That is so much.

I don't bow out easily. People probably wish I would. As for leaving anyone behind, I'm more the type that hangs around, tidying up after others have moved on.

Bless you silentrun for not abandoning this thread. Cow's neice needs what we know.

cou, I knew you would come through.

You know Cow, one of the biggest reasons I have been trying so hard to get sober is to give the big F.U. to addiction and all the pain and abuse that comes with it.

Generations and generations of pain.

Being born addicted, to losing my sister to it, to losing my father to it, to watching my mother slowly die as a result from a fall while drunk, well that's just about enough hints for me to declare. - THE MOTHER LOVING BUCK IS GOING TO STOP HERE. NOW.

Enough already.

.

To be clear, I don't blame you, Cow, if you don't or can't help your niece. I don't particularly blame my parents for anything they did or didn't do, or anyone else -- sometimes I wonder how some things could have happened the way they did, but I know everyone acts out their own part, and some parts aren't heroic in every scene. Or even, ever. I'm no hero.

I did spend about a decade of my life working a lot of long hours to alleviate a little bit the misery of a lot of seriously messed up, addicted, alcoholic, abused, violent, and depressed adolescents. This was during my active alcoholism. I know I'm not alone in that. I even took some of my kids to meetings. Apparently I was pretty good at the job, in my way. So it can be done.

AO, I like your attitude. Anger can be good.

Hey friends. :)

Heavy duty thread. I'm really moved by your experiences and how you see things right now. I feel for you guys.

You know, I'm thinking none of us are actually beyond understanding. And none of us are beyond truly helping others either. Myself, I think Cow has it right about her niece. It's sad of course how circumstances play out. There are always layers of complexities when such horrific backstories are in play. It's truly difficult to get off the carrousel.

Life for me is not about living so I don't die. There were times in my life I was suicidal enough that dying made too much sense. Despair and depression all the more jam up the works. Alcoholism doesn't really make it easier to deal with a miserable life, it just makes it easy to become and thereafter sink into a morass of delusion.

It may seem that just going thru the motions of helping whomever should be enough and I whole heartily disagree that when helping others faking whatever can still work wonders. I think we can fake out ourselves all we might want, pay the consequences, and whatever. Faking out others is a whole other dance, and I don't like the music.

Life is worth living not because dying sucks, but because living life as best we can with what we got is always worth the effort. Sure results vary. Sure things can go south. Doesn't matter really. Life is always worth the effort.

As you most of you know, I'm in hospital tonight. The took the biopsy of the lymph node in my neck. They'll test for cancer. And if they discover cancer, I'll fight even more to enjoy my life than I have already. :) And if no cancer is found, then that is alright too. Either way, I still win. We all gotta die sometime. As long as I go out being the best I can be even if I not great at being the best I can be, at least I'm trying my best to be authentic and smell the roses. Think Larry The Turtle.

Authenticity rocks.

Hey guys! Cheer up! Its not all jokes and doomsday gloom. Nothing wrong with being serious and happy too. Yeah?

:a122:

Knowing that you are unable to look after a child is an incredibly responsible statement and decision and not something that should be thrown at someone in addiction. As addicts, surely we all know what its like when someone throws expectations at us when we aren't in the right place to hear it? It only precipitates feelings of guilt.... Which is the last thing we need. Don't know you cow but I'm using right now and when we're in that, or at least when I'm in that, patience from other people is a rare and valuable commodity. In that place, pressure, at least for me, only highlights my lack of control and makes me feel like absolute shite. I'm with you. I also have a son and a daughter who I absolutely know should not be with or around me while I am using. Children need stability...you can offer understanding but I remember being ****** up and fifteen and I know being around using addicts only accelerated my own addictions and I was slamming base phet at that age because of the company.

I don't feel like I should post because I had a good childhood so I haven't experienced what some of you have in that regard. I just wanted to say I had a pretty traumatic event when I was 16. My godmother was there for me to talk or vent to whenever I felt like what I had to say would be too much for my parents to hear. I never lived with her but she has had a profound presence in my life. Never underestimate the effect you can have on someone just by being there for them. That I believe you can do Cow.

Well and lovingly said, Della. And we all don't have to come from Horror World to have meaningful experiences to share. Good for you Della, It's not how much we go thru, its about how we do get thru it that makes all the difference, yeah? :)

Nicely done, AO. I also stopped drinking to give a big F.U. to addiction and to my horrible parents. Wanted to stop the cycle of total dysfunction. I wanted to find happiness and calm.

Camp is a great idea Cow. I wish she'd take you up on it. My life changed at age 15 and 16 when I went on two separate camping trips out West as part of a high school class.

She could use some perspective, and the only way to get that is to get outside of the dysfunction for a while and look back in.

Thanks Becky. :)

You know it's strange. I feel like my entire life, truly, my life in its total and complete entirety, has been navigated vis a vis substance abuse. From cradle (or in my case, fetus) to grave.

The only way I could gain some sort of control of, of an out of control violent roller coaster, was to let go of the safety bar and get flung out of the car.

And, If I somehow manage to survive, I'll be the one, the sole survivor, who laid this bastard to rest once and for all.

Hey Cow, you wanna really tick off the old man ? Get sober.

Love u Cow.

PS - ((((Robby))). "Start by admitting, from cradle to tomb, it isn't that long a stay, life is a cabaret old chum, only a cabaret, old chum, and I love a Cabaret !" MWAH.

Cow, I'm not into this doom and gloom. My basic desire is to be just and do the best that I can (some might call it "cause no harm"). From what I have discerned on these threads, that is your desire, too.

Are you and the niece a comfort to each other?

None of us is perfect. I am not arrogant enough to think that my paltry actions are enough to **** somebody up irreparably.

I had five kids. I wasn't longing to have them; I just did it because it seemed like the kind of thing married people do, and I was curious: I didn't want to miss out on one of life's most imposing experiences.

I was undiagnosed mentally ill for a good part of most of my children's lives. Their dad and I hated each other. I isolated and drank. My relationship with my kids was not so much deep and emotional as it was light and conversational.

In other words, i was hardly the earth mother type.

Guess what? My kids are all adults now, and they are fine. We all get along great now, including me and my husband. My own ****ed-upness and selfishness was not sufficient to warp them.

I think you'd be fine and very healthy for your niece, regardless of your warts.

Roommates aren't always as stultifying as you'd think. It might turn out to be a very good thing.

Don't dismiss the possibility out-of-hand.