortunately, he treats me the way his father treated his mother or worse. But he is aware of that and is trying not to behave that way anymore. The hurt of not being around him all of the time and him pushing me away to pull me back in is gut wrenching to me. I do not know if it is due to alcohol or just a way for emotional abuse or due to his guilt over the kids etc. but regardless of why, it is destroying me. I can't keep being strung along and so that is why I am considering NC.

Well I guess my question no longer matters. My stbxah went no contact with me yesterday. He told me he loved me on Saturday and was planning our future together and then Sunday went no contact and I have texted him and emailed him. I know he has received the texts. He cut off all forms of financial support and it is against the judges orders, so I have an appointment with my attorney on Wednesday. I hate not knowing what happened. But at this point, if he is able to treat me the way he does and not care about me or my kids or our well being then I need to get over him. I keep thinking about our friendship and knowing him my whole
Life. But he isn't thinking about that or me or anything but himself. I am beyond sad. But hopefully I won't be pulled back in again. I think one reason this is so difficult is I have had to relive being dumped over and over by him. He pulls me back in just to hurt me again.

(((SP)))

You have a lot more power than you think. This is your chance - to get stronger, to heal, to recover, to take care of yourself, and to be with people that TRULY love you.

He'll probably come sad-sacking back to you at some point with a big story and a bunch of nice things to say. If you grab a hold of this time without his quacking, and focus everything on you - on making a great life for yourself by yourself, and being the best person you can be which starts by being good to yourself, you'll be ready for it when he does. You will have realized how much better your life is without him in it.

Sending you lots of peace and (((HUGS)))

Thank you fire bolt and everyone for all of you kinda words of encouragement. He called tonight. I answered and he began to just go off on me and saying things that he says are the cause of him divorcing me which are not true. He said I keep him from being with his kids. That is the furthest thing from the truth. I encourage him and support him to go to where they live and be a part of their lives and always wanted them to come to our home. But his ex stopped that a few years ago. He is very over the top with his kids and she knows this. She knew keeping them away from me would drive a wedge and she has used those kids to come between us. Right before his trip last week, he told me that he does see his oldest daughter as manipulative. But, then he goes into this crazy talk and crazy thinking and blaming me for them not being with him. I told him tonight if he is going to blame me for something to please make it something that is real and not something in not doing. At one point in the conversation he was getting angry with me for different things and he got mad that I sent him a text when he was on the phone with someone and he was saying I was relentless and then he just screamed at me to leave him alone. It was so harsh that it took my breath away. I couldn't speak after that. I was crying but didn't want him to hear me crying and I just couldn't say anything. It was much worse than it sounds. Whenever he is away from me for more than a day without seeing me, he does this. He becomes mean and nasty and puts up these huge walls. Tonight was bad. And as much as I wish and have prayed for him to be normal in his thinking, he isn't. He blames me for his kids being moved away. And he blames me for all the bad in his life. I love the man he has been with me all of the years before his kids moved away. But since then, he has been horrible to me. And I am not getting anything from this marriage or relationship except someone being angry with me all of the time and always yelling at me and blaming me. I really tried to save my marriage, my friendship with him. I tried everything I could to be a good wife to him. But nothing I ever did or said mattered to him. And he can walk away from this life long friendship without thinking twice is awful. There is nothing I ever could have done to please him longer than a day and I now know that. I hate it. But I cannot do anything for him to see the reality. His ex and his children don't want him with me and he has and is allowing them to dictate how he treats me. I'm sorry this is long. I am going to go try to find something else to focus on right now. Being rejected, especially when I have given everything I could have and tried and been willing to do anything to save a marriage and still being rejected and discounted really is the worst thing I have ever felt. Divorce is so much worse than a death. If someone dies, they didn't choose to leave you and people feel sorry for you and there is no shame and no one thinks you did anything wrong. In divorce you are left alone and they chose to leave you. How can I have been going through this since October 2012 when I found out he was an alcoholic and still be so sad and distraught over his rejection of me.

