Does he feel regret?
 

Just trying to understand some stuff so I can move on and looking for some insight.

My alcoholic bf of almost a year broke up with me 5 weeks ago after I confronted him about a lie. This lie was in reference to an old girlfriend, who is still currently in the picture. I have never met her, never wanted too, but she has always been in the background. I have never liked her, especially what I know of her (she's extremely self-centered, manipulative and negative), and I know that he has gone out with her to dinner and invited her over for parties when I wasn't there. He knew how I felt, but instead of respecting that, just hid it from me. She gave him a present that was completely inappropriate and he lied to me about where it came from. When I found out about it, I sat him down to talk about it and tell him that he couldn't be lying to me. Relationships are based on trust, and this was only going to undermind our relationship. He felt bad, apologized but then told me "I don't know if I can do this" and we deteriorated from there.

During this breakup conversation, I found out that he also had become interested in someone else, and had been having a little flirtation with her at work over the few weeks leading up to his freakout. I found emails between them where she had invited him over for a little sleepover, but I happened to be over that night, so he declined with a "thanks for the offer, but I have company". This girl I find out later actually has a boyfriend in another state, and was asking him over after coming back from visiting him! My ex-bf had already made a date with her for the day after he was breaking up with me telling her he had had a hard week and needed some R&R. I was devistated.

Our relationship over the past year, to me, was just a wonderful, loving fun relationship. We got along beautifully and were always so affectionate and loving towards each other. He never made me feel like he didn't love me and that I wasn't the most important person in his world. Everyone told us we were such a great couple. He told me all the time, even right after the breakup conversation. I really did feel like it was real, but now I don't know what to think. We had been talking about moving in together, which he was all for, but then all of a sudden pulled the rug out from under me. This all happened about 3 weeks before I got blindsided with the breakup. He talked future talk with me all the time--where we'd live, what kind of house we have, etc. I thought we were building a life together.

His drinking was always a source of tension between us. I pretty much don't drink, and am really responsible, and he was drinking non-alcoholic beer when we started going out. It progressed over the months to where he was drinking 5-6 beers a day, and sometimes getting drunk when we went to dinner. He also liked to have keggers at the house, and he's middleaged!! I brought up his drinking a few times and tried to keep it real (I told him no drinking in the car, no drinking and driving, and that he was a functioning alcoholic). He'd honor my wishes, but I could tell he wasn't real happy about it. All his friends drink, or are screaming alcoholics. Getting a DUI or driving off the road is nothing to them. They think it's funny. The only way he could get out of this crowd would really be to move away. The area that he lives in is just known for the party, free style crowd.

The way he handled our breakup, that I never saw coming, was to be completely cold and dismissive to me like I never existed. When he first tried to break up with me, I left crying, and he went and got completely drunk and had an anxiety attack at work the next day. We got back together a few days later, talked about it, he told me I was his best friend and loved me dearly, but within 2 days, sent me packing while he was setting up this date with the new girl. The pain that he has caused me with this is incredible and left me feeling rather hollow and depressed. He doesn't seem to care about me at all anymore.

I truly felt he loved me, I know he really did, but I feel he couldn't take the mirror I was holding up to him and making him take responsibility for his actions. No one in his world makes him do this, and they actually all perpetuate it! I later learned that he also has HUGE financial debt (about $40,000 in credit cards, not to mention the cc debit he had before that he rolled over into his mortgage. He owes more on his house now that when he bought it 12 years ago!) He would of ruined me if we had moved in together, so I do have to be thankful for that.

So after all this, the main question that keeps haunting me is, does he have any regret about his actions towards me? Do alcoholics feel it when they really hurt someone they love, who truly loves them, when they lie, hide, cheat or deceive us? I've never been involved with someone before who had addiction problems (he also is a chronic pot smoker-- several times a day) and I have to say, it's awful painful to watch someone you love on such a destruction track. The emotional rollercoaster has been hard. I know I am better off without him, but the love we shared still hangs on me and the deception that he did is like a weight on my heart all the time.

Just trying to make some sense out of it so that I can stop punishing myself and move on....

And it also makes me realize that I am a co-dependent and need to work on my own issues...

Thanks for any thoughts...

