How many counseling sessions did he attend with the new therapist (this current one) that she arrived at a formal DX?
I remember you saying that she offered to have him try medication to help and he refused?

I guess if she is a licensed physician she can write for you or as my therapist did (she was a psychologist, not an MD, she had my primary write for me).

From what you write he is quite capable and smart, but knows he has a safety net if he doesn't like something, or it stresses him out. He also knows you won't let him freeze or starve. he has no reason to have a survival instinct.

I did NOT know that you are in your 60s, my apologies, I thought you were in your early 50's, this changes my view. You should be getting ready to enjoy retirement, not be consumed with worry and being manipulated.

He is NOT just YOUR son and responsibility. He has a father who should shoulder some of his support if he cannot provide an income and doesn't get govt. assistance. I know that you hate contact with xhubby but, if you don't have enough income for anything, he should fork over monthly help until his son gets a job. if he were physically handicapped would he ignore him?

in the meantime, just as a suggestion, there are many day labor places that hire and pay cash for the day. There are formal ones and informal ones. Lots of men gather in the town square every morning around 7AM and are picked for working that day, transportation provided. My own contractor and landscapers use them. My brother frequently employed these people for the scut work. In NJ it pays about $15-$20. an hour, they put you in their truck and take you to the site, drop you back off in town.

Thanks so much, everyone, for the help.

I am not giving up. Yes, I have seen some improvement. It's just that I am beginning to see how he has been functioning...see it more clearly now.

and it surely was not the job for him.. I wanted to tell him not to take it, honestly. I work for the same grocery chain that he got hired by.. just across town from my store. I know how they work, and have good friends in that dept, who struggle each day to manage the work load. They share their frustrations with me.. and they are weary and underpaid.
its never a happy place, always working with too little help, too many expectations.. company puts profits before employee needs, trust me. but, I didn't want to discourage him,, it was a victory to him. At least now he knows not to work in a deli ever again!

oh, how I hate the gloomy weather.. therapist asked me if SAD affects me. I think it does. I wish they had sunshine beds , without the tanning effects. I bet they do.

working on detachment now in....4, 3, 2, 1, lol.

Fandy.....a small point here, LOL! early 60's is young! Not everyone retires at 65, any more.
That was an arbitrary age that was established long ago when the average life span was different and the economy/work force was different. Where I come from..lots of people work into their 70's and even late 80's. A few out lyers even have gone beyond that!
Now, it is not uncommon for even those "retired" to work a second part-time job.

Age is just a number...and attitude about what age means makes all the difference.

I'm just saying that early 60's is still young!

dandylion

Yes, Fandy, but I am a youngish 62LOL.. and not able to even think about retirement, due to my lack of financial planning, and lack of good pay. I will be working for as long as I can, no doubt. thats ok.

Therapist saw him twice. I told her most of his history, in most of my sessions with her, so she had some idea along with the impression she got from him. She is unable to prescribe meds. She wanted him to see the psychiatrist, but no go from son. He thought he did enough to keep the internet. I do believe he got something from it, the light bulb got a bit brighter, but without regular counsel, he won't face it.

yes, he knows I won't put him out unless he gets crazy- I did put him out once. and he went to a shelter for a while. a friend 'rescued' him. I can do it, but won't unless its absolutely necessary. You don't put mentally sick people on the street to fix them. The homeless are made up of lots of mentally ill folks,,, tough love doesn't work on everything. It does in many cases, I know. This is my family.

I guess you don't remember my telling you about his dad? and his step mom who says different things .. one- that he is a worthless piece of shat, and should be thrown out on the street.
two- that he is mentally ill and needs help.

then she proceeded to email me that she would die before she lets his dad help him there at their home. she is the most vile person I know. all my kids think so, except my son, who gives everyone the benefit of the doubt before he would judge them.

his dad is spineless, selfish, most likely has a disorder his self. my life with him was one of me being neglected, totally. never had new stuff, but he had new things before bills were paid. we were always leaving due to owing rent, having utilities shut off. etc. but he had the best of fishing equipment, guns, metal detectors, whatever he wanted. no amount of words from me changed a thing, so I divorced him.

his wife has been jailed for embezzelment. they move from state to state. always far away from my kids, but always near hers. (from previous marriage) she just left a job, rather quickly, where she was a book keeper(she always gets those jobs) for a huge, profitable boat company, where the owners were rich and old. they have moved to another state far away. they always have money for new stuff. new cars, etc.

his dad is more than happy to have that witch to blame, for not being part of his kids life. I cannot talk to him anymore. He gets holier than thou, and it makes me wanna make a ****** doll of him and her..lol just tells me to throw him out. tells me to shut off internet while sending him new computer equipment.

