Reminder that sometmes they do get sober
 

L and I were in a grocery store tonight and I ran into a woman I haven't seen in a year...

She first came to Alanon because her bf was drinking...she didn't stay in Alanon...

She moved out of the house they were living in together but still dated him.

we lost touch...

Today she told me that he has been sober and working a good program in AA for 7 months now.

They are still dating.

S detached with love, took care of herself and her bf got sober...

that's good enough for me.

She did the right thing by getting on with her life. It sounds as if her calm, loving detachment really had an impact on the man in her life. It can happen. Other times it does not. Either way, we have to take care of ourselves, step out of the way, and let our Higher Power do the rest. Easy to say, tough to do.

I'm seeing signs in my AH that I recognize so very well as a return to "Insanity Land." Now I have to respect myself and calmly walk away. I honestly think he'll be in the same boat (trashed on weekend benders) within the next month or so. His choice. My choice to get off this ride. Sad? Yeah, but I've done all I can do, given him more than enough chances to straighten up, and now it's time for me to do a little straightening up on my side of the street. Somehow, I know this is all going to turn out okay. Gotta have faith.

I have the greatest respect and admiration for all those out there who are working their program and staying sober. For those who can't or won't make it, I just offer my prayers.

ive always had hope that it can and does happen. and she sure handled it the right way. shame it doesnt happen that way more often.

Thanks for this, Minx.

Actually, I think this happens more than we know. I always have to remind myself that SR is quite a self-selecting place. Me leaving R didn't get him sober, however one day when the Xth woman has left him, perhaps the penny might drop.

And a great reminder of looking after ourselves no matter what.

Was going to say something

but changed my mind

so I have to go back

and write over what I wrote

and I'll finish by saying

...yes, us drunks do get sober. Its not all so bad.

I get a reminder each night, I don't feel so much as though it's a reaction to my behaviour though. Although I have always felt we do influence each other and are far from powerless. I guess it's a case of pesky grey!

Five - I read what you wrote before you deleted it. It is important information and needs to be expressed, imho.

I was just saying that it is not "AA or death". Infact it is nowhere NEAR that. Its not just a downward spiral. It fluctuates, worsens, changes, and even self terminates. If you believe that your partner has to go to AA or is destined to die, or be a dry drunk, then your mistaken. As I understand it, around half get sober, some moderate, whilst the other half die of it. The guys on the street are part of alcoholisim, and the city worker who shrugs it off one day are part of alcoholisim. Infact, anyone who DRINKS is part of alcoholisim (studies show that alcoholics drink for the same reasons that normal people drink - to have a good time/relax/confidence bost, basically - perhaps that is why it can go on for years pretty much unnoticed).

So: of course they sober up.

I'm going to add to this that expectations of how D should achieve his goal of not drinking harmed me. I spent a great deal of wasted time using info like him not having face to face support to try and glance into a crystal ball. It was totally wasted energy, simply being supportive of real effort was enough, particularly the real effort that followed a lapse in his plans.

I truly hope the number of people on this forum that believe it's AA or die have very much dwindled over time - I certainly can't remember the last time I heard it said here.

Eq, when I was in AA, I was so thoroughly, so completlely indoctrinated that I found it IMPOSSIBLE to imagine a happy life without the twelve steps. Just not possible. A non option. And I still find it hard. I still find it very, very, very difficult to say to myslef: I can do this alone, and nothing horrific is going to happen.

But thats how it works. Keep giving up, keep surrendering to it. Because its the only way. I hope people didnt experience it that way and have become mroe openminded.

OR you become a dry drunk (A sinner, basically) who is:

"full up of defects"
"is selfish"
"self will run riot"
"warped desires"
"someone who plays god"
"who is irritable and discontent"
"who is sick, diseased"
"who is an emotional vampire"
"who is full up of pride"
"who is egotistical"
"who has a big ego"

Thats what you 'become' if you stop workign the program.

How many people have undergone careful clinical observation for them to arrive at the labelling of anyone who does not work the twelves steps as dry drunk? None. Its all in their minds.

I would just like to add that while some people do get sober and recover, its almost unheard of for anyone to get sober and recover on their own without the help of a program.
This is why its important for me to remember that its not intentions that matter its actions.

Never mind.

I actually began to see my mother in terms of a dry drunk.

How do you define 'a program'?

Sarah, hon, that really isn't true, that's what Five, Eq and I are trying to point out. Of course, it depends how you define "program"........

By program I meant, not on their own without some sort of recovery.

I was really referring to recovery, not sobriety.

said what I got to say.

Love the sig Elizabeth. Dont know if its a sign of intellegence, but it makes life a whole lot easier.

Thanks 5.
I think the sig line would read more to my belief system if it read maturity, instead of intellingence...

It is what it is I suppose.

Its a nack, I think. Comes with time and practice. I have not had severe anxiety or depression since I learnt it. What used ot last an hour, now lasts about five minutes.

Well, my husband and I are both recovering without a 'program.' And I don't think we are anywhere near so special that I would define as 'next to impossible.'

I believe people need to discover there is a different way to live. Whether they do that through AA, some other program, counseling, reading a book, or just waking up one day and having an epiphany. Once you learn that life can be different than it is, and you set about to change it, you are recovering. (At least by my definition.)

Programs and steps and counselors and sponsors are tools. Some people can build wonderful things with just a hammer and a screwdriver. Others need an entire shop of power tools just to make something little.

L

Sorry elizabeth, I'm even more confused and I do think tthis matters. You were refering to recovery not sobriety, which isn't possible without recovery?

I've got brain ache this pm - so I might be missing the point, just very confused....

Away from the question of programs and back to recovering from alcohol dependency and abuse - YES it does happen...

Here's an NIAAA news release from early last year:
2001-2002 Survey Finds that Many Recover from Alcoholism: Researchers Identify Factors Associated with Abstinent and Non-Abstinent Recover.

Full article: http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/...s/Recovery.htm

Five - I hear you - My Mother is 34 years in AA and I don't want what she has..there are many "sick" people there too..I have been in AA for 7 yrs...but I actually "work" the 12 steps in my life and am changing...Some people do the work and change...some people just don't drink..Does that make any sense to you??? I'm not meaning to argue your position...Just adding information you may not have....xo Hugs Janni

Hey guys!! (ok now I sound like a muppet!!) I did a little hunting round and found this:
STABILITY OF REMISSION FROM ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE WITHOUT FORMAL HELP from the Oxford Journal of Alcohol and Alcoholism. (abstract only)
I added the red!! Reference: http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...urcetype=HWCIT