Am I Being Unreasonable?
 

My job has been 100% for sure cut for next year. In my state there are NO jobs in my field and I have received an offer from my old school in MA (that I LOVED!) to return there to teach.

Doing this would mean having to move the whole family. Or would mean me leaving and just going with my girls.

"R"AH (who I am have not committed to not wanting to stay married to- at least today) has told me that the options he sees as realistic are the following:

1. I move to MA alone, the girls stay with him.
2. We all stay in our state. (what I do for work, what we do about paying bills- who knows- but this means he keeps his job and stays right where he wants to be)

He says he will not consider moving bc it is not "appealing" to him.

I didn't realize that making decisions about what is necessary for our family during a financial crisis should be based on "appeal". Then again I don't "get" 99.9% of how he thinks (even sober).

What I wanted to say in response to the "not appealing" remark from him was...."Ummmm, losing my job is not appealing to me. Having an A/BPD H is not appealing to me. Teaching the subject I teach is not appealing to me but I've done it for the past few yrs bc it's where there were jobs. Living in the town I grew up in bc we came here for a failed business venture of yours is not appealing...." (you get the idea).

My H seems to think that life is about what feels good for him and seems totally unwilling to make sacrifices.

I seem to think that life is about being an adult and doing things that are necessary whether it's what you WANT to do or whether it's "appealing" or not.

If I'm being unreasonable and missing something that I should be considering here (he seems to think that his wants should be the top priority) please do tell me! (seriously).

What I am getting from what he is and isn't saying is that he wants to stay here, he doesn't want to compromise anything (big shock there) and I should find a way to stay here with out a job and still somehow be able to come up with money to keep our house and life the way we live (which is NOT extravagant at all).

You lost me on that one. You're not committed to staying married? Or you're not committed to get divorced?

Either way, it seems the universe is handing you a big, fat, flashing neon sign. What will you choose to do with it?

L

No, you are not being unreasonable at all. In fact, if it were me, I would speak with an attorney and tell him that I have a job lined up in another state and want to move there and take the girls with me. Just see what he says. Since you and your husband are not divorced or even legally separated, I believe you have the right to take your children with you, so long as you aren't hiding from him. Ask legal counsel about that.

But, to answer your question, no, you are not being unreasonable and it's my opinion that you give him way too much input as it is. But, that's just me. :tongue:

Sorry- I am exhausted and not making sense I guess... I am not committed to getting divorced... I guess I am still hoping to stick it out (even if it's separately for a while)...

So... because of that, moving away knowing that he doesn't want to come kind of means I have to decide to be done and I don't think I am (ready to be done).

I'm just confused.

Yep. That's the sign I was talking about.............

Life decisions are hard enough when you are in a healthy relationship. Add in an A partner and making good decisions can be horrid. I think you need to try to have a conversation with him stating your opinions on it all. If you stay there how will the bills get paid? How does he see this working? Perhaps ask him to show you how it will work? Not sure if it will help but before you made a decision I personally think you need to try another discussion with him. It maybe a fork in the road of life for you. You may need to determine what is best for you, even if he does not find it appealing. I do not think you are being unreasonable. You seem to be logically thinking it out.

Good luck!

I guess I am asking his in-put bc I am not ready to divorce him. And obviously packing up, selling our house and me moving away is going to be a way to end our marriage.... So this just kind of makes things complicated I'm feeling like....

I've tried to bring these questions up and in true A fashion he doesn't want to deal with all the "stress". The whole not wanting to live life on life's terms... I get that early recovery (if he's even there) is really rough, but there's major life "stuff" that needs to be figured out and he's talking out of one side of his mouth saying he wants one thing but isn't actually willing or able to do what is necessary for that to happen... Ugh.

I don't want to make a rash decision but I won't let his waffling make me waffle. I guess I'll come up with questions we need to address and if he continues to choose to avoid (his m.o. to life) then I will decide alone.

Well, it sounds to me like you have to figure out what it is you really want. But, at the same time, you should be realistic. Do you really think that he is going to change? Are you willing to live with him exactly the way he is today? Why did you separate (sort of) from him in the first place? Has any of that changed?

Before you can make any kind of decisions about work, you first need to decide what it is you truly want.