Yes, he should help, but if you have a way I can make him do that, please send me your ideas! I still think he punishes me for divorcing him, actually. his wife is like the tazmanian devil-loud, and know it all, and abrasive. I would love to give you her number! no one would believe them.

I will remind him again, about the work force group. they are about 6 miles away from us though. there may be some group closer though, in temp services.
oh, gotta run to get ready for work.

lol, I am 56!!! I don't think 62 is "old", it is the end age cut off for my dating profile.
yes, that is the name of it, "work force"....maybe you can drop him off daily and he can find the bus route home?

perhaps drag some legality into the papa's house? there are many attorneys with law clerks that need experience and do bro-bono. I used one and won a civil suit of $3300. from an old BF who thought I would roll over and say OK, just go and don't give me $$ towards bills when you lived here.

Perhaps a warehouse job would be good for him. Brainless but analytical work and somewhat independent and not customer-facing. I think it may be time for more boundaries so he doesn't bounce happily right back into his cushy safety net. Definitely the entire internet should be OFF. None. Do you work a regular shift that is during the day? Perhaps he needs to be out of the house while you are at work. Maybe drop him in an area of the city and let him pound some pavement, see who's hiring, fill out some apps, and see how people in the real world live. As long as their are very few consequences, he won't be too motivated to change anything.

Chic - I'm following the thread, just don't know what to add. It's a baffling situation & I know you're torn in many directions. I'm just happy you've wanted to share what's going on so we can show how much we care & sympathize. I probably would have isolated and not told anyone. Prayers for guidance and relief from this will continue. :hug:

Costco is always hiring, you must apply on line...my *elderly* retired brother works there for $11.41 an hr. And a free executive membership, pumping gas for 25 hours a week, he doesnt have to lift anything heavy-duty, just mans his station of 8 pumps.
My brother is 67, he retired 2 years ago. Most people I work with or nieghbors, my sil, retire at ages 60-62, but we are state govt. and have pensions/free health care.

thanks Hevyn... I almost didn't post. But I need the support and what I learn here.
Thanks for understanding.

Fandy, I might keep that in mind for when I retire, someday. I don't ever want to slow down. I have lots of energy when I am happy.

hugs.

Just wondering here....what about taking son in with you for counseling appmts. I always take David in with me as we would not be able to afford separate counseling and it sounds like a lot of your time spent in counseling is about your son. It really works grand as far as I am concerned, since we both effect each other and we can resolve things and negotiations in a calm supportive environment with help. Maybe only every other time if you want time alone. Since the issues are the two of you, I would feel very positive about trying this route.

I want to thank you for recognizing that mental illness is a real physical disease that does impair a person, and, yeah, you do sound depressed by the situation and I think that is very understandable. I take meds, (you know that I HAVE to), you don't want to; however, I still find that vitamins and supplements esp D3 and B complex make a world of difference for me.

((((hugs))))
T

Live....chicory.....that sounds like a good idea to me..! I can't think of any reason, under the circumstances, in the negative. I don't think it would hurt to pass it by the therapist.

Good thinking outside of the box....

dandylion

Great idea, Live, except that he is unwilling, totally, to go for counselling. Each time I mention it, he gets angry. It would be possible, but not if he won't go.:(

He has been drinking , and was enjoying his own party the last few days. My heart is aching, because along with his mental issues, he is no doubt an alcoholic. I know I cannot change that, no matter what understanding I show for his Personality d.

I am just crawling back to the place where I have to let go. I know I will not throw him out, but there have to be consequences.

I will probably go to Adult Childrens forum tonight, to post my feelings. I was so full of sadness last night, and want to put my story out there.

