Blame based existance
 

Hi

I'm on a vacation with my sisters and adopted brother, their significant others and kids, and my dad. My father has married an amazing woman and can somehow keep it together when she's around, but otherwise is still as shaming and blaming as he was when I was a kid.

The kids can't be too loud, or run in the house. I think i would accept these rules if he weren't such a ******* ******* about it. We're all terrified of him.

Is this part of the alcoholism, or is treating kids like they're in bootcamp common for this generation? My father was a cop, politician, military guy, very sexist and harsh in general. He's been a total dick all of my life.

I've been working on this same aspect of myself because I don't like it, the first thing I reach for when something isn't going my way is to find somewhere to lay blame. I've been consciously working to have acceptance in the moment of what is, without blaming anyone. Being more solution oriented.

I'm shocked by my reaction to him yelling at my kids. It's harder to take than I thought it would be. I haven't spent any time with him in years, because of this behavior. When my sisters are around, we can tolerate him together but everyone knows he's a jerk.

Thanks for listening. I'm just focusing on getting packed up and out of here now. Please send Valium. Thank you.

Sending hugs, at least, Transform, sorry no valium. I'd be shocked by your reaction if you didn't react to it. No words of wisdom, just letting you know you have virtual shoulder to lean on.

This sounds very much like my Grandfather. No nonsense WW2 vet. Drill sergeant. My way or the highway. Very difficult person to be around for any length of time even though I loved him dearly. He was not an alcoholic and never drank. He did not seem to derive pleasure from treating people badly, majorly lacking in personal and social skills, depended on wife for those and seemed oblivious to any damage he caused. Just a self centered person.

Whether or not it is the alcohol is an interesting question because parts of the persons sober personality might be magnified when they drink, but then again some people who drink behave the complete opposite from their sober personality.

Thanks Guys.
My dad is mostly sober now a days, thanks to the new wife. But of course his behavior is still very much self obsessed, critical and inappropriate. He told my 10 year old this morning (I wasn't there my sister intervened) that his frizzy hair made him look like a meth addict and he was embarrassed and hoped none of his friends saw his hair.

I want to scream at him right now, I'm so angry. I will do damage control as soon as I can get the change, with the son, but what do you say to a 67 year old man that says that to his own grandchildren?

I didn't speak to him or let him see his grandchildren for nearly 3 years because of that kind of behavior. I'd like to think I can talk to him directly and tell him he needs to never ******* do that again, but am so angry.

I'm glad we're leaving Wed...:(

I know a lot of guys in the military and my brother in law is a cop. They are very nice people, don't blame, and don't shame.

Your Dad's just an *******. Protect your kids from him-- the damage can last a lifetime (you of all people know that). Please don't under estimate the harm he has done and is doing.

Cyranoak

Yeah, thanks I"m not underestimating the damage he can do, that's why I haven't talked to him in three years.

Like I said, I will do damage control with the kids, most likely on the way home, but I also need to say something to him about the way he talks to the kids. Make sure he knows it's not acceptable and he can't do it.

Bizarre that when his wife leaves he behaves this way, but not while she was here. He also didn't speak to my son this way in my presence. I"m furious but know I need to calm down to talk to him.

My dad is not drill-sergeant-like, but he had this way of commanding and shaming. If others did not comply with what HE wanted or thought should happen, he was nasty as sin. He's 85 now.

One thing that changed the family some was saying "No" to him, or if he said or did something mean to one of the kids, we'd say to the kiddo, right in front of him, "That's not true." That started about 15 years ago. It sure freaked him out at first and he was furious and mean, but the rest of us stayed calm and just wouldn't engage him.

I think it was important for the kids to see that we, and they, should not cower to bullies, which the ole fart was. Not so much any more. I think it was good for him. NOW my kids (24 & 20) think their grandpa is such a sweetie. But they didn't like him much growing up!!

Thanks BlueBlooms, my sister did this too. It's funny that she was the one there when he said these things to my kid, because she is SO freaking loving but also speaks the truth-unlike me and my PTSD.

My sister told me called him out and said, "he doesn't look like a meth head and you shouldn't say those things to your grandchild."