That is a hard one. Just remember that it isn't always black and white.

Make a choice that is going to be in your best interest. Just do the next right thing. You don't always have to be able to predict what that is going to mean in 6 months. That was so hard for me. Do the next right thing today. Tomorrow I'll do the next 'next right thing.' based on the information I have at the time.

Could moving be 'the end'. It could be, you'd have to be prepared for that. You aren't divorced until a judge signs a paper though so moving is not the same as divorcing. If he is in recovery, and he gets further in recovery, and if you have not nailed the door shut on the marriage, it is possible that he would eventually follow you there or you could move back. It is so hard to just do the right thing for today and let tomorrow take care of itself but when I started doing that, I became 'unstuck'. A house is just a house. You can always get another house.

ETA: I would get a quick consult in with a lawyer.

I guess I do need to figure out what I want. You're right. I have no idea if he will change. I wish I had a magic ball that could tell me that! I think that I have spent a lot of time in recent weeks worrying about what he's doing and not doing and not really focussing on my recovery as much. So, perhaps I could live with him as he is if I detached and didn't let his issues dictate how I feel. Ever since learning my job was cut I've been a wreck emotionally and it's made it really hard to not want to hasten his recovery and wish that he were something other than he is. The more I've harped about how "un"recovered he is, the more he's behaved, well, "un"recovered. So, maybe I need to focus a lot more on me and stop worrying about him and see what happens...

As far as this: I'll explain why I left in a sec but I need to say something bc it is bothering me. I can't recall if it's you or others who continue to say "I can't recall if you are actually separated or not" but I'm feeling kind of frustrated bc what it sounds like is that I am being judged for not being separated as others would have me do it. If I am being too sensitive and reading too much into this I really am sorry.

We HAVE been separated for about 2 months. He has been here at the house most afternoons for an hour or so to see the kids at the suggestion of their therapist. He is staying here right now bc of my weakness last night and giving in to manipulation. Prior to that he stayed here with our kids alone while I was in the hospital during the past week.

I might not be separated in the way that you or others feel is right but I am doing the best I can and I know that. For all that I dislike his A behaviors, it hurts his kids for me to ban him from the house and there's no reason for me to do that (unless he is violent).

Why we separated: He made a million and one promises after a bad weekend long bender in Jan. He kept none of them. I made idle threats about how I couldn't take it but did nothing different. Then he made new promises and I came home one day, saw beer cans in the driveway and decided enough was enough and packed up and left. It wasn't one major event. It was me deciding I was not willing to live with him as he was anymore. Has anything changed? I'm not sure. I haven't really been around him except when the girls are awake so we haven't interacted a ton. He IS in an outpatient rehab program. He IS going to T. I am not asking him about AA, his sponsor, his interactions with his family and I am sticking up for myself a lot more than ever before which seems to stop him in his tracks at times.

There are a lot more variables to this possible move than I'd thought... Guess it's good I am posting and thinking this through...

If it were just me and AH this would be a no brainer. I'd go. But there are kids involved. They have roots here, family here, friends here. If I pack them up and we leave it's not going to be a "well we can come back in 6 months if need be". It's going to be starting in new schools, finding a new home and a long term, permanent move.

I want to be able to provide for my children and this job is the only offer on the table right now (I will be paid thru Aug so it's not dire that I take something this second). For security and feeling like one thing in my life is in control I want to just take this job. But I guess I need to think about all the pieces of the puzzle...

I appreciate everyone's responses-- you're helping me think through this in ways I hadn't yet...

Then I guess he'd have to make coming to you his priority.

:hug: I know it is a really hard decision. It is hard to figure out what is right considering all factors. Wishing you peace in your decision....and maybe an awesome job offer closer by to give you some more leeway.

Talk to a lawyer to see if taking the girls without him is even an option. It sounds like a great opportunity.

Thanks JDS. That does sound really similar.... and right now it's the girls and whether I feel okay pulling them away from what they know AND pulling them away from their dad that are really impacting my feelings...

I have sacrificed since we moved to NH- and we came here bc of my H (which is why I left my job I loved in the first place) and I feel like it's his turn to make some compromises/sacrifices.