SP, remember that you can always hang up, turn off the phone, block his number, etc. Why keep letting him yell at you? I know how hard it is. I was always like a deer caught in headlights when my AXBF started raging. Going NC started for me with turning off the phone periodically. The peace and quiet was so great that I decided I wanted it all the time!

trust me hon, it IS worse when someone we love DIES. my first husband, my daughter's dad, died shortly after she graduated from college. we separated when she was ONE but remained great co-parents through out since he died I have had to solo parent.....there have been countless times I wish he was HERE to help me thru the next phase of our daughter's life.

I have had many conversations with brian in my car......that's when he shows up and tell me everything is gonna work out. chill out. i'm doing a good job. alhto divorced for many years, I helped the family plan his final arrangements....cremation and memorial service. while his long term GF was "unable" to speak, I took the podium for brian's memorial service. I helped pick out the music.

this was one of the tunes and what he says to me in our "car" meetings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYCpWblDKok

I wish every day that brian was still here. his baby girl NEEDS him....as it is she is stuck with me.



SHE hasn't had a dad for 13 years. i'm all she's got. she doesn't even have a drunk dad off somewhere.........

It is gut-wrenching. My heart hurts for you. I'm so sorry. I know this feeling.

Remember this--there is no shame in your behavior. You will eventually find peace knowing you did everything you could. Hold your head high for that effort. You have NOTHING to be ashamed of. Be proud.

My XAH began a public affair when he moved out "to work on himself" (he didn't know it was public and denied it the whole time...in my loving denial I half-believed his lies, which is crazy looking back). Long story, but in the end he married her 6 days after our divorce was final. I was afraid of what people would think if XAH could throw me away after two decades. How awful could I be that I couldn't keep that marriage? Especially compared to the woman he chose!! I'd look around at other women who were just awful to their husbands and wonder why It was ME. I really tried, forgave, and loved. I really was a GOOD wife. I struggled with this pain until my heart finally accepted my brain's hammering words...his rejection didn't define me as a person unless I allowed it to. And his rejection meant absolutely nothing at the end of the day anyway, because it came from his own set of warped values and behaviors. Deep down I knew better. But how could a man who knew me so deeply and loved me reject me so harshly?

In my case I believe that as my alanon-ish behaviors increased once I understood addiction, his anger that he couldn't hide from himself or blame me increased, so he had to find validation elsewhere. He tried to make me feel like garbage along the way. It was utter heLL.

He never filed for divorce, by the way. I had to do it even though he was the one who wanted out. Realistically he wanted to keep me there to leave and return if he needed me. Then he blamed me for "wanting out" when I was exhausted. I was on a rope he yanked around until I got the courage to cut it. (Yours might not actually follow through either- words are cheap.)

Today...I'm proud I DID file. I didn't give up. I chose to love myself half as much as I had loved him. And God (my HP) smiled on me.

Sending you tight hugs. I know these words may sound hollow today...but I believe better days will come.

Thank you Praying! Your words really help and o will read them probably more than once or twice.

Anvil, I'm sorry for your loss. My first husband the father of my children abandoned them and it has only been me as their parent for the past 10 years. So I understand the feelings of having to do the parenting alone. My pint was her father would have given anything to be there with her and to help you parent. My first husband chose to leave his kids and chose not to be a parent and my current husband is choosing to leave me and not be with me, as my friend, my husband nothing. I apologize if I offended you. I did not mean to. I was speaking for my own pain. I have had a much more difficult time with my husband leaving than I did with my fathers death. And my father and I were extremely close. I would not choose to leave someone that wanted to make thing work in a relationship as badly as I did. Again, I apologize for offending you.

Praying, I'm sorry for all you went through. And you are correct his affair and his marriage after your divorce has everything to do with his inadequacies and nothing to do with your worth.

Thank you! Looking back now, I wouldn't trade it. I'm so much more... REAL... than I think I'd have ever been in a different life. I was divorced a little over two years ago, but sometimes I can barely remember it, like it was a lifetime ago. That's how much things can change when they change. I am so serene and content. And I know who I am.