That should work for now. I, obviously, have to asses whether or not he'll respond to direct communication. What I've found with the kids is they can actually talk about how inappropriate he is, they know that he's an ass. It still hurts them, but because they've been raised differently, they lay blame on him for being hurtful.

Transform, We didn't do it to change him- I never would have dreamed that that would happen, and frankly did n't care if he did. We did it because my mom and I didn't want my daughters to grow up the way we did, bullied or choked off.

Funny story- my older child sure isn't choked or hesitant to speak up (thank heavens). Once when she was about 15, she was mowing the lawn and he came outside and started in on her. He was red in the face and yelling and shaking his finger. She stood there so calmly watching him, not getting hooked, then she said with an arched voice, "Don't yell at me like that. You need to calm down if you want to talk to me." I thought he was going to have a stroke. Is it wrong to laugh? Imagine if we had had that when we were kids! The times they are a changin....

That's a great story.
Yeah, we're not doing it to change him either, but rather to create a boundary. The issue is whether or not he'll respect it. If not, the boundary gets bigger.

THe boundary I created to protect my son from my bio-dad was to keep living our own lives over here where we are. I consider my stepdad my dad, and it's been fine that way. It is 100% guarantee my bio-dad would be verbally abusive.

For me. life is too short, and my family is too precious to be in an unsafe environment. No 'rules' to bio-dad. He wouldn't 'get it'.

I agree. And what a great thing, you've created a boundary you're comfortable with.

Listen up:
I came here to vent and process so I can handle this situation well, but to be honest I'm a little freaked out that this thread is going to turn into a misguided diatribe about how I need to protect my children, that I'm too blind to see the horrific damage my father does to my kids, and that I'm not keeping them safe.

Ya'll can trust that I'll do the right thing for my kids and myself. Thanks.

Blueblooms:
How did you do this? Was it something your family discussed in advance? Because my sisters and I have started doing very similar things to my dad, I've discovered this vacation, but we didn't discuss it in advance. We're all just better enough, I guess, to say NO.

That's why I came here to vent, because intervening doesn't work if I engage (ie fight) with him.

Hugs transformy

Even with a father like that, you are very honest, authentic, intuitive, compassionate, smart and funny. You are a remarkable woman, good mom, great professional.

You did not become like him.

No advice, I got no kids. But I hope Wednesday comes soon so you can continue your own life and relax, even for a moment :)

We can't change anyone - and we can create boundaries without telling them to anyone.

In therapy I did a visualization exercise - I imagined I talked to my dad, he was there and he was LISTENING and he was asking forgiveness and being the person I needed all my life. Then I hugged him, and I imagined him walking away, I had to say goodbye to him. This helped me accept who he really is and let go of the "ideal" he has not been, isn't and will never be.


More hugs, virtual Valiums, Bach flowers & lavender drops for relaxation being sent to you!!

Funny- we did it exactly as you and your sisters are doing it. We sure didn't plan it. I guess it started when he first said things to my kiddos that were not okay by my code. Even though it made my heart pound, it wasn't a fight because I did not care about him a fraction as much as I cared about my girls.

It took a few years for my dad, and even my mom really, to understand that these were my children, I was their mother, and I would do what was right for them. It wasn't debatable and I didn't care one whit about their opinion on it. There was no superior authority in my home than me. A couple of times I had to talk to them about that general idea and they took pesonal offense, although in my opinion, that was absolutely insane. Once they both stormed out of my home.

One thing that helped (me, eventually them) was to turn it around: what if I came into your home and analyzed you, criticized you, told you how to do things? Only a couple of years ago, my mom went on for about an hour about what I should do. I then said, "Okay, now let's talk about what I think you should do." She was furious, but then very sad. I think she was ashamed. We're okay.

Not what you asked, but I'll also note that this process of peacefully protecting my kids has been very awakening for me. I would do for my children what I had not done for myself- ever. That has made me sad and scared, but I'm working on it.

I think my kids were about your kids' age when this happened. It seems as though if it is going to happen at all, that's when it's going to happen- and you and I both did it at the same time.

The fact that you're asking the tough questions, trying to figure out the correct course of action, is great proof of this. Your kids are very lucky to have you, and your father doesn't know all the wonderful things he's missing out on.