In short.....To have been a child of alcoholics was bad enough...so much sorrow, tears, fear, disappointment. Being neglected, practically invisible, love starved.
My children were the first real love in my life. literally.

Now my first born is an alcoholic and my heart is crushed..I know I cannot stop that. I could not beg my parents, love for their children wasn't enough to reach them.
and now I get to watch my beloved smart adult son ruin his self with alcohol. I feel like that is just too cruel. but I am not special.... life can be cruel and its worse for so many. gotta get off my pity pot, and I will. just grieving here.

I don't think its hopeless, btw.

I sometimes think the alcoholics are the lucky ones.... they can numb out from it all.
Those of us who love them watch in pain.

my son is capable of better choices. but nothing I do is gonna help. As Cece's post to another mother said.... it only prolonged things to help.

I did call my mechanic. sounds like the rotors were shot.. they turned them last brake job, instead of replacing them,,, trying to save me money. they have probably warped, from being thin and heating up. it doesn't sound too expensive, but costly enough..lol.

son is going to my sisters house, to help rebuild a shed(he has construction experience) for a week, maybe. so I will have time to myself here, to think. and do my aerobics in the living room:)

P.S. (((Live))) I am not saying anti d's are not an option.. I will do that if I cannot bring myself out of a funk... and I do take D3, but b complex, I think I misplaced them, and must get some. I do believe there is much good in treating depression if you cannot beat it on your own.

Mental illness is why I cannot throw him out... its almost like he is clueless, at this point. I will get him to therapy , if it is at all possible. somehow. maybe if i buy him a case of beer each time he goes? just kidding...

hugs to you Live...:hug:

Chic, i'm sorry for you, i figured he was sneaking booze, and this shows such disrespect for you.
You need to learn to be a tough shark, he is walking all over you. He has now gone over every boundary you set....
Regarding meds...i never found one that agreed with me, but all of them made me gain weight ( which depresses the hell out of me).
What does work (for me). Is 400mg of SAM-e and 2 st johns wort and early am cardio exercise with coffee. The sam-e also helps with joint pain. In the winter i double sam-e because of the dark mornings and afternoons.

Fandy, is it SAM-e right off the shelves?Will grab some today. I cannot take st. johns wort, it makes me itchy and nervous. I have heard good things about the SAM-e, though.

I wish I had a nice treadmill. the cheap ones hurt my joints.

I know Fandy. I need to be a tough shark. I knew he was sneaking in booze. he has never kept his word to me before. past is the best indicator as they say. Sleeping in , he does that, because he stays up on the computer, even with the limited crap we have. but I know the signs.. heck, I can smell it.

He tried. I know he tried. for a few days anyway. I hope he wakes up someday.

Therapist said to check in to therapists who take his health care. dual diagnosis therapy would probably be the only helpful ones.

Sam-e is otc in the vitamin section. The best one is called "doctors best"brand and it is the cheapest.
I get it from drugstoredotcom.
There are different strengths, 400mg ( 2 pills) before noontime, takes about a week to work, but I can tell the difference when i run out.
Regarding exercise, there are lots of things you can do instead, right in the kitchen. The counter makes an excellent ballet bar.
You can't control his actions but you can change yours and stop letting him manipulate you. He has no consequences, zero.
I know you don't want to hear this, but the only way to get unstuck and less depressed is to take charge of your own life...He dictates your life and how you feel depends on what he is doing. When he does well you feel happier. When he screws up you get upset/depressed.
He is an adult with no intention of growing up, he doesn't have to.

Awe Chic, I am not going to add anything except to say that I am sorry, my heart hurts for you. I do agree to take good care of YOU. I am here, reading this, supporting you.

Tight Hugs my friend.
XXX

Until there are consequences, nothing will change.

chic..as you are a kind soul that has maintained life and sanity with your
wits more so than with hard core shark talk..to me sharks circle..I always
relate sharks with pirates..and although as you stated candidly you can talk
Pirate...You graciously take all said and think it out and work
it as best you can..then apply it in your gentle manner..because gentle is
your way..and gracious is your soul, however hurtful the information may come.

I appreciate your talents..your understanding..and mostly your ability to always
come back standing on your feet..