You'll find light if you keep on walking. Day by day. The pain does stop.

I am sorry for all this SP. Your STBXAH has a problem with any accountability. It is true that many times Ex's will use the children for manipulation. I look at that a couple of ways - this is something your XAH knew was going to happen upon entering a marriage with you, it already was happening . He had a choice to not marry you and play by "her" rules. I wouldn't let anyone dictate my life that way, but I do have to put it out there he did make the choice to. Secondly he had legal rights to these kids and should "she" choose not to play by Judge's order your XAH had recourse through the Court system. If he chose not to do that that was also HIS choice inclusive of stopping them from moving.

I'm going to be straight up honest here in what I perceive is going on. You have remained in contact with this man throughout this entire ordeal, you were in contact with him when there was a P.O. and you were explicitly told not to, I now see your contact has been very frequent and that you have seen him quite a bit. If I am to understand what you wrote he gets very nasty if he hasn't seen you for a day. BTW you don't have the power to be the difference between whether he gets nasty or not. His is nasty period.

Yet the divorce is still moving forward its never stopped. I hope this is a wake up call to you to stop being this mans doormat because I feel his continued contact with you is to manipulate you through the divorce proceeding. I think you are very hung up on romanticizing this relationship due to loving this person from the age of 8. I don't blame you there because it is romantic if he was a decent human being. He's not though. He is an abusive alcoholic who has been arrested for abusing you and whom continues his tirades against you weekly.

There has to be something in you that is dying by allowing this kind of treatment. The more you put up with it and allow it there worse you feel about yourself. Why is it that you have waited this long to go back to Court when he has not been paying you? I know why. Promises, promises, promises. If he was intending to get back together with you why is that Divorce still on the docket? Why is he still living separate from you? OH because his ex-wife!!! The Kids!!! Oh poor me I don't get to see my children!! Oh my children won't have anything to do with me if I get back together with YOU! He's a rotten father. He has kicked your children to the curb like a bag of trash and if you think he has been such a stellar example and father figure to his own kids you are sadly mistaken. You are his "beard" of excuse to neglect, abuse, and drink.

Lots of hugs SP, lots of them. Lets get you on the road to recovery. You don't deserve this treatment, you don't owe him squat. You owe him nothing.

Thank you redatlanta. That is what I needed to hear. And you are right. He has made these choices and he did know exactly what he was getting into. And every action he has ever had towards me has been a manipulation or abusive. And you are so right, I have romanticized him and our relationship. You are right on everything you said. And I'm sure you are right, I'm sure he is just doing this to manipulate the divorce. The reason it hasn't gone to court yet was because it was supposed to be heard in March, I had not hired an attorney and his attorney was trying to bully me into things. A week before court, I finally hired an attorney. I have a meeting with him on Wednesday and the new court date is scheduled for September. I didn't mind it dragging on because I was trying to find a job and he was paying status quo. And I had hoped stupidly that things would change and he would want to try to work at our marriage. I dropped the DV charges against him. Well I talked the city attorney into dropping them. The PO is still in place but that is because it was moved to the divorce court when he filed for divorce and nothing has been done with it. I thought he had changed this year. But his verbal, emotional and financial abuse have remained as you pointed out. And yes I guess it has been weekly tirades. I'm scared. I'm scared to be completely alone and try to support my three kids on my own. I don't have a college degree and I can't seem to find a job. I wanted someone to go through life with. I do not like the way he treats me 98% of the time. I guess I keep hoping and praying the person he was before his kids moved would somehow come back. I know how irrational his thinking is and I just think maybe he will start thinking rationally and normal. But you are right I have got to figure this all out and find a way to move forward and not take this from him anymore. I need to find the strength not to respond to his text or his phone calls. I know I need to give up on any hope I have of things changing. Knowing these things and doing something about them seem very far apart to me right now. My brain knows the truth but my emotions seem to take over.

