There is some 'psychological speak' that infiltrates the into the AA meeting rooms. Most of this 'speak' is counter-wise to the AA 12 Step program. I think trying to discern what the program of AA is or not by only attending meetings will cause much confusion. Best to read the book.

LOL :) That's okay, more than a few threads go that way.

I'm happy you were able to connect to an AA member that helped you in AA. Service to others is golden standard. As for the atheist hatter, yea they say some funky stuff. I'm surprised this individual didn't add we (I'm atheist) ;) 'eat babies too'...LOL

P.S. Lohan you have to read this: A.A. is NOT a selfish program. I get a big grin on my face every time I reed it. Check out these sites too:

It never ceases to amaze me how people who do not use AA seek to interpret it for others (even those who do!). Contrary to what was stated, there is nothing wrong with the discussion of any aspect of AA IMO. Keeping an open mind sure does help though.

The effective use of AA does NOT require “contradictions in AA be ignored and denied as a matter of faith”. This is absurd. A good case in point would be the OP himself who states
Yet the OP brought up this topic. This OBVIOUS example from WITHIN THIS VERY THREAD was ignored.

There are lots of sayings that some people within AA have found helpful. They sometimes contradict other sayings that others have found to be helpful. No big deal. Often the phrases refer to much more complex ideas (that have condensed to these short phrases). In the end they are nothing more than often repeated sayings. They are not the AA program.

i must be quite confused on what a real drink problem is. can you elaborate on what a real drink problem is?

We are human. AA is not God. If I can not spill coffee on someone I feel pretty good.

There are bound to be contradictions in AA simply on the basis that it is so huge, and actually not dogmatic... the members kind of make it their own don't they? And people are kinda fallible. It also is a good thing about it because it allows room for interpretation. I'm betting my reading of the Big Book is totally different from someone else's, especially because I'm an atheist too.

Zencat, your links should be made a sticky somewhere! :) x

Your first Old Timer was talking about the 180 degree change that we make
of ourselves by working the steps of AA.

The second Old Timer was using a saying that has been heard in AA now since
about 1978.

No MAJOR CHANGES the first year. As in, no getting out of a relationship unless
it is jeopardizing one's sobriety. No getting into a new relationship until one has
completed their steps. No changing jobs, unless again it is a negative to one's
sobriety. No moving from current residence, unless again it is a negative to
one's sobriety. etc

Those are not contradictions. However, there are some, as in 'you have to give
it away in order to keep it.' That and some others can be very mind boggling to
someone in early recovery. However, as that 'fog' starts to lift, and the mind
no longer feels like mush, a lot of those contradictions do start to make sense as
we see that by sharing with others and especially someone that has just arrived,
the feelings we get are helpful to our own recovery.

Make a Big Plan, you sure do have some misconceptions going about AA.

Go to meetings forever? Nope. I have many friends with close to the amount of
time I have some a bit more and some a bit less. None of us attend meetings on
a regular basis and have not for a long time. Why? Because we all were taught
that first we worked the 12 steps, then we learned how to LIVE the 12 steps on a
daily basis OUT THERE not in the rooms. That is what the program of AA is all
about, to get the alcoholic back out into the mainstream of life.

There is another answer that many hear from their sponsors when they ask how
long do I have to go to meetings? The Answer:

"You have to go to meetings until you want to go to meetings, then you don't have
to go to meetings anymore."

Now usually by the time one reaches that point of 'wanting' to go to meetings, they
are living the 12 steps in their lives and are finding balance in their lives and find
that they can go to a meeting when they 'want' to and the other nights use to fulfill
family obligations and other obligations in their lives.

"One Day At a Time" is for the newly sober, when sometimes it is One Minute At
a Time or Five minutes at a time. As one works the steps and then lives the steps
it becomes concentrating on TODAY. Just for today. I take care of yesterday by
doing a 10th step at bedtime. And if I am worrying about Tomorrow, then I am
going to miss out on some pretty amazing things that may happen Today. So I
concentrate on today to be the BEST me I can be TODAY.