I guess if he's unwilling to then I'll just decide what I want and if it means he stays behind, then so be it.

His selfishness is just overwhelming.

So, you mentioned that he is going to outpatient treatment and seeing a counselor. Are these his choices? Or, is this a requirement imposed on him by the courts?

Does he make enough money to pay the bills if you aren't working? I mean, if you choose to stay as he is suggesting, and you don't find another job, how will you make ends meet? If you leave, and he were to decide to come with you, what would he do for work....and would you be able to make it on your salary alone? Basically, who is the bigger breadwinner here?

FWIW, I don't think anyone is judging you for doing separation "wrong." Having said that, him being at the house every day, and now staying there is not really much separation. And, to me, the point of separating is to get away from the other person, their behaviors, their crazy-making, their influence over your life, long enough to have some peace and clarity. And it appears to me you aren't getting that. So, whether you consider yourself "technically" separated or not, you aren't getting the benefit of separation. This is not me judging you, just noticing how it doesn't really seem to be benefiting you. It's absolutely your call and totally up to you how you want to do this, but personally, I would like to see you get some peace and clarity from it. That's all.

The real reason I posted, however, is to note that you seem to be equating moving/accepting the position with divorce. They are not one and the same, although I do understand how one could lead to the other. But, try to remember, you are making a choice about the job, not about divorce. Maybe that will make it less complicated. HE seems to be the one making it about divorce. And, at least to me, that speaks volumes about him. I hope you don't let him manipulate you out of something good.

L

I have a cousin who was in very much the position you now find yourself. She stayed because her family didn't want to move. She's been unemployed for 27 months now, is on the verge of bankruptcy, the H is drugging and drinking as if things were perfectly normal, and she is feeling more (WAY MORE) stressed out than she was when she first lost her job. She had the opportunity to move to another state, be closer to her family, live rent-free on a 50 acre estate 10 miles from a nice city.... but she didn't. She stayed so that everyone else could live their lives as if there was nothing wrong. Well there's plenty wrong now! No money to move even if she wanted to. Upside down on the house way more than she was back then. Her youngest is in high school now. Car is in disrepair. NO jobs anywhere. 200 people line up for $8.50/hour at Home Depot and 1/2 of them have college degrees.

What's the saying? "Now the hen has come home to roost!"

In this economy *I* believe it is best to be very proactive.

We can't afford to live on either salary alone if we stay in our house. If the house is sold and I live in a cheap apt with the girls and he lives somewhere even cheaper or free then we can pay our bills. We both make the same give or take a few thousand $'s. If he comes to MA with me he has several job options that exist already (he grew up near there and has many connections). He wants to stay where we are bc he likes his job, his colleagues and the coaching he does.

I told him last night that if he wants to stay that's fine but I will be making a decision based on what is best for the girls and I, not just on my personal preference and I let him know that I found it very selfish that that's how he's making decisions but also said that his honesty was appreciated bc it helps me see things more clearly- and it does.

If you knew what it had been like before we were separated and what it is like now, you'd see that I am getting quite a lot out of this separation. And more importantly my kids are too. I'm not sure why anyone would think that banning my kids from seeing their father would be a good idea and as I've said a million times now, he comes by for dinner or to see the girls in the afternoon so as to SEE the girls bc the therapist the girls see who specializes in working with families that are separating/divorcing and/or dealing with addictions is the one who suggested this. As soon as his being around is toxic for anyone it will be re-evaluated. The only reason it has been less than peaceful for me is not bc he is physically present but bc I let his presence upset me. That's not his doing. That's mine.

If it were just me and we had no kids, I'd be NC. I don't have the right to punish my kids or my AH by not letting him see the girls just bc I think that might be "easier" for me. That's insane. I grew up with a mother who banned my father from the house out of spite and she to this day has no peace. I need to find a way to have peace whether he is around (to see the girls) or not and saying that the only way I can have peace is by not having him around (even just for an hour to see the girls) is putting the responsibility for my peace, on to him and that's no different than him blaming me for his drinking.

Thanks-- this is a good point and the clarity helps... I really appreciate it.

