Yes, you are right on this front. I think even my AGF can sense this, because when she asks if she can drink/get alcohol (something I find so laughable after all the deception), she says she can tell I don't really like it.

Duh! :headbange

Yesterday she said to me, "I wish we could drink together more often and have fun. I wish you could drink more without feeling sick." And in my head all I could think was, "Yeah, and I wish you would drink LESS." But there's no point in saying it yet again, so I just nodded.

Yeah, the cigarette thing was a juvenile as it gets. But again, she was still drunk, so there was no point in even engaging.

isitme, thank you. Yes, I do not want to get to that point. I really do feel as though i am going to end it sooner rather than later (and yes, I know how that sounds), but I need to work up to it. It's a scary thing, and something I simply can't do yet.

But I know I will have to, soon.

I too didn't read all the way to the end before posting.. I gotta stop doing that! LOL

I'm super glad you're applying for the program, it could be life changing in more than one way. Annd.. the cig instance scares me in more way that one. It's no fun to be manipulated and tested all the time.

Keep thinking forward. :)

(I think we all understand sooner or later.. it's a really really tough spot to be in. And if I'm truthful.. I'm still there with you)

Thank you! :-) Yeah, that kind of thing (the cig thing) can be more than just annoying. My AGF has told me in the past that she doesn't like the way I hold back and refuse to say anything when things bother me, so she has started (mostly when drinking) to push buttons and look for reactions.

I guess she sees it as a flaw. If she only knew the reason I am holding back is because "I want you to move out" is the thing lingering at the end of my sharp tongue, ready to stab her in the face. (Sorry, my inner horror writer coming out). :a108:

Onipar- I don't know when I read or where I read or heard this but it's not exclusive to al anon or even dealing with an alcoholic...

The thing is, if you wait until you feel sure and confident about your decision to end things or are waiting to feel less worried about doing it that day will NEVER come.

I waited for x, y and z for a long time before I finally left my xah. I was afraid to stay and miserable staying and also afraid to leave. Being stagnant and miserable was preferable (though insane looking back) to doing something new that might have an outcome I could not predict.

I kind of hear that same thinking in your words (and I think it's a common part of the process so I don't mean to sound judgemental). It sounds like in your head you know what you need to do but emotionally you aren't there yet.

What helped me was repeatedly being reminded (and again I could not even tell you where I heard this) that our feelings don't need to dictate our actions. I could feel afraid, unsure, uncertain and still ACT and make a change. Sometimes you have to take that leap of faith and act before you are sure. It took me a long time to get to that point where I was ready to act without being sure of the outcome. Much like an alcoholic has to hit bottom and decide that the alternative has to be better than doing the same thing again and again, I had to get to a point where maintaining the status quo (detached and all, much like you with your AGF, I was miserable day in and out with my xAH) was more intolerable than the fear of the unknown.

I guess what I am trying to say is to encourage you not to wait until you are sure, or wait until you have everything figured out. You know it's not working, you are getting nothing good from this at all and you have a lot of great things in your life to look forward to that you can't devote energy toward bc your AGF is taking up so much of your energy. Don't wait until you are positive because that day may never come. Decide that being happy is possible and take the leap of faith to do something different and remove yourself from your AGF.

I was TERRIFIED of what it would be like to be apart from my xAH. Even though he was awful and I was miserable, it was at the very least, familiar. I wish I'd heeded the advice I am giving you when it was given to me because the time I spent waiting, planning, getting things in place etc... was just time wasted that I could have spent in peace with my daughters.

Hope this all makes some degree of sense...

It absolutely does, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your encouragement and support.

This is exactly right. Emotionally, I'm not ready. I love this woman, and will always love this woman, so the idea that I finally got her back in my life only for me to end it is an awful realization.

It's something I'll have to come to terms with though. :c021:

you know what? just a thought here. all the pushing buttons they do, all the in your face actions to get a certain response to happen=more chaos=more hurt=more reasons to cut them loose. they do know this. they self destruct and in their brain want to be abandoned even though often saying they fear abandonment. it's very sick. the whole cycle.
when i was finally alone i figured out the only thing that scared me was losing him and our future. but there was no him or future. i was scaring myself over nothing. it wasn't even there. pretty crazy on my part! i have a great future ahead of me without him. i never would have it with him. i was spinning wheels the whole time. being alone is not bad. being in what i was in with him was bad.
you will get there in your way. i know you will. but don't let imagination run away with you or fear of any specific thing stall you if you can help it. it's the hardest thing i've ever been through but it's also turned out/is turning out to be the most educational thing. student of life for sure.

