I need some advise
 

Since I got clean, I learned to protect my sobriety even if it meant saying NO.

So everyone here knows my dad has severe tremors in his body that he refuses to treat. He says they don't bother him so it shouldn't bother anyone else.

It does bother me. It looks terribly uncomfortable and it looks exhausting. I have a 50/50 shot at inheriting it. However, it CAN be treated with medication, and it can be fixed for those who don't want to go the medication route with very minor brain surgery. Almost being done as an outpatient procedure nowadays. Still, he refuses treatment.

So fine. Whatever. I've made my feelings known, and I've told him I'm distancing myself from visits because I can't stand watching it anymore. He isn't holding it against me...he says he understands.

Friday is my birthday. I'm gonna be passing his house to go to dinner with my family. He wants me to stop by and help him change some light bulbs, etc...no biggie. I told him after that, I would give him a hug and thank him for the kind wishes, but I wasn't gonna hang around.

Why? It tears me up for days at a time-Everytime I have to see him. I hate it. An I feel really bad about feeling like that.

The s#it part about it is, I can't even relate any of this to my other family members because nobody has seen him for 8 plus years except my mother....an I can't stand her.

I've spent a large part of my life being "strong" for people. I drank like a fish and was like a rock to my friends and family. I'm not trying to say that I'm this all sacrificing unselfish character that has done and done for others at my own expense, but when I got clean I learned that if I was going to stay sober, I had to be like iron at times.

Whether people understood or not, if something threatened my sobriety, it had to go. That's it. So that's why I've thrown distance there. It's one of the very few things that really mess with me.

I don't give a s#it about many people. My dad is someone who shielded me from a lot of abuse when he could. I feel terrible for having to put up a wall there, but I won't watch him suffer.

I just don't know how not to feel bad about it.

thank for listening.

I dunno BD if it was me I'd try very hard to accept that sometimes people won't do what we want...even when there's clear reasons to do so.

People need the freedom to do what they want, even if we think it wrong.

God knows I used and abused that freedom long enough.

I just figure one day (pretty soon in the scheme of things) my dad won't be there at all and I want to see him, and my mum, as much as possible even tho they both drive me up the wall sometimes.

I'm probably coming at it from a completely different angle than you but thats my .02.

D

I've seen a fair share of people die in front of me in my life time. I've seen a few suffer horrific deaths. I've seen disease destroy a few.

I can honestly say this with no hesitation, I really wished I had not been there when they had been at their worst or been with them as they died.

In no way, was me getting to say goodbye to someone who was suffering or near death a therapeutic thing for me - at all.

I didn't want those memories and I don't want these with my father.
I know what it turns in to.

It's hard to explain this to people. When you watch someone take their last breaths, or suffer-these aren't the memories you want to remember.

I don't want to remember my father as this frail suffering old man who can't dress or feed himself anymore.

Any more than I wanted my daughter to watch me being hooked up to a bunch of machines to keep me alive when I was detoxing. I told my wife she was not allowed to visit, or see me ...even if I had died. I've been where she was....she shouldn't have those memories.

So, I dunno Dee...maybe I'm being an a$$hole...but I'm gonna be a sober a$$hole. Hanging around my old stomping grounds is just a recipe for disaster if I stay too long.

So...I guess I answered my own question. What matters more? A few more sad, pathetic memories I'll want to forget anyway or be like iron and pick me.

I pick me.

The hardest part of recovery is acceptance. That others have the right to do as they want no matter what we think. It's a good idea to ask what your motive is in avoiding him. Big hug!

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!

If he's willing to put his wife and those who love him through this BS, then why should I enable that??

That's true but I wonder if it's a double edged sword. I can choose to accept that this is the way the relationship has to be for my own mental health. Not that I have to be a part of watching his decline when there are things he can do to improve the quality of life.

Hey BD like I said - I'm likely coming from a different direction to yourself.
If I helped you make a decision, then so much the better.

Go gently man :)

D

thanks brother.

Look out for yourself. :hug:

I think you're 100% right. -thanks least.

This is a tough one. I have been around family members who are weak and suffering. So my last memory of them is their end of life situation which is not pretty. My dad in particular. He's been gone since 2006 and when he was in the hospital following his last stroke I visited regularly and took my children to see him. My brother did not visit much or take his children to visit their grandfather in the hospital. My nephews did not even visit one time because my brother did not want them to see him in such a condition. Now my dad has been gone since 2006. One brother has regrets regarding their decision. Can you guess which one?

