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Originally Posted by fuguestate To me faith exists beyond reason
Originally Posted by Dan It's virtually impossible to discuss it without stepping on someone else's diary |
Originally Posted by BSPGirl I guess for me personally and that's just me...I just really have to find out WHY something works, it has to make some sense for this mind, like logical reasoning. Finally I was on the phone with my (now) sponsor. You have to understand, this guy works at the University, working on his doctorate, his wife is a PhD, smart folks -- he said to me "I don't know why it works, it just does..." The light bulb went on for me. I decided to take Nike's advice and "just do it..." I've been sober ever since... Ken |
Originally Posted by NoMoBeer That's what got me into trouble. Finally I was on the phone with my (now) sponsor. You have to understand, this guy works at the University, working on his doctorate, his wife is a PhD, smart folks -- he said to me "I don't know why it works, it just does..." The light bulb went on for me. I decided to take Nike's advice and "just do it..." I've been sober ever since... Ken |
Yup, to each his/her own... |
Originally Posted by NoMoBeer Finally I was on the phone with my (now) sponsor. You have to understand, this guy works at the University, working on his doctorate, his wife is a PhD, smart folks -- he said to me "I don't know why it works, it just does..." The light bulb went on for me. I decided to take Nike's advice and "just do it..." I've been sober ever since... For me it was like this - In the "real" world, I apply my intelligence, self will, discipline, and perseverance to succeed in education, business and so on. If I did not succeed at something, I just tried harder and, usually, eventually prevailed. Then my addiction and alcoholism hit me and when I tried to quit over and over again and failed, what did I do? Naturally, I tried harder. Well... the point of my story is that trying harder and trying to figure things out rationally and intellectually did not work. The point at which I stopped beating my head against that immutable brick wall was not when I had deciphered the correct rational thinking approach to my alcoholism, it was when I gave up, let go and surrendered. par·a·dox n. That which is apparently, though not actually, inconsistent with or opposed to the known facts in any case. |
Some things can't be understood by me at this particular moment in time. Some things will never be understood. Understanding is not always a requirement for action. But I must admit, I always try to understand the underlying issues, just the way I am wired, more of an analyst than anything else. :) |
Phinny: So well put.... I still have trouble doing what the Big Book tells me -- "we relax and take it easy..." When I try and figure it all out, I get into trouble... Maybe this thread can be salvaged! Good night all.. Ken |
A scientist is never certain. We all know that. We know that all our statements are approximate statements with different degrees of certainty; that when a statement is made, the question is not whether it is true or false but rather how likely it is to be true or false. “Does God exist?” “When put in the questional form, how likely is it?” It makes such a terrifying transformation of the religious point of view, and that is why the religious point of view is unscientific. We must discuss each question within the uncertainties that are allowed. And as evidence grows it increases the probability perhaps that some idea is right, or decreases it. But it never makes absolutely certain one way or the other. Now we have found that this is of paramount importance in order to progress. We absolutely must leave room for doubt or there is no progress and there is no learning. There is no learning without having to pose a question. And a question requires doubt. People search for certainty. But there is no certainty. People are terrified—how can you live and not know? It is not odd at all. You only think you know, as a matter of fact. And most of your actions are based on incomplete knowledge and you really don’t know what it is all about, or what the purpose of the world is, or know a great deal of other things. It is possible to live and not know. Richard P. Feynman The Pleasure of Finding Things Out |
Originally Posted by Peter Yeah, well I thought your"Osama Bin laden" comment was a bit extreme myself, |
Originally Posted by fuguestate There is no such thing as scientifically proven psychology. Information may be consistent with a theory, but it remains a theory, a hypothesis |
Originally Posted by Don S It is possible to live and not know. |
Originally Posted by Don S A scientist is never certain. We all know that. We know that all our statements are approximate statements with different degrees of certainty; that when a statement is made, the question is not whether it is true or false but rather how likely it is to be true or false. “Does God exist?” “When put in the questional form, how likely is it?” It makes such a terrifying transformation of the religious point of view, and that is why the religious point of view is unscientific. We must discuss each question within the uncertainties that are allowed. And as evidence grows it increases the probability perhaps that some idea is right, or decreases it. But it never makes absolutely certain one way or the other. Now we have found that this is of paramount importance in order to progress. We absolutely must leave room for doubt or there is no progress and there is no learning. There is no learning without having to pose a question. And a question requires doubt. People search for certainty. But there is no certainty. People are terrified—how can you live and not know? It is not odd at all. You only think you know, as a matter of fact. And most of your actions are based on incomplete knowledge and you really don’t know what it is all about, or what the purpose of the world is, or know a great deal of other things. It is possible to live and not know. Richard P. Feynman The Pleasure of Finding Things Out |
Originally Posted by fuguestate There is no such thing as scientifically proven psychology. Information may be consistent with a theory, but it remains a theory, a hypothesis |
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