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You say that "Even doctors who are AA members overwhelmingly do not believe this." I certainly haven't noticed this There is more interesting reading on this here. You may also wish to learn how and why the AMA came to its current position by reading about Marty Mann. |
Thanks, amigo. Take care, CAH |
I dont see many doctors going around in the rooms, pronouncing to a room full of anonymous "members' that they are doctors. Very rarely have I ever heard that, and if I do its normally a new, or newer person who doesnt know any better. |
OK, Matt, these AA doctors attend their own meetings, and aren't generally interested in yours. If you are interested in theirs, you can maybe drop in - https://www.idaa.org/ |
Perhaps these meetings are like the Skull & Bones club...secret medical doctor robes and all. |
Related question: Why does Rational Recovery Systems, Inc. (All Rights Reserved) knock AA methods? |
let me step in there. Here on SR everyone, regardless of belief, agrees to abide by rule 4 (and all our oither rules) as a condition of membership. 4. No Flaming: Posting of any content with the intention of disrupting the forum or inflaming members-be it on someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program. This includes flaming, flame baiting, registration of multiple accounts or impersonation of another member. Do not Harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another Online Forum participant. This includes flaming on our forums or other public forums. No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat. Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again. D |
The title question of this thread raises a very valid point and a good reminder to those of us in 12 step programs. I hope that I don't try to force my path to recovery on others, but I am sure that I have done so at some point(s) during my sobriety. I just want everyone to be sober and healthy and I don't care who takes which avenue to arrive there. |
Dsober, I don't see RR's counterpoints to AA as "knocking". Will you share specifics so I can better understand your viewpoint? |
Originally Posted by soberlicious
(Post 4594919)
Dsober, I don't see RR's counterpoints to AA as "knocking". Will you share specifics so I can better understand your viewpoint? Trimpey's basic premise is AA is a religious based cult (stated) and Trimpey does his best to articulate a well verse argument to support this thesis to prop his program, AVRT up as an alternative to AA. Am I missing something? |
Guys, you know what? So what? I don't get the argument. If its working for you, great. If not, move on and find something else. back in the day there wasn't much more than AA. Now that more is known about addiction, more can be done. plus, with this knowledge we drunks have a higher bottom. we get treatment earlier and with better results. Just my opinion and observations. Love from Lenina |
Dee asked us to drop it; so I am. |
Back to the original question, I don't see AA forcing anything on anyone. I went to them and asked for help. They didn't come to my door. |
I know 2 doctors in AA in our little town. They are nice and I say hello to them, sometimes goodbye at the end of the meeting. I usually have a cup of tea at the meeting. |
Yeah, back to the original question... Other people didn't force the disease on me... I did. Other people, mostly in AA and at church, are teaching me how to deal with it. |
I'd be remiss not to add other people here at SR teaching me as well. |
Originally Posted by jdooner Trimpey's basic premise is AA is a religious based cult (stated) and Trimpey does his best to articulate a well verse argument to support this thesis to prop his program, AVRT up as an alternative to AA. Am I missing something? I asked which parts were seen as "knocking" because my interpretation is different. I see AA and RR as completely different paradigms, so of course each camp is going to have vastly differing viewpoints. Nothing shocking about that to me. Further, I can read things that I don't agree with without getting my knickers in a twist. Trimpey says what he says because he firmly believes it to be true. Wilson said what he said because he firmly believed it to be true. Neither is a big bad meanie pants for doing so. |
Uh oh... Doesn't matter, they both have the same goal and ultimate message: Stop drinking and drugging. |
Exactly. But here's the thing...historically, other methods for quitting were at best dismissed, and at worse vilified. People have been legally mandated to attend AA. When an addicted individual sought help, the choices/options presented have been limited or nonexistent. Things are changing and that's good because people can find a method they can be successful with. That's hopeful. |
I also see AA and RR as completely different paradigms which have completely different viewpoints. Nothing shocking to me about that either. That being said, why does Trimpey need to comment on AA at all, let alone with characterizations like “religious cult”? Could it be he who has his knickers in a twist? |
Originally Posted by dSober
(Post 4593853)
Related question: Why does Rational Recovery Systems, Inc. (All Rights Reserved) knock AA methods? In the end, no matter who you vote for you get a politician. Same goes with sobriety, sort of. No matter what you choose to do and do it, you get sobriety. |
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AA has a right to exist just as any other recovery group but it shouldn't have a monopoly in the recovery community. i think people that go tho rehab or clinics feel there is no other way available to them thus they are having the 12 steps forced on them because if they quit they are looked at as defiant and non compliant. people with little or no insurance are in this demographic |
I think the basis behind RR's founder is not generic. He believes AA needs to be destroyed (his words) and that AA is the reason for addiction (his words). Alcoholics Anonymous: Of Course It’s a Cult! What I found interesting is RR charges roughly $100 for their books whereas AA is free. That was one of the cult tests I did myself. I find one to be a technique and one to be a lifestyle. With less than 15% recovery rates according to rehabs addiction does not have good odds. There is also much money being spent on a growing problem (addiction is on the rise). So this means there is money to be captured by competing programs. Then there is big pharma will billions to spend. I think there are many agendas and motives in the recovery industry just like every other industry, AA included. For what it is worth, I have found learning multiple programs, finding things I like and don't like working the best. For full disclosure, I ran to RR and came back to the 12 steps - perhaps that means I am biased now but I really feel no allegiance to any program. |
You can get the latest copy Rational Recovery's book for a few dollars used on Amazon or EBay. The last time I checked AA was selling their Big Book as well. Some meetings do give them to newcomers for free though. I was given mine. AA has been around for seventy some years. It is all some people know. It isn't a mystery why it gets the most coverage. If your only tool is a hammer all problems look like nails. |
I feel bad for men like Jack Trimpey. I don't follow the 12 steps. I also don't devote my energy towards manafesting ill will towards them. I try to devote my energy towards things I like. |
Awuh, Trimpey may well have his knickers in a twist. I guess only he could answer that, but regardless I think the old "principles above personalities" might apply here. I personally wouldn't hang out with the dude because I think he knicker-twists about a lot of things, but that doesn't mean I dismiss everything he says. The same applies to all programs or modes of recovery I've learned about. Jdooner, yes recovery is big business. For what it's worth, neither RR nor AA endorses treatment centers. Those centers are generating tens of thousands of dollars per patient per month. |
I asked folks to stay away from RR vs AA topics up thread. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post4593863 Seems that was too much to ask so - we're done. D |
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