If it's the one who kept his distance, that won't be me with the regret. I've said and made peace with my father already. Watching him wither away-for me-is a bit self destructive after sleeping on it and listening to what everyone else had to say. I can still talk with him on the phone. I'm just not gonna go insert myself into a situation that for me, is sticky at best.

thanks for the input.

Hmmm. I can only give you my perspective.

I just got back from care giving for my parents for 3 weeks. To say it was a brutal trip would be an understatement. And now I'm dealing with my very selfish, but totally amazing, 18 yr old. She's not 'bad' she's just being a kid.

I was just thinking this morning how selfish people are. I have 4 of the most selfish brothers in the world. My parents are a no brainer...I would do about anything to help them at the end of their lives. But my brothers just really **** me off. My kid makes me irritable too but she's doing normal stuff. I'm just tired of no one caring a small shlit about me. But ya know, that's on me. And I can't feel sorry for myself because self pity is a demon. Its all in how I respond.

I watched my husband die so I know how traumatic that can be. But what was the alternative? Not be there for him? Death is scary but it is something we all share and learning to deal with it in as healthy a way as possible is important, I believe. His death didn't happen to me. Watching my parents disintegrate is also brutal...actually harder than watching someone die. Because its slow and I feel afraid and powerless. But I know I would want my daughter to be there for me, if she could. If she couldn't I would accept that but that would be lonely.

I think we learn about 'the end' through our parents. We learn about the aging process and what it means to face our last days by caring for others. That's just my opinion. And all the fear of death? I get it, sort of, but it is simply one of the most natural parts of living. Not saying I'm excited about a long, painful, dementia ridden final decade...but, it is what it is.

We all have our own narrative and live our own journey. I invite you to write whatever narrative works for you and then accept it. That way you aren't wracked with self doubt or guilt.

Hey BD - this is tough and I really relate.

Here's a part from you that hits home with me:
"Whether people understood or not, if something threatened my sobriety, it had to go. That's it. So that's why I've thrown distance there. It's one of the very few things that really mess with me.
....
I just don't know how not to feel bad about it."

The dilemma is real. I am 100% with you on putting my recovery Before. Everything. Else. My husband knows it, my family knows it, heck my AA friends and my non-AA friends from my other recovery group knows it...because I get the privilege of having him, them, everything beautiful - and tough- in my life because it does.

Acceptance of other people? I wish I had the answer to being in that place all the time, not going back and forth. Am I a pleaser and a fixer? Yes, still. Do I know it's bad for me a lot of the time? Yes.

What I can say is to do your best to act with love. I don't think I will regret doing that, no matter what happens. Watching someone who sounds like your dad, essentially bent on living and likely dying wretchedly (for whatever reason someone does, including that group of hopeless cases as the BB describes them) sucks - and we can't do a single thing about it after we express the deep concern, and that love.

At this point in my recovery, I do my best to pick and choose, so to speak, interactions that are both OK for my emotional sobriety- AND that I can honestly say that I can handle, even if they are challenging. I hope all this makes sense.

Take care of you first - honestly- and act with love. My $0.02.

I'm sorry for the loss of your husband. I know it takes a lot to be there for those who need you there. You may be stronger than I am.

Having said that...I'm very opinionated about it. Would I want my wife and daughter there for me?

honestly? No.

If i got a fatal diagnosis, I'd probably write a letter and disappear to save anyone I loved the pain I suffered through when I was much younger. Maybe that makes me a bastard, but, and I can only speak for me...it would be the best way to go, i think...for everyone.

I respect and admire your ability to do the unselfish thing. I'm not built that way anymore.

thank you for relating that...that's almost exactly what I was thinking.
I really appreciate you. :You_Rock_

Glad it resonated BD, back and forth. Helpful to me too.

And Frick! Really glad you chimed in, especially about your daughter. My step daughter is 17 and I've been in the picture as the gf/fiance/now stepmom for 3 yrs. So that is a huge developmental period for her, not to mention the laundry list of stuff she has to deal with on top of the "norm." Remembering that she is a kid still, like you said, is something I try to keep at the forefront- and not letting my feelings get hurt/not holding onto it...a struggle sometimes but better for me if I categorize it that way (even the times I actually know she's meant to hurt me- which, in a happy way, have come out thru her initiative to go to therapy, and having her dad join her, and sharing)... ;)

BullDog.......you may want to look at the reason this bothers you so much, when you clearly love your father. Perhaps it triggers fear that you'll someday wind up the same way? When I have a very strong reaction to someone else typically fear is at play.