Sweetie, you'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure everything out to your satisfaction. Moving on can be very hard, but we must realize that, for our own sanity, we have to accept that we will never know the answers to everything and sometimes, I think it's actually best if we don't know. Not everything in life makes sense and as hard as that is to accept, accept it we must. Be extra gentle with yourself right now. Do something for YOU that makes you happy. ((((HUGS))))

Pretend this list is from a stranger. And then the starnger says, "I truly felt he loved me." What would you say? Do the actions on this list speak of love?

I think you have been given a gift here and are ready to look in the mirror yourself and begin to understand why you would have someone treat you like this guy has.

I know first hand the devasting nature of a break up as I was recently divorced from an 18 year marriage, and I am sorry for your pain and sorrow. I have learned that it doesn't matter if my XAH feels remorse, what matters is that I am taking care of myself and not hinging my actions and choices on the behaviors of others.

i've wondered the same thing, bs08. i think they do have regets, but rather than facing them or trying to heal the relationship, they just go out and have some drinks. then they wake up feeling hungover and then they need a drink to feel better. and so on and so on and so on. then, they seem to replace us so quickly that it seems impossible that they ever truly cared.

i know it's not nice because i am sure to you, the relationship was real. they are master manipulators and all the talk of a future is to hook you in. believe me, i know.

i wouldn't drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the psychology of a crazy person.

suki is right, go gentle with yourself and be extra kind to yourself. the relationship was real to you and it will take time to heal.

naive

BS08,

I am sorry for your pain. I went through the same questions regarding the "Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde" syndrome. One day I was The Woman He Loved. Next week another girl was living with him (a drinker too of course), and he told me he did not give a damn about me or what I did. Wow.

The thing is that: this is what addicts do. Your ex is an addict. He has been one before you even knew him. His disease was never "controlled". You did not cause his issues, and you cannot cure him.

Most importantly, you should not cooperate on his addiction (going out drinking with him, cleaning up his messes, forgiving him for his stupid acts just to have them repeated all over again). I am really glad you stopped collaborating on an alcoholic's slow but certain ride towards death. I am sorry to put it this way.. but it is what it is.

Some day you will see this as a blessing, before you lost more time of your precious life, before you had money issues, before you had kids with him... I know these words do not help much, but it could have been much much worse....

During that painful stage of my life, I developed my faith in God (or any higher power of your understanding..) the pain was too big, and I will never be able to understand him.. he is an addict... I AM NOT. I face my issues and my pain as they are. He is not ready to do so yet - he is in denial.

What helped me too, is a group of AA... they are recovered alcoholics and they help me see how the disease works. I have talked to them about my ex and they all tell me, I almost left unscathed, as many of them hit their girlfriends, wives, kids, cheated, infected STDs, were involved in accidents, and they accept they gave hell to their families and parents... they feel regret and they made ammends and they have truly changed. All of them tell me I did the correct thing leaving him, and that their "active" years they only thought about drinks and about how to use people to get what they wanted.

For that the alcoholic has to accept his life is unamanageable. Until they take the first step, BS, their life will be a downward progression of lies, deceit and destruction.

What he felt or thought or lived.. only he knows... it is not important.

The only thing you can do is get out of the way and heal from all this. It is possible.. one baby step at a time.

Let us know how you are doing ((hugs))!!

Does he have regrets? Yes, more than likely! Are they big enough to make him change, and do right? Probably Not.

If he's actively drinking, and not working a program, NOTHING is more important than his alcohol availability. Nothing!

At this point, consider yourself lucky. You realized it early on, and not years into a commitment, with children, obligations, and a history together as a married couple.

I know it is painful. Time and distance will make it much better.

Been there and got the T-shirt, the battle scars and the therapist.

It's natural to wonder what you are wondering.. trick is not to. Not because you don't deserve the answers or the respect to be told the truth.. but because you will more than likely never have them or it. So the options are: you keep wondering and allow this person to remain living in your head rent free.. or.. you breathe a sigh of relief that you don't have to ride that particular emotional rollercoaster anymore. The choice is yours.. he doesn't have a say in it unless you let him.

