Originally Posted by
PurpleReign 
Hmm...
I was hoping you'd prove me wrong. I anticipated your answer, to be honest the content didn't matter - just the point the you had to have control of the thread...the situation...the moment. Cool man, I'm the same way - I've always felt I had a point to prove to the world. I think you may be one of us yet. Whenever you're ready...welcome.
PR I just wanted to clarify my position. But now after thinking about it some, I want to scratch using the word "simple". The concept IS simple, but--like the word "disease" the term is too easy to confuse or be misinterpreted. Actual behavior is simple--you do something. But, the reasons WHY one behaves a certain way--WHY one prefers one value over another can be very complicated. Using the word "simple" probably gives the impression that I think WHY is not complicated. If the answer to that question was easy, this thread would have been done and over long ago. AA works for people because it helps change their values--that is not easy.
As for al-anon, I think it is probably very helpful. I've been to an al-anon meeting before. The big message I got was "it's not your fault" and "don't enable" and "live your own life". Well, the first two are actually somewhat contradictory, and I think I am living my own life even though I am wanting to influence someone I care about. I believe alcoholics can sometimes be influenced and if that is untrue I'll have to learn the hard way. I don't believe I can make my brother stop. But I think he is worth trying to influence. I think understanding the "why" of his behavior is relevant to influencing him.
take care,
ted
Originally Posted by nolonger
It is maybe simple if you focus at the success stories, the ones who stop drinking and turn their lives around. But unfortunately, there are a lot of alcoholics who don’t recover. You might say “they never find something to value more than they value drinking” but that doesn’t take into account that many of them desperately, desperately want to stop, but cannot find a way. They kill themselves not in happy irresponsibility, but in misery, because they don’t want to drink anymore.
I think part of them wants to drink--the very sick part. They want to be numbed from their misery and they don't believe there is a better alternative that will work for them. The lack of belief creates a vacuum of values--there is NO value left that they draw upon to overcome the value alcohol has to them at that point in their lives. Lack of faith kills.
Originally Posted by Grouchothecat
There is no person walking the face of the Earth who demonstrates more courage, dignity and integrity, on a daily basis, than an
addict in recovery.
I don't disagree at all that that is often true. If I sounded like to do, I apologize.
take care,
ted