Contradictions within AA?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 706
Contradictions within AA?
Let me begin by stating that AA saved my life. Still does.
However, I cannot help but notice many contraditions within AA.
Just heard a glaring one at a first-step meeting last night. One oldtimer in the room suggested to the newcomer that the first thing he needs to do is to "change everything about himself", and another oldtimer a few chairs down suggested "don't make any major life changes in your first year of sobriety".
HUH!?
Anybody else notice contradictions within AA?
Thanks for sharing,
Zube
However, I cannot help but notice many contraditions within AA.
Just heard a glaring one at a first-step meeting last night. One oldtimer in the room suggested to the newcomer that the first thing he needs to do is to "change everything about himself", and another oldtimer a few chairs down suggested "don't make any major life changes in your first year of sobriety".
HUH!?
Anybody else notice contradictions within AA?
Thanks for sharing,
Zube
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Kansas
Posts: 175
"One oldtimer in the room suggested to the newcomer that the first thing he needs to do is to "change everything about himself", and another oldtimer a few chairs down suggested "don't make any major life changes in your first year of sobriety". HUH!? Anybody else notice contradictions within AA?"
Had to smile when I read this. Yes, I have heard what seems to be contradictions from oldtimers. I had one who said "keep coming back", and then turned around and said "you can't keep straddling the fence."
It was like he was saying "**** or get off the pot". At first I felt a bit on the defensive side, but, you know what? He made me think.
These old timers (I love dearly). I have to remind myself (now that I'm getting older, age wise), that they come from a different generation then myself and that these guys are also VETS. They say it like it is...and can sometimes be hard core. They mince no words.
But, invariably they are right, they just don't always say things in a manner that are always kosher
.
In the case with your oldtimers. They are both right. We do have to make major lifestyle changes...but it is not as if we can snap our fingers and be done with it...It's a gradual process made through working the steps.
Waiting a year to make major life changes is also good advice....(like moving, selling our homes, getting a divorce, joining the peace corp, etc.... Being sober just 7 weeks, I recognize I have a lot to learn...And the only way I can make those changes is by learning...for me that's gonna take some time.
Thankfully time is one thing I've got.
For myself, I have to try to remember that each generation has their own ways of communicating, sometimes we misunderstand one another...but the more we get to know the other the more we understand their views and idea's.
Regardless, their years of sobriety give's us proof, that AA worked for them.
Thanks for letting me share!
Had to smile when I read this. Yes, I have heard what seems to be contradictions from oldtimers. I had one who said "keep coming back", and then turned around and said "you can't keep straddling the fence."
It was like he was saying "**** or get off the pot". At first I felt a bit on the defensive side, but, you know what? He made me think.
These old timers (I love dearly). I have to remind myself (now that I'm getting older, age wise), that they come from a different generation then myself and that these guys are also VETS. They say it like it is...and can sometimes be hard core. They mince no words.
But, invariably they are right, they just don't always say things in a manner that are always kosher
.In the case with your oldtimers. They are both right. We do have to make major lifestyle changes...but it is not as if we can snap our fingers and be done with it...It's a gradual process made through working the steps.
Waiting a year to make major life changes is also good advice....(like moving, selling our homes, getting a divorce, joining the peace corp,
etc.... Being sober just 7 weeks, I recognize I have a lot to learn...And the only way I can make those changes is by learning...for me that's gonna take some time.Thankfully time is one thing I've got.
For myself, I have to try to remember that each generation has their own ways of communicating, sometimes we misunderstand one another...but the more we get to know the other the more we understand their views and idea's.
Regardless, their years of sobriety give's us proof, that AA worked for them.
Thanks for letting me share!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
yes, i have heard contradictions from members.
i believe the change everythign about me is internally, like my thinking. the no major life changes is externally, like relationships, relocation, or changing a job.
i believe the change everythign about me is internally, like my thinking. the no major life changes is externally, like relationships, relocation, or changing a job.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
When I attended AA back in 1991 the first question I asked my sponsor was why I was being asked to make amends for things I was just told I was powerless over. I always saw a bit of contradiction in that although I know it can be explained away.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9
Maybe a bit off topic, but an old gentleman that first welcomed me into my clubhouse was an outspoken atheist. I'm agnostic, so it helped me to keep coming back knowing I could still work the program. When he passed away earlier this year another oldtimer stood up in one of our large meetings and declared he couldn't have been atheist because he sponsored people in the program, and atheists do not know how to love anyone.
WOW! I was floored. Glad I had a turn to speak that day. He would have been so livid. The biggest contradictions in AA revolve around religion. I do not need a god to be sober. AA says in every meeting it is not governed by any organization or religion. I live in Oklahoma so that means except for "Jesus". I still keep coming back. It's a selfish program. Keep that in mind. It's about your sobriety.
Keep coming back. It's cheaper than crack.
WOW! I was floored. Glad I had a turn to speak that day. He would have been so livid. The biggest contradictions in AA revolve around religion. I do not need a god to be sober. AA says in every meeting it is not governed by any organization or religion. I live in Oklahoma so that means except for "Jesus". I still keep coming back. It's a selfish program. Keep that in mind. It's about your sobriety.
Keep coming back. It's cheaper than crack.
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Of course there are contradictions within the program of AA; the literature is rife with them. Some of the most interesting are in the 12 & 12, with my personal favorite being "Alcoholics Anonymous does not demand that you believe anything" (p. 26) followed on p. 30 by "we saw that we had to reconsider [our beliefs] or die."