I was just talking about this last night with a friend!

I can't make decisions based on feelings. Feelings come and go, they wax and wane, and sometimes they're just irrational. What I can make decisions with are the facts: Can I trust you? Do you have my back? Do you support my decisions? Do you lie to me or others? Do you hide things from me or others? Do you act with best intentions? Do you break the law? Etc etc. The facts usually don't change -- not like feelings do.

When I was able to set aside my feelings and lay the facts bare, it was absolutely clear what my path should be. My love and attachment for the alcoholic, my fear of change and my fear of being alone, were keeping me hooked into an exploitative, one-sided relationship. My STBXAH says he loves me, but his actions are all over the place. Whether or not he means it is now besides the point. It was stupid of me and unfair to me and the kids to stay in the relationship based on attachment, fear, and obligation. I made him leave, and I don't regret it.

People have pointed out to me (and interestingly enough I can see it clear as day in others but to see it in myself took me YEARS) that while I continued to say I loved my xAH, they could not for the life of them, see why.

I would say that deep down he was good, that I saw his potential, that I recalled the good times etc...

But what I think it came down to for me and so many others I've read about on here who've said the same thing is this: By the time things reached a point that I was posting on here and asking for help and losing my mind with the insanity of the disease and all it entailed, I think I was in love with the IDEA of what I had thought my life with xAH would be. I did not want to give up the image of what I thought we would be. I did not want to throw away the time I invested in the marriage and the tumultuous years of the relationship prior to marrying him. Like you say of your Agf, I said I loved my AH and really probably did.

But the problem here is that they aren't able to love us back. I tried every which way to perfect myself and fix myself and took on my marriage as a project to fix. I am someone who succeeds at pretty much whatever I set my mind to and I figured that with enough time, patience, love, forgiveness, support etc... I could make my relationship work too.

That isn't how it works and I hope before you miss out on opportunities, lose parts of yourself, lose friends, start to feel terrible about yourself etc... all because you love your aGF and think that will sustain you in the relationship, that you really ask yourself if you love her enough to give up your own happiness because that will be the tradeoff.

In a healthy relationship people compliment one another and enhance one anothers lives. They don't save, fix, fill empty holes in, tolerate manipulation/lies/game playing... If you saw a loved one in a relatioship like yours, what would you tell that person?

A quote that really stick out in my mind is this one:"we accept the love we think we deserve".

Do you perhaps think that you won't be able to find someone else? Are you worried about being alone? Are you repeating patters with your gf that mirror things in how you grew up?

I ask all of that bc those are hard questions I was asked (and in true denial/defensive/codie manner I said no to all until I was ready to be honest with myself) and they really helped open my eyes (once I was ready) to the fact that I was repeating deeply ingrained patterns learned from a young age.

You mentioned last week you have this helping need in you (I am a teacher too-- maybe that's part of why we like to teach?) and how much of that is tied into your self worth? Do you feel you have to take care of your gf? Do you think that if you show her you are there for her enough that she will see the light and want too get help and then you can have the happy life together that you want and deserve?

Just things to think about.

Hang in there....

It's funny, I've already been through the whole "break up" thing with my AGF before, so in a way, I know exactly what to expect if we break up and she moves out. And in that same way, I'm not really afraid of that the way I would have been if I hadn't already experienced it.

When she first moved in here, I did tell her if things got out of hand, I'd ask her to leave. And due to that, I also managed to keep somewhat of a clear head and not get too emotionally attached. There was always this part of me that I held back, knowing things might take a turn for the worse.

So in terms of asking her to leave, I know I can handle it emotionally once I do it...the problem for me at the moment is getting the nerve to do it.


That's interesting about being a teacher and wanting to help. I wouldn't be surprised if these things are connected.

In answer to some of your questions, I don't so much fear being alone as I know I will be alone when I ask her to leave. Does that--in part--cause me to hesitate when asking her to leave? Yeah, probably. That whole "someone is better than no one" mentality that I KNOW is wrong, and yet can't help but fall victim to.