It's also really important to remember that his actions are not a reflection on you. They are entirely his... even if you were the most difficut person on this planet in your relationship with him (and I'm not saying you were btw) none of what HE did is yours to own. That's his mess on his side of the street.

If it is any consolation.. what you have described is very similar to what I went through and what others have gone through. You are not alone. :ghug

My XABF said, in an email to me, "I made many serious mistakes and I regret them."

He didn't, however, actually tell me what those mistakes WERE and he didn't apologize, other than saying "I am sorry for your pain."

He also didn't want to work things out, try to be honest and open, try to fix what was broken. I don't know, since he wouldn't actually tell me, but my guess? It's just too heavy, too much work, not enough fun. And he might actually have to give me something, emotionally.

The scenario you describe seems to be very common for many of us. It is really painful. I don't know if it helps to know that you aren't alone. It helps me.

Hang in there--and while you're hanging, another good website:

Getting Past Your Past

This has some real no nonsense information on processing your breakup, what is useful and what is not, and also a bunch of posts from people in similar situations.

The deepest regret and remorse he may feel is when he cannot access alcohol.


As alcoholism progresses, we/us become but the caretakers and financiers, often leading us to financial ruin and most likely near nervous breakdown.


Don't try to figure out what and why he does it, he doesn't he even know.

steve, that is exactly where I found myself with my XABF. I was working full time while he stayed home for a long time. When he did start working (ie, when our savings were getting low) he would take days off to stay home and drink. what a miserable time!

Welcome, 08.
I'm so sorry you have been through so much pain. Your story is very familiar to those of us who have been with an addict.

Does he feel regret? I think much depends on who the addict is and where he is in his addiction. But the familiar story of many addicts is this:

As long as the addict is getting what he wants, as long as it is fun for him to be with a woman, as long as it's all about his appetite for pleasure being served, then he will indeed be warm, loving, fun, attentive and intoxicated with us. He will call you his angel, the woman of his dreams, his sun and moon, his destiny. He will pledge never to let you go.

The reality is: addicts are utterly and absolutely selfish. An addict does not care about you, will not sacrifice for you, and will not tolerate being made the least bit uncomfortable by your needs which might interfere with his pleasure agenda.

The moment you start laying mature relationship boundaries, he will cut you off--he will cut his feelings off--in a split second. AND NOT REGRET IT. Because his goal in life is all about being a predator.....which is why he soon finds another woman or picks up a new drug or moves to Hawaii or buys a pleasure boat.......because life has to be FUN for the guy or he is out of there.

This is typical behavior of addicts in early and middle addiction while they are still puffed up and grandiose and absolutely convinced that they should not have to put up with any of your sh**. My guess is yours might be one of these.

And then there are addicts who have reached the final stages of their addiction and the balloon has burst, they know they have failed in every part of their life, they know, now, they have destroyed their families, their wives, their children, and there is no more blame in them. There is only the sick acceptance that they have decimated every person who loved them, and all they have left now is the drug, which no longer gets them high, but which is still all they have left. These addicts pray that the drug will remove the profound feelings of REGRET which haunt them morning to night.

This is just my take on your question.

I just want to say again I'm sorry you have been so used and discarded.....you were not made by God for that. It is not love.

Bluejay

Hi,

First off, let me say I am very sorry you have to go through this. Whenever your feelings get deeply involved with someone and you get hurt, it's devastating.

I just wanted to address the part in your post I highlighted. There are plenty of men who aren't alcoholics who do the same thing, or worse. Some feel regret and some don't. They lie, cheat, or what have you, without being an alcoholic or having any another addiction. Your personality is ingrained in you and is always there.

I don't think him being an alcoholic made him keep his ex-gf in the picture while he was with you, (which by the way is totally unacceptable). And, I don't think him being an alcoholic made him make a date with this new girl right after he broke up with you. Drinking does influence behavior, but like I said someones personality is ALWAYS there, no matter what.

You said you might have some Co-dependent issues. I think I do also. Start learning more about yourself and then reevaluate the situation. I guarantee after some time passes, you will see things in a different light.