It's ok to love someone from a distance. I don't think that you can just switch off feelings, but I do think you can rationalize out in your own head if it's good for you to be in contact or not. That just because you love a person does not mean you should be with them or speak to them. Some we love are toxic to our own selves.

Tight, very tight, hugs. XXX

I'm scared to be completely alone

Well, what did he do to alleviate any issues for you of being alone other than running his trap?

Who manages the house? YOU
Who takes care of the kids? YOU
Who finds a way to manage with no money? YOU
Who seeks out ways to help themselves?YOU
Who cooks dinner? YOU
Who transports the kids where they need to go? YOU
Who listens to him blather on about himself? YOU
Actually who does it all? YOU

What does stbxah do? ZIP, NOTHING, ZERO.

Ok - so being alone is something you already are and probably were in your marriage as well. You do alone just fine. Its ridiculous for me to pose to you that you can and will meet someone else its so meaningless when you are upset like this - but that isn't the last man you will ever be with unless you want it to be.

Take all that focus off him and put it on you in positive ways. How about getting a degree, or a trade? How about doing something you always wanted to and never did. Its best to get yourself to a point you never have to rely on another human being to survive. Very empowering.

Redatlanta, thank you so much for your posts. You have helped me so much today. I agree about being self sufficient and not ever depending on anyone financially again. I have applied to so many jobs. I have thought about going back to school. I am a gemologist by trade. But haven't worked in the industry for 20 years. I do a lot of renovations on homes and thought about getting my contractors license. I think a woman would be great at that because we are detail oriented and most of the time it is the wife that is making the decisions on the renovations. I'm in the process of doing work on the little house we bought. I have the thought of selling it if so have to. And if I don't get a job soon, I will have to sell it. I cannot afford to move in right now. I can't afford to pay movers and I cannot afford utilities to live in the house. I hope I get some money from the sale of this house in order to help me until I figure things out.

I sent my husband a text today. I told him I was walking away. I told him how much I love him and how I have done all I have known to do and that him not wanting to see me or spend time with me was not how to repair a marriage. I addressed the issue of his kids and explained I would never stop him from having any relationship with them and that I only encouraged and supported him seeing them as much and as often as possible. I said a lot of things. But I told him I am going away and if he wants a friendship, relationship or marriage with me then to please let me know. I reminded him how important our marriage was to me and how serious I took my vows to him. I asked his forgiveness and once again asked him to give me and the marriage another chance.

I do not know if it is my very strong faith, my unwavering commitment to him and my strong loyalty to him that is keeping me to continue to want to try or if it is my extreme codependency. I did find a codependent group that meets on Tuesday nights on my city. And im going to go next week. Tonight we celebrated my daughters 20rh birthday.

I have read so many people on here doing things and I can easily see from the outside how district ice or code it is. But I don't know with me. I want to let go. I want to walk away. But something inside of me is telling me to keep fighting for this man. Not to give up on him or us. I know logically and realistically I should walk away and never look back. But because I grew up with my husband, I know what he went through as a child. I know how abusive his dad was and I know how unhealthy his home life was. If he was anyone else, I would have left years ago.
Redatlanta, you make so much sense and give me so much strength. I'm really going to need your help in the next few days. I am going to try not to contact him. I'm going to try to focus on me and my children. I'm going to try to move forward and have a plan for my life. I just have never ever thought my husband wouldn't be on my life. But he is sick and I know that. He won't forgive me for the arrest, he doesn't see that he did anything wrong to get arrested. He blames me for so many things and has convinced himself and his family and friends that I am someone I am not. He thinks of me as some horrible person. And I would go way out of my way to not hurt someone. I only want to have a positive impact on all that I interact with. I just don't get how he can tell me he loves me and wants us to move forward in our marriage and then leave for a week with his daughters talk to me and tell me he loves me on the phone in front of them and the get back and not want anything to do with me. I don't understand it, but I accept it is what it is. And I am beginning my no contact tonight.

