A house full of teenagers does have an effect on our brain cells, doesn't it steve?! I think bluto got extirpated, which is a step beyond expurgated.
Your point is good, bikewench--there are some compulsive behaviors where true abstinence wouldn't be an option. We are trying to 'abstain' from the compulsion to overdo the behavior. That is harder to define, just as moderation is hard to define and stick to.
Using abstinence as a baseline, even Moderation Management recommends a 30 day period of abstinence before trying controlled drinking, and they provide guidelines for what 'moderate' means. Since I'm not real familiar with the program, I'm not sure how one would deal with frequently drinking more than the intended amount, or when one decides that moderation 'isn't working'. Audrey Kishline's story really proves nothing, except that she failed at both moderation and abstinence with tragic results. Doesn't prove that AA or MM are failures just because she didn't achieve her goals in either program.
The purpose of this thread was primarily to present, in their own words, the views of different recovery programs about abstinence. It's great to have other quotes from those programs, and the suggestions about other organizations. Discussions about the validity of the different groups seem like topics for new threads. It would be great if we could develop some of this information, with links, so that newcomers could compare. Then, perhaps if we avoid controversy, such threads could become sticky's for future reference....
Don S