Addiction is often said to be a disease of denial, but it is also a disease of regret. When the addictive process has lasted long enough and penetrated deeply enough into the life and mind of the addict, the empty space left by the losses caused by progressive, destructive addiction is filled up with regrets, if-onlys and could-have-beens. In early addiction the addict tends to live in the future; in middle and late addiction he begins to dwell more and more in the past. And it is usually an unhappy, bitterly regretted past.

From:
Addiction, Lies and Relationships

When I start obsessing about how he never showed any regret or hurt, I make myself these questions:

- am I willing to make alcohol my personal God?
- am I willing to become an alcoholic myself?
- are parties and socializing trascendent for me at this point of my life?
- am I willing to destroy my body with alcohol and other kinds of abuse? (such as not eating all day because I was "resting" with AH ALL Sunday)

NO to all of the above!!

- do I want to be authentic to myself?
- do I want a healthy, youthful body and a long life?
- do I want to know and live love?

That is a YES, and love is nowhere around alcoholics. They mimic it spectacularly though.

Hi 08, I don't usually spend much time on this post, but was cruising and saw your thread. I think you got involved with a guy who was totally irresponsible, a real jerk, a self centered narcissist, and who also happens to be an alcoholic. He was 0 for four. But the first three have nothing to do with the fourth. Alcoholism is a disease, the others are extreme character defects. I suffer from the disease, but hope to God that I don't have the same characteristics as he does. It's apples and oranges. I think that you're incredibly lucky that you woke up and saw him as he really was. It doesn't make the pain go away, I know. That will take some time. But you're out of a really bad relationship and some day you'll look back and be thankful for that fact. He'll never change, but you will.

From Joe:
"He'll never change, but you will. "

I love that line. Thanks.

Thanks for all the insight folks! It really does help. When you're clouded by love, it's hard to truly accept the reality. And being Co-Dependent doesn't help! Grabbed a couple of books on it to learn about myself and grow from this experience, no matter how painful it is. I have to focus more on having great loving family and friends and all the good in my life rather than the negativity and life of misery I was heading for if I was still with him. As the pain subsides, I see more of how I was ruining my life by being with him. I hope he finds his way, but he doesn't want to. I have to own the property that is mine, not his. Especially since I have a fabulous FICO score (which I wouldn't of had with him...)!

Anyways, thanks for the wise words....

Romey,

We are like one big family here on the forum.

I remember the debit card statements. Multiple recurrent purchases in bars, bar/restaurants, liquor stores, often on the same evening, often incurring multiple overdraft charges.

When I set boundaries and stopped financing this she became arrogant and grandiose. She looked like a zombie even on the non drinking days.

In my case, the aw developed alcoholism a few years into the marriage. It hit her very hard and people that knew us were amazed and saddened to see her, as if the person before left the body and "something different" entered.
She lost her meaningful friends and replaced them with you know what; drunks, scammers, alcoholic and non alcoholic bar predators. Basically a world of people she had previously labeled as undesirable.

In the absence of chemical addiction, what you say is true, but unfortunately, alcoholism/drug addiction can and does corrupt and pervert even the most honorable, humble, kind, caring, responsible people.

True in some cases that the pre-alcoholism person may be irresponsible, self centered, a jerk, etc, but I have known many great people now in recovery, back to their senses and amazed in retrospect how they behaved and treated their loved ones while drinking/drugging.

And the pre-addiction jerks, A-holes, etc often are still jerks in recovery. Have met enough of them at open AA meetings.

A great balancing post, Steve. Thank you, too.

wow...this really spoke to me! there are so many people who post here that have such wise, incredible things to say. i find myself copying/pasting a lot of posts into a word document i've entitled "enlightening." it's a really great reference. i'm currently in the process of getting over a relationship - my XABF kicked me out of his house after i expressed my opinions on his drinking/drugging lifestyle, strung me along and then dumped me two days before he would be incommunicado in another country for work.

NO REGRET. i just can't believe how insensitive, unempathetic and self-centered he can be. our relationship was great when it was all fun and games...traveling, i was his "wings," he promised never to leave me, i was the most important person in his life.

fast-forward to when i moved in and the second night i was there he got drunk and passed out at his friend's house, despite my asking him not to get so drunk that we'd have to spend the night there, despite him saying "this sh*t isn't going to happen when you're up here." the co-dependent crazies got the best of me and i broke down crying, telling him i needed him to be there for me because i was going through a lot. his response? "i can't take all this emotional bullsh*t!" should have known then. but i ignored all the red flags, the warning signs. and here i am, kicked out and dumped by the alcoholic/weed addict.