In my case, my parents behave badly, especially my mother. I stopped speaking to her for many years, and now that I am back, she's decided to be on (mostly) good behavior to convince me not to disappear again. The whole relationship is fake, but I'd rather have a facade of a relationship with my mother and a good relationship with my two youngest brothers, than to never talk to any of them again.
(My mother must have radar, she started calling halfway through me typing this paragraph. This one goes to voicemail, I think this is an "I'm bored driving to work so I'll call you to pretend to talk to someone and then hang up unexpectedly as soon as I get there" call.)
My relationship with her is not perfect, but it's polite, and it's something, and that's more than I ever expected.

I hope that whatever course of action you decide upon elicits a response that you (and your children) are comfortable with, since ultimately, that's what really matters. And if he decides to stay miserable? That's his loss, not yours.



Blueblooms, I love that story. Hooray for your daughter! That's awesome. :)


And I was right about my mother's phone call. She didn't even leave a message this time, so she wasn't thinking of me, I was just the first person she called to occupy her time because she was bored. :whoop
I love voicemail, it's my filter. If the message she leaves interests me, I'll even call her back to talk about it some more. :)

Exactly. It is not about him at all. In a way, he is kind of irrelevant. Its about your kids and you and right and wrong, far more than any power-addicted individual who lacks respect for others. My dad had long believed that he was the most important person in the room. (and the smartest and the rightest and the everything-est)

Dang it StarCat- how'd you do that? My mom just called.... did you mother start this? hahahaha

Hugs!!! He reminds me of my ex-inlaws, who are in their 80s. And the only time I've seen them drink alcohol was at my wedding...

I can be understanding and have patience with a lot of behaviors, but that blaming and shaming kids for just being kids, it makes me think violent thoughts. (And of course, AXH who grew up with that treatment his entire life and hated it, treats his own children the same way... :( )

"you used up all your criticism with my sisters and I"
 

this is what I just told my father, who had launched into a monologue about how my middle son is headed down "the wrong path." Dad thinks he's a fat lazy slob.

No he's not, I told dad. He's actually slimming down compared to where he was at the beginning of swim club. And he's a normal teenager so watch how you judge him.

Oh? I can't criticize your children? He demanded.

"No, no you can'," I calmly informed him. "You used up all of your criticism with my sisters and I. If you want to be kind and helpful and loving, we can talk about your opinion of me and my children. Otherwise, no."

Ha ha.

I was only talking about our situation. My son would not be safe in that situation. Lots of people come here not knowing that the option I chose is even an option.

I understand. You must not have read my other posts, where I talked about going no contact (NC) with my dad for years at a time. NC is an option that I utilize when appropriate.

My comment was to circumvent what I've seen happen often-a thread cycles into hysteria, with folks who are triggered by the possibility of children being exposed to A behavior. Doesn't matter what the OP says, they still freak out. I understand triggers all right, but don't have the patience for it today.

I did see that you've done NC before.

I guess that's always an option to revisit for you when you're feeling off kilter.

I hope it gets better for you soon! :grouphug:

What happens next, are you going NC?

I am still NC with my father. I tend to believe more and more in the concept of "spiritual family". At these times I no longer have patience for toxic people anymore, regardless of who they are or "how our relationship should be like" . I am often tempted to drop one-liners like yours, especially as I shut up so many times before. Pendulum syndrome.

In the end that approach does me no good either. So, I prefer silence.
Just venting.

Tomorrow is Wednesday, YAY you made it :D

I have had no contact with my father since 1997. It was both of our choices really. He was never abusive in any way. We made attempts to fit into each others' lives many times and in the latter instances only for the benefit of the grand children. He could not foster a relationship with any of them or myself. It was awkwardly forced. The interest just was non-existent. The kids nor myself were able to identify or relate to a man who would give nothing of himself. It did not work. He has always been an emotionally distant man and I always very independent. We weren't able to bond with him either as there was nothing to base it on from when I was a child. There was NO bond. You had a base of verbal and emotional abuse transformyself, which is A bond and not one you would have chosen. Point is, I'm almost glad mine worked out the way it did. Was easiest on all parties involved. I suppose I've grieved his loss while still living. He will always be my Dad. We still love each other.