I also find myself in a similar position, sort of. My AH and I are not separated and I am not ready to make a decision about the marriage. At this point I've made it clear that I'm not happy with the way things are and cannot continue. He has not quit drinking. He still believes he can cut back. I see no change, and without some kind of active recovery, I can't commit to the marriage.

Anyway, we rent our house and just found out that our landlord intends to sell it. We *could* theoretically afford to buy the house, but if we did and ended up divorced, I could not afford it on my salary. I also couldn't afford to buy him out. I've said that I don't want to buy the house due to instability (he's considering a job in California, I have said I won't move the kids because they've changed schools twice in 3 years and have only just settled where they are).

He isn't listening to my perspective on this.

I really relate to your issue with the kids - I also would be gone from this relationship if they weren't part of the picture. It's challenging to try to figure out the next best step, when you're working to keep them safe and happy. It's also difficult (for me) to consider the best options when I'm not quite ready to put an end to the marriage.

I don't have any advice, just wanted to say good luck with your decision.

As I said, it's totally up to you how to handle things with him. But again, it seems you are equating one thing with another. Limiting his access to pushing your buttons does not have to equal banning him from the children. He can take them to a park, take them out to dinner, go for a walk with them, or whatever. Letting him spend time with his children doesn't mean you have to let him come over and walk all over you. And not wanting him in your face doesn't equal blaming him for your troubles. :)

L

Hi wanttobe,

I want to share some ESH, mostly experience:

I have been exactly where you are (except without the sign from God re: a job in another town. I am still waiting for that one.)

Any time people who had been through something similar to what I had said "trust me, you will feel differently when..." I was highly irritated. How dare anyone tell ME what I felt. I had mentally checked out of my marriage long ago. I am FAR more insightful than most people and I know that I am ready for the next step. I am totally in charge here.

And everyone who had been down the same road was patient with me and just kind of shook their heads...and they were right.

By the facts alone (a pending family violence charge, alcoholic huisband, 2 small children, job loss, financial stress), you are simply not equipped to just disregard his physical presence. It is NOT your responsibility to be calm when he's around. And your counselor told you at one point that your children's behavior showed regression when he was around. And every week there is a flare-up with your children around while he attacks you verbally.

You are doing EXTRAORDINARILY well under the circumstances, but your circumstances are dangerous to you and your children.

You will probably hate me now, but I hope you can understand that we have all been in eerily similar circumstances and we can see that while you are doing a great job, you are not all there in terms of clarity.

Please forgive my outspokenness.:c020:

I would think that if you have a written agreement with him, his consent to your move, you should be able to move out of state with the kids. That’s the law where I live. Must have written consent.

If moving is the only way you can provide for your kids, I don’t see any choice. If you stay where you are, it seems that you would now have to rely upon someone who has proven to be unreliable, regardless of the reasonn why he's been unreliable.

As already mentioned, there are lots of people living apart, even with kids, for economic reasons. And there have always been families that have done that. To me personally, this wouldn't really be about alcoholism or recovery, divorce or legal separation as much as about financial necessity. 35 years ago, my parents lived in different cities for 10+ years for that reason.

I have to agree with LaTeeDa here - I believe her point that moving to take a job that you LOVE is not declaring the marriage to be over, unless you decide to make that declaration (or he does). It is a statement of your need to provide for yourself and your kids. I think its honorable for you to be considering it, as that shows you know what is in the best interests of your family, regardless of him.

My ES&H: when I told my RAH I was buying my own home, he ranted and raved about this being grounds for divorce. I said that's fine. Divorce me. He swore, threatened (not physically), called me names (quitter being the main one) and said I was spitting on his attempts to provide for me. I said sorry you feel that way. Where are we today? He spent last night changing out hallway light fixtures at my new house while I painted. Why? Because he was QUACKING. And when I didn't buy into that and pressed on with my plans for what was best for me and my daughters, he didn't have any other choice but to accept it and find peace with being married and living separately or he could divorce me. Looks like today, he is going with the former. The latter is always an option if he so chooses, or if I choose.

Take what works and leave the rest.

And stay strong!
~T

WTBH...here are my few thoughts:

If you are being offered another teaching job at a place you taught before, then you must be an awesome teacher. I don't know what the situation is in the States, but here in Quebec, there are TONS of teachers and many many of them are terrible. They're just what we call "des bouches-trous" (literally: hole fillers), and they play the system, bumping one another out of contracts. It's sad because in the end, the students suffer for it.