BS08...you are not alone!

Somewhere deep inside their tortured psyche,....maybe.

My (soon to be) ABF tells me that I shouldn't feel the pain I'm feeling, that I should roll with the punches, that it's no big deal. He's been on a 2 week non stop binge that has created havoc in so many ways - ways that he cannot or will not see.

While I am practicing detachment from his drinking, there comes a point when all of the detaching in the world gets thrown out the window - in my case, seeing my dog chewing his tail and paws raw through all of this conflict, wagging his tail when ABF rolls in and slinking into the corner when ABF brushes him off.

It's one thing to do that to a person who can speak up, but to a helpless animal was my breaking point.

When he was semi-sober, I brought this up and he told me he loved the dog like he was his own-I told him that love and responsibility go hand in hand. Every single time when I get close to hitting home with him, he gets up and leaves because he can't or won't face the truth about what his drinking has done to me. Where does he go? A bar, where else? TO me, it's easier to drown your pain in whatever your drug of choice is than to face the truth.

It is awful and painful watching someone you love self destruct. The painful truth I am coming to grips with is that there isn't a darned thing you can do about it. As much as you feel anger, you want to shake some sense into them, it's their choice and you have to give them that choice, allow them the respect as a human being to live their life as they see fit.

According to my ABF,, there's no help available - I was supposed to give him options - I told him it was up to him. He's been though 2 rehabs and no aftercare-he can do it on his own. Does not like AA and laughs at my decision to go to Al-Anon.

This is where I am at right now. At the beginning of the week, during a drunken tirade. he asked for his rings back and he got them back from me. The next day, he apologised to me for what was said and expected me to continue on as if nothing crazy had happened. I've had a hard time dealing with that but between SR, a good friend who is going through a lot of the same turmoil with an AH and Al-Anon, I'm getting through it.

Remember the three C's:

You didn't cause his drinking.
You can't control his drinking
You can't cure his drinking.


I've lost track of the number of times I've read and reread "Co-Dependent No More". It helps, it comforts, it gives me strength.

Thanks queenie. For some reason, your post really helps me. I'm just hitting a real low tonight but it's nice to know I'm not the only one. I've reread the last email my exABF sent me where he seemed to honestly somewhat admit the problem:


" Obviously the weed and drink is a problem and always will be.
First time I've been called a sex addict, but probly pretty close to
the truth. I need to get the alcohol back in check, so i can continue
to be a professional ski patroller! It's always been easier to quit
drinking than quit the weed.

I'm going to get some free mental health counseling through *****
*****, and I'm looking forward to trying that. One of the topics for
my end of season review is the emotional rollercoaster I ride. I
thought I was doing better, but it seems to be an issue at work, and
something I need to work on, but will talk to counselers about it."

It reminds me that I'm the one that had to deal with the real problems he has, not his friends. They not intimate with him and trying to build a life with him based on trust and respect, so it's different for them.

I have to really remind myself really hard it's not me, it's not me, it's not me.....and the problems really are there....

It's not you, BS...

I was a mess yesterday night too so no worries, I am next to you there!!

On the topic of regret, I have been imagining what would happen if ex came TRULY SORRY and acknowledging the hurt.. what difference would it make? the hellish months would still be there and the harm has already been done.

It does not matter if he feels regret or not...

And we are better off without them. Honest.

Regrets....

I was having a discussion on this topic with my friend who is in AA just last night.

She had an intersting perspective.... In her humble opinion (her comments as best I can remember them)

"Feeling regrets and remorse for your actions is THE KEY indicator that someone is truly working the program and trying to heal themselves. The things addicts do to those around them, especially their families, are beyond comprehension. When I truly 'got it,' I literally went in front of my parents and got on my knees and begged them to give me another chance. As part of my ammends to them, I committed to showing through my ACTIONS, not my words, that I was a different person. When they said jump, I asked how high and then tried to jump 10 feet higher. I told them there was nothing I would not do to earn back their respect and trust. I meant it, and I showed it every day. I cleaned the house. I took out the trash. I cooked dinner. I washed the car. I did the laundry. I made breakfast. I openly admitted my mistakes. I apologized when I was wrong.