I avoid and eliminate from my life ALL people who terrify me and/or who are d*cks.

Well said L2L,

Stress-related accidents and health sequels that have lasted a year and will probably last more than that, have taught me there is stress in life, then there is stress that is entirely optional.

The toll (physical, mental and emotional wellbeing.. and precious time of my life) is too high.

I drove home 10 hours yesterday with the kids. They have such a different reaction to my dad, it's awesome. While I am triggered by his hostility, meaning I become enraged and terrified, they look at it more as an oddity, a bizarre acting out that has little to do with them. I think they dont' take it personally.

My son who was degraded for his long hair said it doesnt' matter what papa says to him because "papa always finds things to be mad about that don't make sense." Like water on the floor, or his hair.

When I tried to talk to him further, he said "Mom! You and Aunt D. both told Papa to not be disrespectful. I know it's not my fault!"

So now I"m doing what I need to do and looking at myself. It's hard to tell quite yet, but so far it looks like I have a different reaction than the rest of my family. No one else seems to have the severe emotional reaction that I do, they speak up right away and create a clear boundary with dad, and he respects it. It's not ideal, because they have to check him, but over the years, he's actually gotten, in many ways, better than he was when I went NC.

Anyways, my reaction, I think, may account for the different relationship they have with him. My goal is to not be emotionally triggered so I can make better choices.

This has been a real issue for me, all of my life, that dad doesn't treat the other sibs like he does me. Now I can see the obvious: we teach people how to treat us. And my way of dealing with him has always been to freak out badly. Rage, scream, ignore. Nothing healthy. My sisters and brother speak up right away and he stops and changes the way he deals with them. I freak out and go to the bathroom and cry and run to the internet and post how freaked out I am. Not exactly the healthiest way to deal with a bully.

In fact, the healthiest thing I did was go NC with him. But I still did it with a fair amount of insanity. Raging, roaring.

I'm just trying to sort it all out. I like the approach we used, which is to draw a boundary right away.

I do need to say that statements like this
for whatever reason, make me feel pretty bad about myself. Your intention may be different, but I've always felt this way about these type of flippant statements-that there must be something wrong with me or the OP who is trying to sort out better boundaries. To me it's the same as posting, "I went to graduate school and got a degree so I could support myself," when someone is struggling with a low paying job and no money. Same attitude.

I see it everywhere here-and it's increasingly more difficult for me to handle. It feels like a real slap to the OP, done without kindness or thoughtfulness when they're struggling. I mean, it's easy to look at that statement and say "whats' wrong with me? why don't I eliminate ALL people from my life who are dicks or terrify me? Why didn't I go to graduate school to get a better paying job?!?"

I feel these statements are made with the intimation that if the OP were further along in their recovery, they would also do something this essential, this simple. It also reads with an air of superiority, even if that's unintended.

I've received so many PM's from folks who never post, because of the dog-pile mentality of this place, thanking me for posting honestly, for standing up for myself. They know they'll be ridiculed if they post honestly, and dont' want to be targeted, even if it's done from a first person viewpoint.

Of course, we have endless discussions here about what is "mean" and what is simple truth speaking.

So, I'll take what I want and leave the rest.

Wow Transform, I know you're stressed out but really? You need to take that out on me? When I very rarely come on here anymore because I don't have a lot of spare time, but came to share an article I found that I thought might be helpful to someone, and when I did, saw that YOU had posted something, and took the time to read your post and reply BECAUSE I CARE ABOUT YOU, AND THEN, today during lunch I have come back here to check to see how you are doing, and this is how you react? I posted what I posted in order that, just in case it might be useful to you at this time, or perhaps some time down the road, it might help. It was ONE sentence and you chose to interpret it the way YOU think, NOT the way I think.

I have sent you lots of PMs over the years to try to get to know you a little better, I have shared my PHOTO with you, I have sent you funny emails to your ***** account, with NO RESPONSE from your end, and you accuse me of feeling or thinking I am superior to you and others on this forum? Then you attack what I have shared about myself and how I GOT OUT of the sickness of my childhood and half my adulthood so that I don't EVER have to live with another alcoholic or drug addict?

What else can I say other than, WOW, really? How much more does a person have to do to get you to accept what they have to offer?