When I saw that you'd been offered a job in another state, my gut instint was: oh wow, HP is really giving you a sign. It's a pat on the back AND a way out. A new beginning like that would be an opportunity to truly get some distance between you and your H, to finally be able to see things clearly and assess whether or not the marriage is truly worth saving. It's difficult for you to assess this while having him in your house regularly.

My next thought was: if she doesn't take it, she is going to resent the heck out of her H for years to come. As you mentioned, he could have employment opportunities where you'd potentially be moving, but he doesn't want to disturb his circumstances, because...it'll be uncomfortable *for him*. My XAH was exactly the same: the world revolved around him and him alone, everyone else be damned...because HE was suffering, oh my.

I found it impossible to live my life with such a selfish individual. Like you, my concern is about my duty to provide for my child. I don't like the job I do know, but it allows me to put money aside for DD's education, to pay for an awesome (expensive) daycare, and to buy her the necessities she needs. Ultimately, it will help me pay for closing costs on a duplex where we can live close to an elementary school, close to transportation and amenities, so I can give her the childhood she deserves. I see the same sense of duty in you, and it's just being confounded by your H's utter LACK of the same quality.

IMO, your attitude is correct: write him out of the equation and think about you and your girls. Again, JMHO, I believe the girls can and will adapt to a change of location; it can even become an adventure for your family. And as for your AH, this sort of distance may be what he needs to figure out his priorities in life. If he wants to see his children, then he can work with you to figure out a solution, whether it involves relocating himself or perhaps having the girls in a split custody situation where they would see him on holidays and during the summer (depending on their age and whether or not he is apt to care for them of course).

If you have some time to consider the offer on the table, then by all means, take every last minute of it. Sometimes just letting things simmer can lead to important revelations...

I do not trust him alone with the girls and the T told him that she did not either due to the fact that there is no telling when he might drink. She said this to his face the very first time we met with her before the girls joined us and needless to say he has not liked her since. But he has agreed to see them with me around. I suppose I could have my mom come over but he's a con man and I don't trust him. So, that's why I am around when he is. I wish it were black and white and simple but it isn't...

Return to Normal- Thanks for your post- It helps to know that the confusion isn't mine alone-- and others of you too who said you have been in similar situations...

I need to just think this all through and not make a knee jerk decision....

To AH's side I will say this. The job in MA is very near where his family lives and he has friends (heavy drinkers) who are still in the area and both these factors are part of what's unappealing to him. But then again, I moved to NH and have been near my family and left all my friends and I've survived. So, sympathy for how it would be "hard" for AH to deal with all this isn't a reason for the rest of us to suffer. But I know these are concerns. Maybe moving there would be good bc he'd either have to take recovery seriously or not and he'd sure have tons of opportunities to practice!

Another thought... I probably could find something here if I am willing to do anything- not necessarily something I love or even like. Since I left my job in MA I've worked in positions I have not loved at all but like NDBT I've dealt with that bc providing for my D's is all I've cared about and the jobs have been a means to an end (being able to provide for them and having time to spend with them bc my schedule has been good). So, a part of my wanting to move is bc not only is there a guaranteed job, but it's also something I'd love. But is that good enough reason to pull up roots, take the girls away from their friends and grandmother who they are used to seeing daily? Part of me thinks that if I really am putting their interests first then maybe I need to think about the value of their comfort with where they are now and consider the fact that maybe I should just find something/anything, even if I hate it, so that they can stay here.

I really really wish there were a clear cut best choice. There's lots of pro's and con's about going and staying-- I'm not a huge prayer but I think I'm going to find time to just "be" this weekend and give this all a lot of thought....

I really do appreciate everyone's advice - every last word of it-- truly!

Con man seems like a perfect description. Not only has he weasled a way to get back in the house daily, but now he's staying there. So, he gets to verbally abuse you, in front of the children, because you don't trust him alone with them, but can't see your way clear to limiting their time with him.

I'd say, he's got you exactly where he wants you, and it sounds perfectly miserable.

L