And yes, at the beginning I thought simply being there for my GF would cause her to want to get better (in all aspects of her life). I know that isn't the case now.

oh onipar. it is so good you are here and getting really great advice and input. i hope you know we all do it because we've been there and we know the drill regardless if our stories differ somewhat.

do not let yourself fall victim to the mentality someone is better than noone. i'm searching for some solid example to give you but the only thing i can come up with is this: YOU will not hurt you. think about you! the slow deterioration of your emotional well being is happening(imo)being connected and in close proximity to the gf. find it in yourself to completely grasp you are valuable, you are worth more and deserve more in life than biding time with a person who is on the path of self destruct.

you've said you understand you can not fix her. you've broken up before so you know what to expect there. when she first moved in you knew to state if things went south you would have to ask her to leave. this meant alot of different things like always but somewhere in you--you had the ability to state it. she heard you, she knew then and she knows now.

you have to take care of yourself. you just have to. there will be repair time you will go through which you already know. there will be tears but i bet you have already had those. i did. i do now but it's different and not as often. you've seen here how many of us state we wish we had done it sooner. we don't say it only because it gets better once we are free of them. we say it(at least i do)because for every day i remained active in the relationship more damage occured i am now working on. the cumulative effect of the extra time i delayed doing what needed to be done was tremendous in the end and now. but i'm ok and you will be ok, too. each of us here is doing ok, better and some are further down the line than ok and better!

love yourself enough to protect your own heart. it is not something they do for us. we have to do it ourselves. someone out there will cherish that heart of yours one day as much as it should be. it isn't something you want or can imagine right now and it will be however long it needs to be before things happen with another person in the future. between now and then--you stand up for your own heart and health and make the first step to real happiness.

you can do this. we all can. we may falter, we may slip but we all hold on to ourselves as tight as we can because our lives depend on it.

I envy the fact that you were keen to her wrong-doings and are not getting caught up in a life-time of misery! So glad you found this site :-)
If you are contemplating getting out of this situation, you may want to before she gets fired, because as hard as it would be to ask her to leave - it is going to be so much harder if/when she is unemployed!
Just something to think about in case you haven't already!

I worry about the same things, Peacedove. The rest of my life is on-track too. I am professionally succesful. But, I have decided that I should look at this as an amazing chance to grow. I am not going to make these mistakes again. I am going to be so much more awesome than I was.

me, too. i am growing. i have to tell you, when i saw the word awesome it made me kind of cringe because he would always use it "i'm awesome", "you're awesome" or " i can't find anything wrong with you-you're awesome!!" uuuugggghhhhhh. lol. you can tell i'm in whatever stage it is where seeing something triggers a memory which triggers a feeling.

i'm glad you used it. please don't think anything. what i am doing with it is saying to myself "yeah, i'm awesome alright. and i'm going to be awesomer!!" totally wiping out proper english on purpose. thanks for your post.
awesomer than ever!!

Oh yeah, I've thought about that. I'm still struggling though.

Every day that I read and write on this site, I gain insight and strength, but every night when I pick her up from work, I seem to take two steps backward and never seem to get the words out.

Yesterday, after I picked her up, I had to stop at the store, and she immediately made a beeline for the liquor store and bought a handle of rum. I kept my mouth shut, but on the way home she started in about how shes "bored" and that all she does is work, then come home, watch tv and go to sleep. And how she wants to do other stuff but thinks I don't want to.

And then the kicker, she slips in: "And I'm just drinking out of boredom."

I blew a gasket and told her that I *never* say no to her when she wants to go do something, and I'm always up for going out and doing things, and how she has some nerve trying to lay the blame on me.

Then I said something like "Hell, if we can go out and have a good time, and that will result in you drinking less, all the better."

She of course latched on to the drinking part, asking where that came from (completely forgetting she JUST SAID she drinks out of boredom).

So by time we got home, I was working up to the big discussion. But of course, yet again, I was too weak, and I turned it around.

Instead of saying "I want you to leave," I said, "If you aren't happy here, you can always leave."

She didn't say much to that, and I harped on about it a while longer (if you don't like it here, if things aren't going well, obviously we've been having some problems lately, etc etc), but that went nowhere.

So yeah, another failure due to weakness, although I do feel like I'm working up to it. With all these talks, and all these problems being brought up, it seems like only a matter of time now.