Refiner .. does your son/daughter/husband/relative..have this problem as well?
I would also like to hear your experience's..strength..as it would help how you
have done consequences as I also have a son similiar to Chics..it would be valuable
to many I'm sure,on how you overcame your adversities. I guess it is my role to read
you up first.

anyway Chic..always thinking of you..no solutions other than taking in information
that is of value..and thanks for being brave and posting this thread.

Hugs
lauren

Thank you my darling Lauren! Always have my back, you do:hug:

I don't know what Refiner wrote, I put her on ignore, and who knows anything about her? she never shares, only criticizes.

so no worries about that Lauren. But thank you, for lifting me up. I know that writing what is going on is going to get criticism.. while hoping more for esh, I steel myself for the things that only serve to make me feel worse about myself.

And I am glad that I don't tear others down like that. It never helps. Its their problem when they make cutting criticisms... they need to work on that!

(((Chic))) - I thought your were going to bed?

You know all about my family, the major disfunction that went on. The things I would not post here, as I knew what people would tell me. Yes, I would understand what they would say, but they were not in my shoes.

I didn't post, but you did, so you are a stronger woman than I.

I have no advice in your situation. I have many relatives that are dealing with mental illness, but they are at the other side of the country, for me, so I don't have to deal with it f2f.

All I can say is you know my story of dysfunction junction, and you understand. You know there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Keep doing the best you can do, set boundaries when you can, and pray. Not very good advice, but it worked for me.

Love you dearly!!

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

wonderful advice, Amy.. the best advice:scoregood

yes, there is light at the end of the tunnel. its all in those baby steps. I am farther along than I was, anyway!
love you too, sweetie. thank you:hug:

Chic, I think that if you want "ignore" someone who upsets you it's fine. However, then don't mention your opinions on their views and postings.
I find Refiner's overall postings to be accurate, helpful and compassionate.
Great that you are making progress in your life, because it's long overdue time to be reasonably happy and content.
i hope you keep up with therapy and find a ftf group to lead you out of this codependent mindset.
we all have our saturation point. I remember mine in 2006, many events lead up to it, i was calm. The new locks cost me $50., the block on cellphone and email was free, and i changed my house phone number too. Real no contact and i did not even know that was what it is called!
i was done making excuses for my daughter's bad behavior.
the next round proved me to show much less patience this year. It is still very painful but i am better coping because of my support system and learned lessons.
I don't care if she is drinking, crazy, depressed, in debt or has no heat, bipolar or commits murder...she overstepped one too many times. My door is open, but she can't continue to wipe her feet on me to come in.

Fandy, I believe that if someone can give their opinion on my thread, I can give mine in return. Your idea of compassion and mine are different, obviously. some people are 'boot in the face' reactionaries, but I am not.

My son aside from being an alcoholic, has a mental disorder...he does not deserve to be locked out, thrown out, and blocked. If that was something you had to do, thats not for me to judge you on.

Mental illness is real. You don't just kick them to the curb. Thats not loving and I am not ashamed of that, no matter how hard some here try to shame me. I think some people just love to see someone else booted around. one size does not fit all...

This does not always work for people with mental issues. if it did, I guess the therapist would have recommended that.

He has been homeless, actually, stayed at a big shelter in a big city, pounded the pavement, among lots of homeless and sad and dangerous people, but that was not what he needed. He needs help, and that is what my thread is all about. I knew there was more to the problem than alcoholism.

I have appreciated the helpful and supportive comments, and yet I do not want this thread to turn into a negative thing. I will ask the mods to close it now and I will post in a more appropriate place.

hugs,
chic

.

Chic, those of us who know you well and your situation, are rooting for you and praying for both you and your son. Mental illness makes your situation different from mine with my son, and with many here. Some people do not know the full story and in trying to help offer solutions that don't fit and feel like judgement to you.

Just remember that every person who posts here cares. Some understand better than others, and we are all cheering you on.

I haven't much to offer today except that I care deeply and keep you both in my prayers. God has you covered, never forget that.

Love you lots and lots and lots xoxoxo

Hugs

Thank you Ann.

love and hugs.

Okay folks, please remember that only personal experience with the issue being discussed is valid for a post. If all you are going to do is give advice then kindly walk away from the keyboard. Only licensed professionals can give advice.

I am closing this thread.

Mike
Moderator, SR