Food for thought, as I felt very similarly to you regarding wanting to keep that door open--if you don't act, you don't act. It's fine to tell him to show you a sign or say he wants it, but if he doesn't jump back in WITH BOTH FEET, it's time to act, or you'll remain in limbo and the pain will go on indefinitely. I hear in your words that maybe you just aren't ready yet. That's okay, but most likely the words are wasted on him and will only increase your agony.

For me, I filed for divorce and planned a cross-country move "home" with our kids...all the while holding a glimmer of hope that someday our paths might cross again if he chose to get his act together. I really believed in him. I really thought we were meant to be together. But--the day I truly chose to leave I said nothing else. I told him this is what you've said many times, I am filing for divorce, this is best for me and the kids. No reasons, no feelings. He'd heard them all before. He could have fought it if he wanted to. I did leave him a very sweet letter praying that he faces himself and approaches life with no fear--and saying that I would always believe in him and be in his corner. But nothing face to face.

It's okay to still believe in him. But your prayers, your love, your strength--cannot replace his own. Sometimes it's better to believe from afar. I'd seriously consider ratcheting up the aggressiveness in the divorce/DV process. Show him you mean business and you're not going to mess around. (IF you mean business...)

SP, you have a very strong emotional bond with him which you can't seem to break, even though it's obvious your marriage isn't viable. He's abused you physically and emotionally, his ties to his family are too strong, he's an A, and he's at the mercy of the ex and his children and you come a distant second. That's harsh I know, but those are just the bald facts (and I've been in your shoes).

If you can't give up hope, all you can do is hang onto your pride and dignity and power through your pain. Don't contact him at all. Don't answer when he calls to rave at you. Don't leave yourself open to manipulation if he tells you he still loves you. You must be as strong as you've ever been. It will hurt like hell, but at least you'll have your pride, and your self-esteem will grow. You're going to need that to set up a strong future for yourself and your family. You seem to be good at self-sacrifice, so you can frame it that way, except this time you're sacrificing for your children.
Are you seeing a therapist, or doing anything for your mental health?
I've been through a similar situation and had to try lots of little things to make it better. After a year or so, I realised with surprise things were getting better, I just hadn't noticed. So it's worth setting yourself out a program of recovery and goals even if they don't seem to be helping at first.

I agree about being self sufficient and not ever depending on anyone financially again.

In my estimation this is why you are having such a hard time getting rid of him. I'm not discounting your feelings for him - but lets face it you are in a bad predicament without his financial help. That is a scary place to be. Money (believe it or not) is the easiest thing to rectify because emotions are not involved, and there is no such thing as a debtors jail. You have skills. Like the idea of getting a contractors license look into the requirements. If you have a FB why don't you post that you are looking to get some work in this field, or just ask your friends to put it out there. You may be surprised to find you are employed quickly.

I told him I was walking away. then.....But I told him I am going away and if he wants a friendship, relationship or marriage with me then to please let me know. I reminded him how important our marriage was to me and how serious I took my vows to him. I asked his forgiveness and once again asked him to give me and the marriage another chance. This seems manipulative to me. You threaten to walk away then close with ....please give the marriage another chance. This kind of response is very conflicting. I think you are trying to scare him that you are done, but not really. Come on SP. Sometimes it really is better to just say nothing. No one is forcing you to say to him "I'm done", so if you aren't you aren't, but you don't have to tell him that. This is very transparent to me and I am sure to him as well.

or if it is my extreme codependency. I'd say so. Good on the meetings keep up with them.

I just don't get how he can tell me he loves me and wants us to move forward in our marriage and then leave for a week with his daughters talk to me and tell me he loves me on the phone in front of them and the get back and not want anything to do with me. Mmmmm because you are in the midst of a divorce and he is trying to manipulate you for a better settlement. He is not paying you the temporary alimony or whatever it is he is supposed to me paying. He knows how to push every button on your body. I would not be surprised that if he is looking at contempt for failure to pay he suggest you move back in together or something of that nature. His actions of manipulation are equally as transparent as your own to try and plead with him to stay with you. In other words he is having his cake and eating it too. Do you see this?