You do know, that you don't have to go down crazy lane and feel guilty about asking her to leave, don't you?
No...you don't.
Think about that.
Why do you feel guilty about the thought of asking her to leave?
She knew who she was picking when she came to live with you. She had you pegged, for what, exactly, I don't know...but I do see something there that she saw--this vulnerability to feel guilty, like you owe her something.
What do you owe her, exactly, and why?

wonder what she would like to do for activities she would enjoy and not be bored with?

why the conversation i'm only doing this because i'm bored=excuses/blaming/not her problem it's something else

immediate run to the store for alcohol always like groundhog day over and over again the same thing

another bad car ride whether it's AM or PM then it carries over in to your home which should be place of peace, warmth, love, support, kindness...

how are you going to tell her to leave when she gets fired from her job if you are unable to do it now while she is employed? how happy will you be when she is there 24/7 most likely drinking the days away?

we all had our weaknesses when this happened to us too. otherwise it never would have happened. your weaknesses are being preyed upon by the gf. every day is another emotional battle, verbal battle or some kind of battle either between the two of you or on a better day maybe just with your own self. but how fun is that? not! how much more downhill slide within your own self do you want to experience? really think about it because we tend to look at them and what they are doing as the downhill slide. uh uh. they think they are fine and they are actually doing what they want so there is no slide until they realize it. meanwhile, the reality is: WE slide downhill a little more each moment of each day. so focused on them or even if we decide to not focus on them then they bring something in to the car, the house, the bedroom or our breathing space which is negative and toxic.

stop letting yourself be abused. you are worth more than that. you know it.
prayers

I just wanted to offer support and encouragement. I know how hard it is to walk away. I hung in there too and luckily my STBXAH husband did me a favor and filed for divorce after I obtained a protective order for abuse. I still love him with everything in me. We have a son together and another son on the way. Only you will know when the time is right for you. Leaving can seem harder than staying. Just remember, the only person you owe anything to is yourself.

Onipar,
It is hard to leave. And then, somehow, you end up married. And/or with a child. And then, as the alcoholism progresses, everything goes to sh$t. I am leaving my husband of almost 14 years and father of my children and his drinking is nowhere near as extreme as your girlfriends (his behavior is excretable, but that is another story). The longer you wait, the worse this gets. Said in all gentleness.

May I kindly suggest that you read a few of Tryingtoletgo3's recent posts. I imagine when she got married, she never expected to be literally fighting for the life of her children. But alcohol and mental illness can turn someone into your worst nightmare. Maybe I should not post this. Maybe you'll just say, well THAT would never happen to me, I would not let it, or she would never be THAT bad. I am just so sick reading it that I can't help it. Save yourself. You are young and full of potential. And you are not doing this woman any favors. Show her the dignity of facing her own consequences. That is the most likely way to save her life.

You know, I say all this, and I fully recognize that when I was young and in love, and if my husband had been doing the sames things as Onipar's girl back when I married him, I may well have stayed with him anyway. (He had other issues, but I was not aware of drinking until the past few years). I don't think I had the maturity or insight to do anything else. But you are here, reading this forum, Onipar. So I have hopes for you.

Signing off the forum now, in case I am letting my codependent emotions get away with me.

Thank you all. :You_Rock_

Archangelesk, no, I need to hear this. I'm overtly aware of the way my posts sound, especially to those of you who have already struggled through this. To me, I feel I'm making progress, however sluggishly. To you, I must sound hopelessly lost and stuck.

Every time I relate the day's new addition to this post, you must all bang your head against the wall and scream, "Get out now!"

Yes, I have the tendency toward feeling guilty and self pity, and yes, I do have codependent traits. But I'm also now becoming more and more aware of these things, and becoming stronger and more resilient by the day.

Very soon, I hope to make that post: She's gone.

I can relate!
This is your life - don't think of it as being selfish for looking out for your best interest.
She obviously thinks it's all about her! As most active "A's" do!
I am so glad that I finally have opened my eyes and started putting myself first (well most days anyway - lol, but it's a start!) thanks to this site and Al-Anon!

I have heard that where your mind goes, your heart will eventually follow! I think that's how it goes....hang in there...you'll get there! You have a lot of people rooting for ya :-)