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Quote:

Originally Posted by gardendiva (Post 4740557)

dSober do you identify as atheist/agnostic?

That's a real good question diva. Been thinking about that a lot lately. I guess the short answer, today, is no. But I'm not religious either. I don't believe in creation and I don't believe in an after life. When you're dead, you're dead as far as I'm concerned... except in other people's hearts and minds... just like Jesus Christ is still alive today in that way. Does that help?

Very happy to have you back home Cow! I'm beginning to think that maybe, just maybe, we might be approaching more or less the same place after rereading your last post (inc. #174) and mine.

It is not just the "theists" and "hardcore aa people" who are getting off topic on this thread. It is also the "non-theists" who keep feeling the need to make arguments for or against the existence of God, and ridicule established religions. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Copernicus,

I like to think that my agnosticism/atheism/non-theism is a well-considered position and not just a reactive one against established religion.

By the same token, I like to think that my rational approach to stopping drinking was a well-considered position and not just a reactive one against established programs (like AA).

I raised my kids that way, trying to teach them about the world's religions so that they could take a considered approach to their own religious beliefs. I think I succeeded, and both of them are non-theists in much the same way that I am.

I prefer to feel strong in my own position rather than be "anti"-anything. Just going against a belief system, or program as the case may be, is not a strong enough position to live one's life by, or to sustain the well-considered position of sobriety.

I would like not to be included in whomever was referred to above, and I think that most of us here are respectful of others' belief systems and choices.

I understand that, and my point wasn't so much about the ridicule, but more so people making arguments for or against God's existence, and then being confused why people are responding with support for any belief systems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cow (Post 4715080)

I curious of you experiences. As atheist, I has experience lot of pressures both in rehab and AA. Is not outright dismissal, but is attitude of like, "Well, you just not seen light yet." or "You never gonna make it till you surrender to some higher powers." (Both of which I finds insulting.) I simple have no interest in higher power. My personal views is that universe is fantastic and wondrous enough all on it own and not need any gods or higher powers. I not think is any special meaning or purpose to human life, moreso than any other creature. (Is just our little extra glob of neocortex make us hella lot more narcissistic and complicated.) Lot of time I finds myself pushing back to defend my right to be atheist, cuz is not accepted. (I always say: atheist in the new gay.) Sometime it make me sad/frustrate cuz otherwise I very much like and respects those in recovery settings and only wish to also be respected in turn. I wonder how other deal with this. PS. SR Friends, I know this super sensitive topic and I not wishing to offend any believer of anything, so please no throw tomato at Cow, excepting if it organic heirloom tomato, cuz those is really very tasty, okay? :)

I used to feel very defensive about this I still don't want people telling me I must believe or I will get drunk. It is insulting.

Today, I can say unapologetically that I don't identify either way. My higher power is simply not me. That's it. End of story.

I used to enjoy getting into debates about this sort of thing. I realized for me it was more about needing to feel right and more right. I wanted everyone to know how right I was. I was the one being close minded and insulting others views.

P.S. I did not read through this entire thread so please don't think I'm calling anyone out.

P.S.S. I thought it might be best to just reply to the OP since it seemed to be getting off track.

Thanks for bringing us back on topic PD :)

D

Hmm... kinda quiet...
Time for a side question perhaps...
What is OP?

OP = original post (or original poster) of the thread.

Getting back to OP:

Welcome back Cow!

:a200:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FT (Post 4740756)

Perhaps this thread has just run its course.

There are a lot of interesting and insightful posts here already, so Cow what do you think?

Since Cow hasn't answered this yet, I'll jump in. I don't think so. In fact, I hope it never does. It seems to me this is a real important question for a lot of us, definitely me.

After reflecting on diva's question to me before, something Dee said and others' inputs, here and elsewhere, I think I'm refining my "God == conscience" theory a bit more.

I still like it but have to recognize my conscience is not perfect, no one's is. But that's ok. Nothing about me, or any one else, is perfect either. My conscience tells me that I should make it more perfect, every day, but realize I, and it, will never get there.

Hmm... Rereading this before I clicked submit, I changed the word "position", above, to "theory". Hmm... theory... theology... coincidence?

That feels better.

:c031:

Oh yeah... impact on my recovery? Satisfactorily resolving this question in my mind IS my recovery. It's enabling me to do and live the steps.