Of course I don't want to end up like him, but there are options. He chooses to do nothing.

In my mind, why the hell should I put myself through any of it when he chooses to close himself off to the possibility of any treatment?

I felt bad about it last night....I really don't anymore because of what I just wrote.

Think about it....why would I chose to "be there" and tear myself up and put myself through all the heartache when he refuses to do anything to help himself?

My investment requires great emotional sacrifice.....he just has to continue to be a coward. Wtf is my payoff? What's his stake in any of it.?

It's not like he's been working and working towards a solution and he gets nowhere...he gave up before he started. So why should I do anything because he obviously couldn't give 2 s#its what me or my mother's feelings are on it. Or how much of it is a struggle for her to have to watch.

If he was fighting for something, it would be a completely different conversation. Most of my "fear", I think, you're confusing for anger over his lack of will to help himself.

Maybe not fear - resentment? I totally get the "wtf is in this for me" feelings - I KNOW 100% if my mom was still an active alcoholic or even in a place that seemed dicey for relapse, etc, it would be resentment waiting to happen, probably take me right back to stuff from my childhood and teens (you mention early stuff around that).

yes...exactly. complete resentment is probably the most accurate word.

Maybe he's afraid too? Or maybe he thinks it's too late to do anything. Thing is BD - you have know way of knowing what goes on inside his head, and you are tearing yourself apart trying figure out/fix something you really have no control over whatsoever. And it's clearly affecting you in a major way - the pain and frustration is palpable in your posts.

One of my children is dead set against attempting to swallow any kind of pill. Even though though she knows it will help her and the doctor tells her the same thing. I'm not trying to equate your fathers illness with an ear infection of course, but i am trying to point out that there are lots and lots of reasons why people will do things ( or not ) that don't make any logical sense. We need to look no further than ourselves and all the selfish things we did with drinking alcohol to know that.

I guess my point is that there's usually 2 sides to these types of situations. And there is a very grey line between helping and enabling too. But i think one of the hardest things we have to learn is that there's a lot of things in life that are VERY uncomfortable to deal with - and that there are ways to still try and help without enabling. Not sure exactly what that might be - but it's pretty clear that you do love your father and would like to help him if you could. So maybe part of that might eventually be admitting/accepting that you might have to change your approach in some way.

That's fair...I just don't know what that is right now.

I've tried everything I can think of.

This wall I've put up isn't the first reaction, it's the last reaction.

I've tried to be there for him. I told him I'd get the best neurologist money could buy- if he would try.

I get he's scared. I know that. I feel bad for him.
I was scared of going to the hospital and to detox...but I did it anyway.
I was terrified that I was gonna get the "It's too late" news...but I hung in...and did it anyway.
Confronting one's mortality is humbling, and it also forces you to look at yourself in the mirror even if you can't stand the reflection....I did it anyway.

I do this for my family. You know what the failure rate is with this illness. It's almost 90%....I do it anyway.

The success rate with the surgery for my father is over 90% . He won't even entertain it.

To paraphrase the song "Hall of Fame" by Will.i.am.
" You could go the distance
You could run the mile
You could walk straight through hell with a smile...

I've done that.

An I would walk through hell with him...but I can't do this for him and I won't watch him give up

I think my anger is that he won't walk through hell for his family and I'm pissed about it.

I think keeping my distance is best. At least for now.

I believe I get where you are coming from. In my attempt to see the situation from your side, I remembered my last days (months, years) in active alcoholism. In that scenario, I was your father and you were my loved ones. I kept turning my back on treatment that could possibly save my life and causing my loved ones more pain by doing so, but I was scared, hopeless, and selfish all rolled into one.

Looking back at that, my heart goes out to you and I have no magic words to offer, only a pair of ears, a shoulder, an open heart .

thank you for the kind words.

You were obviously typing while I was putting together my reply. All I can say is "serenity prayer". Change what you can, and let go of outcomes.

Keeping your distance for a while is a perfectly acceptable option.

On the prior point - don't forget that he may have already "walked through hell" - in fact I think you mentioned that he did something of the sort for you over the years. It could be that he's afraid to do it again this time, or that he feels that he's too old and it won't matter anymore - or that he's too prideful to let others help, it could really be just about anything. Or it could even be that he's just in denial that it really is a problem - even though you can see it right in front of you he may literally not , just like i never saw my alcoholism destroying everything around me even though everyone else did.