He thinks of me as some horrible person. And you desire to stay married to a person who thinks this of you? Come on. He has the freedom to think what he wants. You cannot control that. Seems to me its important for you to be "RIGHT" as far as his perception of you. Move along from needing to be right or to solicit an admission from him that you are a nice person. You know who you are you don't need this man to define it for you.

He won't forgive me for the arrest More reason to move on lest your idea of a positive relationship is to pay him back forever for being arrested for abusing you. Every time he ever does something wrong it will be blamed shifted to you for having him arrested for physically abusing you.

You can do this. Keep your focus on becoming financially independent. An idle mind is the Devil's playground. Finding a job can be a job itself. It will help your self esteem tremendously just trying. I really feel if you can make progression in this area you wouldn't put up with as much of his crap.

In my estimation this is why you are having such a hard time getting rid of him. I'm not discounting your feelings for him - but lets face it you are in a bad predicament without his financial help. That is a scary place to be. Money (believe it or not) is the easiest thing to rectify because emotions are not involved, and there is no such thing as a debtors jail. You have skills. Like the idea of getting a contractors license look into the requirements. If you have a FB why don't you post that you are looking to get some work in this field, or just ask your friends to put it out there. You may be surprised to find you are employed quickly.

I told him I was walking away. then.....But I told him I am going away and if he wants a friendship, relationship or marriage with me then to please let me know. I reminded him how important our marriage was to me and how serious I took my vows to him. I asked his forgiveness and once again asked him to give me and the marriage another chance. This seems manipulative to me. You threaten to walk away then close with ....please give the marriage another chance. This kind of response is very conflicting. I think you are trying to scare him that you are done, but not really. Come on SP. Sometimes it really is better to just say nothing. No one is forcing you to say to him "I'm done", so if you aren't you aren't, but you don't have to tell him that. This is very transparent to me and I am sure to him as well.

*-I didn't look at this as being manipulative. I wasn't trying to be. I am very confused and he has sent me mixed messages. I have said to him, to my attorney, to everyone that I want to save my marriage. I love my husband very much. I do not like the way he has treated me or some of his behaviors. But I love this man and would do anything to have a healthy marriage with him.

He thinks of me as some horrible person. And you desire to stay married to a person who thinks this of you? Come on. He has the freedom to think what he wants. You cannot control that. Seems to me its important for you to be "RIGHT" as far as his perception of you. Move along from needing to be right or to solicit an admission from him that you are a nice person. You know who you are you don't need this man to define it for you.

*- I do not want to be "right" in this scenario. But I do care what he thinks of me. To me, in my mind, he is still my husband and his opinion of me matters more than anyone else's while we are still married.

Does it matter more than your own? Not a dig, an honest question.

I grew up in an addicted home. I was taught to value myself only through what others thought of me (or appeared to think of me anyway, who can really ever know something like that).

Learning to value, love, and respect myself was key for me in letting go of toxic relationships. I don't see anything healthy or nurturing or respectful in what you describe with this man. I only see you projecting what you hope he is or could be onto someone who has repeatedly shown you his true self. You can try to figure out his motives and real feelings and desires until the cows come home, but it costs you. It costs you time and energy you could be pouring into the only relationship you are guaranteed to have for the rest of your life -- the one you have with yourself.

Thank you sparkle kitty, and I don't take anything yall are saying as a dig. I am very appreciative of all input. I know I am having a difficult time seeing my reality while in the middle of this. And yes you are right, I am trying to get back the man I fell in love with at 8, and again in high school and college and even after our failed marriages. It wasn't until his ex moved the kids away that he became this person he is now. So you are correct I am trying to make him into something he is not at the moment.
I really appreciate your and redatlantas input along with everyone else. I have said before it is easy for me to see someone else's situation clearly, mine not so much. I am truly trying to concentrate on me as much as I can. Thank you again!!!