"It took almost a year before they even began to trust me again. I wished, hoped and prayed that the trust would come back sooner, but I realized that I had years of damage that I was trying to undo. I also realized that they would never fully trust me again. I had to be ok with that.

"It is impossilbe to do a true fearless and searching moral inventory of yourself, if you are an addict) and not come away from it feeling like the biggest piece of **** that ever walked the face of the earth. How could you look in the mirror and see how you lied, cheated, stole, manipulated, and so on, and feel no regret? If you feel no regret, then you would be willing to go do it again.

"It is also why the 5th step (admiting to another human being) and the 9th step (making amends) are so hard. You don't just have to look at yourself in the mirror. First you have to admit to someone all of the horrible things you have done and then you have to and admit them to the person you directly harmed.

"The biggest and most challenging part of making amends is the commitment to never do that again. If you don't feel regret, why would you say you are never going to do it again."

What she said to me rang very true. Until a person is truly in recovery, the question of feeling remorse or regret isn't really part of the equation.

HTH

And many never find recovery, they only use recovery as a weapon. Sadly.

Either they use recovery or the promise of recovery as a weapon. Even sadder.

Great thread!!

What I like of SR is that there are all these diff. paths and with every story I realize there is just no power against alcoholism.. people try everything--- and in the end its still the same story (for the majority)

Even if they stop drinking for a while..3rd rehab... lose family and KIDS, for God's sakes... (losing unique time while children are still babies, how can someone miss that..) relapses and dry drunks and more emptiness or progression... there is just no way to "fight it"--

I agree regrets come from a place of deep soul searching and if you are out there passed out its a little difficult to stop and listen and look back at your actions. That is why they say, in later stages of alcoholism they start looking at the past with regret.. I can imagine you see your friends married, your ex drinking buddies have diff interests... and they can no longer hide it as social drinking... and see they have invested in nothing and thrown the people that would have stayed with them, really cared, out of their lifes in exchange for buddies that do not give a damn about them...

It should be hard to look at the long list of losses and to start seeing the pattern... and how more than one person is afraid of you and want to stay as far away as you as possible... and you can quack and lie about why is that... but deep down you know exactly why..

I wish you all the best in your recovery :)

Hey BSO8 did you ever hear back from your ex? When I first read your post a few weeks ago I felt it was something I could have written myself. My xabf broke up with me about the same time your relationship ended. This site has been of tremendous help.

No, I don't exist anymore. He doesn't care how I am. He's with the woman he cheated on me with and seems to just be happy as a clam, at least on the surface. He's happy parading her around and returning to his partying life. I am constantly reminded, by what I hear and see and by friends, that I dodged a bullet. I have to constantly remind myself of that. He wasn't good for me, and anyone who thinks that I'm that disposable isn't really worth being in my life. I miss the man I thought I knew, the friend I thought I had, but I don't know who this addict person is. I don't expect to ever hear from his again. Problem is I know I will bump into him sometime when ski season hits. It's inevitable and I don't know quite how to deal with it. I never want to see him again.

And ya, this site has been invaluable. I don't know what I would of done without it and it's on my gratitude list every day.

Thanks for asking! I hope you're healing well from your breakup. It's never easy....

BS08...i'm so sorry to hear that your xabf has treated you so poorly. i know our situations are strikingly similar so i can definitely relate. perhaps it is better that you don't hear anything from him. i heard from mine - he called after he kicked me out of his house, strung me along then dumped me 2 days before he was going to be in mexico. he's back apparently, and it's been about three months since we've talked. i asked him why he was trying to get in touch with me and he says it's because he "cares" about me. it's just all so ridiculous. i don't think you would do things like that to someone you care about, do you?

YES!!! that's just how i feel - disposable. he's thrown me away like some piece of trash, and then he expects to be able to march back into my life? when we talked he sounded surprised that i seemed angry. i was trying to keep it together but i guess i didn't have the happiest of tones. as if i'm going to be happy and excited to hear from him after what he did????

ugh.