I've been living with my ABF for three years now, and I can say he is the complete opposite of my first husband who was abusive, and a complete friggen nutter. Thing is, my first husband was NOT an alcoholic, and he sounds exactly like the men described in this thread. In my humble opinion, the alcohol my contribute to abusive behavior, but an abuser is an abuser drunk or sober.

this IS who he is.....he is showing you on a daily basis EXACTLY who he is, he's advertising it loud and clear. i've yet to see a world class jerk magically transform into a nice guy. if you stopped putting so much energy into wishing and wanting for HIM to change, what ELSE could you do with all that free time?

Ohhh, Anvilhead....I remember your wise words when I was here quite regularly about 2 years ago. Crazy isn't it? That I am still hoping he will change. My therapist is trying to get to this point too. Why am I still here? What am I waiting for? My answer to her???? "For some reason I keep thinking that one day he will wake up and be the husband and father that we want him to be".

Crazy.......

WOW I leave for a therapy session and have some lunch and come back to all of this! Thank you!!!!

This topic was what we discussed in therapy today. Her words of advise and education to me was there must be something deep inside my AH (any A) that he needs to address in order for him to become healthy. Sometimes they are never able to be honest with themselves or their therapist on what is hurting them so much. We discussed how I am struggling with his lack of compassion and self centered behavior. How one minute he seems like a rational, calm person who understands where I am coming from and the next minute acting like a teenager with crazy accusations. She advised it was a mixture of his alcoholic behavior (which will come and go), the change in the dynamics of our relationship (I am focused on me now, and not being a codie) and how he wants to pull me back into the unhealthy dynamic because that is what is comfortable for him. She helped me to focus back on me. Set the boundary and know what to say and when to talk away from it.

BUT what I am struggling the most with right now this is the intimacy/sex stuff. I do not want to be his pacifier and I am tired of feeling used. Just like those who posted here, what I get is the "nice guy" when he wants sex and if he doesn't get it ,I get the teenager who is angry and spews self centeredness. The in between times I get a detached lump who pays little attention to me, that is on edge and usually grumpy. So now that I am understanding more and more of what being a A does to relationships, how I have been a codie and how that affects things, and I want to end the merry go round, how am I to know what is genuine love and what is more of the same crap? I guess time will tell. To me genuine love is patient and kind. Genuine love wants to hold your hand and hug you just for the sake of doing it. Genuine love does not want you to feel used and will work with you to ensure you don't feel that way. Can a person be an active A and show this type of genuine love? Can I develop the ability to know when it is the alcoholism talking and not be taken in by it? Who knows how this will all play out but for me I have to take the chance that by some miracle I can build some sort of relationship with my AH where I feeling good about me, where I will be able to see his genuine love, and detach from the rest.

SO spot on! The reason they do not chose the easy path is in your last sentence. Protecting their ability to drink comes first, even if it cost them tons of great sex and a loving relationship! Wonder if they even realize it? I bet if you asked any man (an A or not) if they would rather have great sex or booze they would ALL choose sex! The reality for an A is they are choosing the other! I bet the men who have great sex lives choose the easy path as stated above!

The thing is, you can never get inside someone elses head. So, you will never know for sure what's going on between his ears. You can only go by what you want and need in a relationship. If you aren't getting what you want or need, then you can ask for it. But, that doesn't automatically mean you will get it. If you don't get it, then you have to decide whether to change your requirements, or change the relationship. Because changing him to suit you is not an available option.

L

Oh this made me remember... me, lol, I did not pay attention to what many others were saying about who I chose to be with... and I certainly didn't find my own happiness.... and didn't take care of myself either... and now that I am starting to do that, yes it is easier than I thought and it IS the road to contentment.... and I am starting to put energy to my own career, health etc and its certainly a much better use!! but I was doing all that as an addict to suffering and because I was used to feeling abandoned and worthless. How much better way to feel like that than going out with an alkie??

Alone 22,

This lack of compassion issue is huge. Are they capable of showing compassion? It so messes with our codie psyche don't you think?
Like.. if maybe they would show us the proper compassion,respect, loveetc.
if we deserved it.
Well we do deserve it. And if they were capable of giving us anything that didn't directly or indirectly benefit them they would! (Just my opinion)
And it is not because of who we are, it is about who they are. And we do not need to fix ourselves (except in how we interact with them) they need to fix themselves!

My anger is up because I just came down with a whopper of a cold and cough..fever the whole nine. And do you think I ever even got so much as a glass of water brought to me? HELL NO.

I will finally be leaving soon, and am grateful in a way that his actions are as such, because while his words might be enough to confuse me here and there,
his actions will always bring me back to reality.

As for this sex issue.... I've been telling my AH for years that the only time he's nice to me is when he wants sex. So the way I handle it is when I want some... I go get it from him. He's treated me like an object for years, so I'm just modeling what I have learned. (probably not the healthiest idea, but it works for me right now.)

What I have come to understand is that I can not change him and I have stopped trying to. What I can change is my thoughts and actions and then to see how that changes the relationship we have. It may makes things better, it may not change things at all or it could make it worse. Up until this point I have not been as genuine as I could have been (due to being a codie) and that was not fair to either of us. Alcoholics need to face the consequences of their behavior and the way I acted did not allow him to face this in our relationship. To ease tension, to not have a major argument I would pacify him. I believed that it was part of being a "good" wife. There were times in there also where the sex was great and I did feel loved and not simply used. The reality is I think it made him feel as if things were better (for men they express love with sex, right). SO status quo continued. As his illness progressed he became more detached, more irritable and much more difficult to be around. It make it harder for me to pacify him, because I was feeling more used, and deeply hurt by how he was behaving. The good sex was less and less because to have good sex I needed to feel attached and loved. When and if I feel attached again, when I feel loved again, then I will have sex. I know this may never happen and I know I can not control or change him, but he can. If this change happens I think I will feel it in my gut. If it doesn't at least I will be a healthier me and can continue to make good choices of what I need in my life.

Very well said, Alone22. Your situation mirrors mine. It is my biggest problem right now. I know that if I pacify him, his anger towards me will lighten up. And with alot of sex, it would possibly even diminish. But....I would feel used and unappreciated if I did pacify him. As I have said in another post, he gauges the health of our marriage simply on how often we have sex. Period. Nothing else is factored in.

sillysquirrel I tried the lots of sex about a year ago. For a little while it seemed to work, but then I was smacked hard with the reality of it all. During all that sex I was never once kissed, never once just held without sex, and before long he was stomping on my feelings again. I think his illness was progressing rapidly during this time frame, so when we were not having sex it was as if I didn't really exist. I woke up to it all while on vacation. We were in a wonderful place, beautiful, somewhere you can leave your troubles behind. What I got while there.... a husband that walked 10 paces ahead of me at all times, who had few words and when I didn't act perfect jumped all over me and then punished me by withholding all affection ,while he gave good night kisses to "his girls" (our girls) and walked back into our room without even looking at me. Our son looked at me and said something like "what the hell". The next day I told him I was tired of being F'd and we needed to start counseling.

Don't think you can make his mood better in the long run with lots of sex... it only fogged up the issue for us and then made reality much more painful for me.

Oh, Alone22....I know it will not help the true underlying issues. My point is that to him, it would be a perfect marriage. He has his perfect family. We are all living together. To all friends and family looking in he is this great family man, (appearances are so very important to him). But in his self-centered mind, he has it made with a live-in nanny/maid/chef/wh*re, all of which he is getting for free!! How great is that?? And he also has me there to pay for half the bills!

Oh, Anvilhead - it is so good to have you back posting, again. I've missed your spicy writing.

CLMI