If AA is not for you that is fine, I am sure there are some other methods there
that will work. There are some really good I'll say programs, for want of a better
descriptive word, that also work. But there is no need to put AA down, just find
something that does work for you.

As to (((((Zube))))). Thank you for starting this thread. It gives those of us in
AA a chance to laugh at ourselves and it can show others who have not tried AA
that we are a fun lot and can laugh about our recovery, roflmao

My sponsor's hubby Hugh used to say how azz backwards we alkies are. He
would point to himself first and mention how there was a big tire sale and he went
out and bought 4 tires because it was such a good deal and then had to go buy
a car to fit the tires, lmao He also would ask:

"Have you ever notice when a person is celebrating an Anniversary/Birthday at
a meeting and there are a fair number of candles on the cake that invariably the
person lighting the candles would light the outside ones first and then burn the
chit out of their hand trying to light the ones in the middle?"

And you watch it is true, lol We alkies seem to be very good at 'putting the cart
before the horse. roflmao

So a thread like you started Zube is a great for giving me and I am sure others
some pretty good chuckles.

THANK YOU.

Love and hugs,

Laurie-

Thank you for sharing an alkie sense of humor. "We are not a glum lot"...

Zube

I agree with Hypochondriac. Any book is subject to interpretation, incuding the Big Book. That's one reason Big Book meetings are held some times/places, to discuss it; discuss different interpretations. The main reason, of course, is to stay sober.

Same thing with the Bible. There are lots of Bible study groups for the same reason.

I'm also along with Hypochondraic on religeon; I'm agnostic. Fortunately, the founders of A.A. considered us too with chapter 4 and the phrase: "a Power greater than ourselves".

Of course there are plenty of contradictions. Some are using the spirit of the fellowship and others are using the fellowship of the Spirit.

"If it makes sense - It ain't spiritual!"

LOL, can't go wrong with that one.

What you heard was one member saying something that contradicted what another said. That's not a contradiction of "the program" nor the Big Book. Just one person cantradicting another.

Awesome, you nailed it, for me anyway, and I am using AA as a program of recovery!!

I try not to read too much into everything I hear in AA. I know the 12 steps and have ongoing experiences in them and it's working for me. Everything else in the book and in the fellowship supports them, or not...

:)

After discussions with Carol, some posts have been removed here under this rule:
Please respect the rights of others to hold beliefs and perspectives, which differ from yours.

Our Sober Recovery Forum members are of many nationalities, ages, and cultures and recovery beliefs.

Healthy, vigorous debate will further our goals, but only when guided by the tolerance that springs from mutual embrace of mission.

D

Thanks Dee74 and CarolD. I have no clue which posts you're referring and don't care. It's good to know you're watching out for everyone's interests though.

My favorite early on was in this one clubhouse when you'd hear a lot of people saying, 'don't thin, don't drink, and go to meetings'. All the while I'd be looking at a poster on the wall saying "Think, Think, Think".

There are no contradictions in The Twelve Steps. Just because someone is an old timer doesn't necessarily make them right. we all don't take the exact same path on our journey

Lol. This isn't necessarily a contradiction, the first statement is entirely true. The second is a suggestion. :)

that got me,too. then i'd hear, " dont go into your own head without adult supervision.":gaah:react

Don't they turn that poster upside down? They do at my group, LOL...

The program as described in the literature is very different than the practice IRL I found. The two are often completely at odds. For example, the literature says that we should be able to call on other members for help staying sober, but if you do this it is called living in the problem. There is also the idea that helping others stay sober can help us stay sober ourselves. However those who need the most help are in early recovery and do not have much contact with those experierienced folk most able to help them.

I really like the AA of the Big Book. I only wish I had been able to find a group that was like it.

seek out the fellowship you crave. it is there. you are in a good location and i know there are many meetings there that are structured around the program.