And of course there are myriad additional contradictions among the group's folk wisdom, as others have noted.
But okay, here's the key: We, as people who have decided to quit an addiction, have a choice. AA is one only one choice. If the contradictions within AA are sufficiently bothersome to anyone, there are other options. No one has to force themselves into an ill-fitting suit in order to get sober.
And of course there are myriad additional contradictions among the group's folk wisdom, as others have noted.
But okay, here's the key: We, as people who have decided to quit an addiction, have a choice. AA is one only one choice. If the contradictions within AA are sufficiently bothersome to anyone, there are other options. No one has to force themselves into an ill-fitting suit in order to get sober.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Kansas
Posts: 175
Wow! I kind of get an idea of where religion got so diverse.
Are we working with each other or against? Aren't we all trying to reach the same goal!? That being sober? Why attack another's belief? There isn't one of us who couldn't find a a reason to to find Fault in another program. We are all unique in our own way, doesn't it make sense that there are different avenues we can take to help our own individual needs? Come on! We all need to work together...encouraging those suffering to find what's best for them, not what we thinks best for them. Present the options ...let them decide... If someone tells me they don't want AA I would help them find other options. Not tear them down.. Thanks! Had to vent!
Are we working with each other or against? Aren't we all trying to reach the same goal!? That being sober? Why attack another's belief? There isn't one of us who couldn't find a a reason to to find Fault in another program. We are all unique in our own way, doesn't it make sense that there are different avenues we can take to help our own individual needs? Come on! We all need to work together...encouraging those suffering to find what's best for them, not what we thinks best for them. Present the options ...let them decide... If someone tells me they don't want AA I would help them find other options. Not tear them down.. Thanks! Had to vent!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 19
There's the clumsy use of tenses with regards to being in recovery and being recovered. You can never be fully recovered as you go to meetings forever, irresolute about your use of alcohol (I.e one day at a time sobriety). For this reason I am strongly of the opinion if you have a real drink problem AA probably isn't for you.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by makeabigplan 
For this reason I am strongly of the opinion if you have a real drink problem AA probably isn't for you.
High on Life
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
Posts: 1,157
There are tons of contradictions, but I think mainly because AA is comprised of a motley group. You have to take the good with the bad with anything.
My favorite one is "Meetings won't keep you sober", but the first thing people will question you on is how many meetings you go to. "Do a 90 and 90", "You should go to a meeting everyday", "Meeting makers make it" WTH??
I think AA is a good starting point to help you meet other alcoholics and for you to understand the fact that you are not alone, but I think the longer you stay in the program you will notice the inconsistencies.
The contradictions don't bother me as much as the threats that I will die without the program, but like I said you have to take the good with the bad.
My favorite one is "Meetings won't keep you sober", but the first thing people will question you on is how many meetings you go to. "Do a 90 and 90", "You should go to a meeting everyday", "Meeting makers make it" WTH??
I think AA is a good starting point to help you meet other alcoholics and for you to understand the fact that you are not alone, but I think the longer you stay in the program you will notice the inconsistencies.
The contradictions don't bother me as much as the threats that I will die without the program, but like I said you have to take the good with the bad.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,452
Originally Posted by Zube
Let me begin by stating that AA saved my life. Still does.
However, I cannot help but notice many contraditions within AA.
Just heard a glaring one at a first-step meeting last night. One oldtimer in the room suggested to the newcomer that the first thing he needs to do is to "change everything about himself", and another oldtimer a few chairs down suggested "don't make any major life changes in your first year of sobriety".
HUH!?
Anybody else notice contradictions within AA?
Thanks for sharing,
Zube
However, I cannot help but notice many contraditions within AA.
Just heard a glaring one at a first-step meeting last night. One oldtimer in the room suggested to the newcomer that the first thing he needs to do is to "change everything about himself", and another oldtimer a few chairs down suggested "don't make any major life changes in your first year of sobriety".
HUH!?
Anybody else notice contradictions within AA?
Thanks for sharing,
Zube
To me changing everything about myself is to get rid of my plan for living which got me here to AA. (Thank you Sandy B. AA speaker 12 step saturday morning series)
The only thing I have to change is everything about the way I lived when it comes to me and my drinking.
The other statement about not making any big changes in the first year's implication is with regard to outside/other issues...like pulling a geographic, ending or starting a serious personal relationship...
I don't see these two as contradictions.
To me they are seperate directions/suggestions.
Everything needs to change, yet with care and caution, guidance from our big book, God, sponsors, and their experience.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Zube, that is an interesting question that is posed here. Subjecting AA to critical thinking sort of misses the point of AA. AA is a spiritual program of recovery, and the effective use of AA requires that the contradictions in AA be ignored and denied as a matter of faith. We hear that millions of people have done just this, and they are sober now because of it.
Questioning and examining it has been done and overdone, if you are interested you can find careful and critical discussions elsewhere. I don't believe that such a discussion belongs here. It doesn't help those who believe to believe more strongly, and it shouldn't be used to dissuade others from using every way they can find to get and stay sober.
It works if you work it, and if you can't work it, you have alternatives.
Questioning and examining it has been done and overdone, if you are interested you can find careful and critical discussions elsewhere. I don't believe that such a discussion belongs here. It doesn't help those who believe to believe more strongly, and it shouldn't be used to dissuade others from using every way they can find to get and stay sober.
It works if you work it, and if you can't work it, you have alternatives.
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