But for your own sake re-read the bolded words above - re written below for emphasis

"My anger is is that he won't....." You could insert anything you want after "he won't" and it will be a problem only for you. Being angry about something you cannot control is of course something only you can change - and only the "being angry" part. As nez points out, sometimes the concept of the serenity prayer brings things back into focus.

Bulldog, you seem to have already made your mind up. Yet the thread title suggests you are looking for advice.

Visiting my mother often drives me insane and I think it's because I see something in her that I'm afraid of becoming. But I still visit because I love her and want to be there for her.

I understand not wanting to put yourself in a situation that endangers your sobriety but surely part of getting better is being able to cope with uncomfortable scenarios without drinking/drugging.

Please don't view my post as criticism. I just wanted to express my thoughts on a matter you opened up.

Hey bulldog.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ve seen family run the gamut with anticipatory grief. Avoidance, anger, overbearing obsession, chaotic emotion, you name it.

I know it hurts to see him. I just went through this.

There are neurological conditions that can’t be fixed. I know you know that.

Have you thought about why he won’t take the meds?
Do they have side effects he dislikes? He may not have discussed those with you, sometimes med side effects can be embarrassing or difficult.
Does he feel as though there’s no point? I could see myself refusing to take medication once I knew there was no hope for recovery from an illness. I would figure there wasn’t much point, especially if there are side effects.

My mom was driving me ******* in the last couple months before my dad died. I was avoiding her. She was avoiding me. She didn’t want to see me because she didn’t want my opinion. I still visited about once a week, but looking back with hindsight, I’d have moved in the second she told me he wasn’t able to walk. And let her get mad about it. So what...I’d just want the time with him. Even though he could barely hear me, and his once brilliant mind was spewing conspiracy theories, flights of fancy and total lack of logic. I’d have sat with him every day regardless. I screwed up. I do not forgive myself for that. My priorities did a 180 after he died.

You know I’m a tiger for protecting sobriety. In grief, just struggling with dark emotions, I have retreated completely. I enjoy my work and my daughters, but I have refused to interact with anyone else. It’s pretty severe, I’ve given in completely to utter introversion other than my work, which I have thrown myself into. I know it’s not healthy, but I’m protecting myself.

I get it. Just examine yourself closely. Make the right choice. The right choice is different for everyone, and grief manifests itself in ways that people cannot imagine. I see a son in emotional pain, feeling anger, but think about how that anger is directed.

Your dad needs love. If you can’t be there because it’s hurting too much? Maybe write him letters, by hand. Thank him for being the dad you needed. Your dad, if he is ill, has time on his hands. And written letters are a long lost art, an act of giving.

I couldn’t participate in planning my dad’s memorial. It’s saturday. I did very, very little, it made me incredibly nauseous to even think about the details. I tried to help for awhile, but my mom was fighting me on every detail so it just seemed like I couldn’t get anywhere with her, and I felt like vomiting every time I had to think of it (bricks in my stomach, just sick) so I gave up. I sent my daughter instead! My 22 year old daughter, who grandma would never give a hard time. My daughter stayed for awhile and helped her a ton.

Just giving examples of the way my sobriety manifests at times and how it’s resonating with your post, but the point is: Find ways to show your love, any way you can. Love is really the only thing that matters in life, especially at the end.

Fair points all the way around.

I will only accept this after I have exhausted every piece of information i can give him to help. An since he isn't listening to me anymore, I'm going straight to the only person that can penetrate that thick F54king skull of his. ..My mom.

Can't stand her, don't really like her...horribly abusive to me growing up, but i know she can make him listen to what info there is. That's all I want at this point.

I got several videos of the brain surgery my dad would need. Through the entire process and post surgical. If he says no, I want him to at least know what he's saying no to.

Life doesn't have to be this debilitating for him. I don't think he gets that. Maybe he does, but I'm going to try this one last time. I sent all the info to my mother and she said she would make sure he watched all of it. She wants him to get better too.

Thing is, this in not life threatening. Simple surgery can be life changing and he can get back to the things he loved to do. Other than the tremor, he's in perfect health. He's not even on any medication. Not bad for 80. My great Uncle lived to 99. He might still have a good stretch left.

I feel like if i don't do this, I'd be giving up completely on him. An Eric, you're right...I came into this thread saying "I feel guilty for doing this to -I'm simply walking away-to now ....lemme try one last thing. There's no quit in me and I got that from him. I just need to wake that back up.

An if he tells me to go F myself...well, so be it. At least I gave him all the information available.