'Not only do I not want to consider myself something apart from normal, I don't think doing so would be accurate. Nor do I think seeing myself as abnormal would be conducive to improvement.'

Then the right thing is to not do that until you see it differently.

Instead of addict or alcoholic, why not use the words that you were comfortable using during your lifetime before last December for those conditions, and just go with that instead?

I appreciate all the input & responses.

Allow me to expand on my initial post.

I certainly believe that being honest with yourself regarding your addiction to be necessary to recovery. Mandatory, really. You can't fix a problem you don't admit exists. But that's not exactly where I was going with this.

In my opinion, having & maintaining a positive attitude - believing that you can achieve what you set out to do - is critical for success in any arena. With addicts, you're often dealing with people who from the start don't have the best self-image or much confidence in themselves. It just seems to me that the mindset that one is substantially different from 'normal' people would only work to further undermine one's confidence and self-image, thereby undermining their efforts. Human beings aren't meant to operate in isolation. Feeling different from everyone else, IMO, isn't conducive to healing. I also see plenty of potential for using the idea as an excuse for returning to one's drug of choice... "I can't help myself! I'm not normal!".

What's been of great aid to me, in my struggle, is to focus on exactly the opposite line of thought. That I AM normal. That there are TONS of people out there that have substance abuse problems. That such problems could affect anyone given the right set of circumstances. That substance abuse, at its core, centers around natural biological responses & drives. And if other people manage life without engaging in self-destructive, drug-seeking behavior, then so can I. That's empowering - not isolating.

It's worth mentioning that I don't consider the 'social drinker' as being normal. We like to pick out people who don't share our problems and see them as trouble free, which of course is far from the truth. What about the cheaters, who often destroy their families & careers driven by their biological desires? What about the obese, hooked on the feel-good chemicals their own bodies produce in response to their self-destructive eating habits. How about the businessman who avoids dealing with his unhappiness by working himself into the grave? I could come up with countless examples, but you don't have to look very far into the world of 'normal' to see that their problems are alot like ours once you look past the surface.

I think the bottom line is you should do whatever works for you. But the whole 'I'm different from everyone else, powerless to change my life mantra' doesn't work for me. Instead, I look to other 'normal' people who have addressed long-standing issues in their lives & come out on top.

For me, it's actually very simple. I never drink or get high, and I don't give a **** what anyone else thinks about it. :)

Nicely put GrowingDaily.

First off, it is not abnormal to be sick or afflicted with a malady. It is an entirely normal part of the human experience. It is worth noting also that 'normal' and 'unique' are not the same exceptions to the rules you speak of.

Secondly, this 'badge of honor' you speak of, as I've seen and experienced it? This is more a condition that results from spectacular relief and gratitude. Relief in having survived something truly horrible - not unlike someone who's survived being lost at sea, made it through a viscous assault or maybe an earthquake, with their cahones intact. The feelings that come once a drunk has beaten back that bottle, once we know full well that we've effectively saved our own life, it becomes no smaller or less significant than having survived any other 'worst case scenarios' life can throw at us.

I say this from experience, having survived a few real-world catastrophes of my own. To take one as an example; what I feel today knowing I am sober against all odds, it hits the same spot in my heart as when I finally landed at the Singapore airport from Phuket. I had watched 40 ft tsunami waves coming straight at me, and watched many, many people die - some only a few feet from my position. At that time I had no doubts that I would be dead in seconds, no illusions that I was to survive, and yet survive I did. Today, it feels NO different to me having survived that tsunami - to my surviving alcoholism. Before I hit my alcoholic bottom I knew full well I was gonna die just the same as if I ended up under the ocean sucking in sea water. The same life flashed before my eyes in both circumstances, and the same peril was ever present and looming large. Therefore, the same visible gratitude is present in me now.

Yeah, I guess some can look at a recovered addict's attitude and call it 'badge of honor' mentality. I'd describe it more as an exquisite joy borne from incredible relief. One could even mistake it as prideful, but I don't think that's accurate. Pride is insignificant when thinking of what some of us have clawed our way back from. Thing is, whatever the applied term, it all leads down the same road to the same destination. Surviving alcoholism/addiction is just as meaningful to some as any other perilous and life threatening situation - and it leaves good reason for being inflated with, for lack of a better word, honor.

You speak of "identifying as an addict". In my experience, "identifying" as an addict was not even a question, it was as obvious as sunlight. That I was different from other folks where drinking is concerned was absolutely elementary. My identifying with this never harmed nor helped. It was something that just... was... much the same as noticing my clothes getting soaked as I walk in the rain. To not identify as an alcoholic after a certain point would have been delusional.

Sure normal people have issues, as I do, but they don't have alcoholic issues, as I do. Therein lies the difference. Their dot.com stocks go bust, as do ours, but they don't drink themselves to death over it, whereas we tend to do just that. Their family struggles can become overwhelming - as can ours - but they deal with it differently simply because drinking is the farthest thing from their minds when struggle occurs. Drinking (to get drunk) is NOT a part of conflict resolution for normal folks. However, drinking (to get drunk) is one of the FIRST things that comes to an alcoholics mind given to any stimuli.

And yes, it is completely accurate to say we are markedly similar to the man who works himself to death, or the woman who eats herself into a coma, e.t.c..., they/we are all people with unique and problematic conditions. Having said that, most 'disorders' of that nature are quite effectively treated with cognitive based therapy, medications, psychiatry, e.t.c... There is a great deal of quantifiable evidence available to show such success. However alcoholism has historically proven elusive and much harder to treat than those in the examples you provided, when given to the same therapies. Which is why, like it or not, we are somewhat separated in this thing.

Also worth noting that not everyone who drinks chronically (in excess) becomes an alcoholic, but there are those who may not drink at all, yet once they make a choice to drink they display alcoholic behavior immediately. This is another inherent difference in pathology that allows for the "us vs them" paradigm to manifest.

Like it or not, identify with it or not, if you are alcoholic the differences are significant and glaring, between the array of problems we face and the problems others face. Notice I said 'difference'. That's certainly not to say folks with alcoholism/addiction are better or worse, more normal or less normal, having more or less struggles, or that we're some sort of special kind of sick. It's just that the differences are there, they are documented, and such differences are unique to alcoholism/addiction.

GD, If you have the same condition I have, yet it makes more sense for you NOT to identify yourself as "different", just don't bother with such distinctions. They make no difference anyway, unless it affects your self esteem in some way. Simple enough. Who cares what anyone thinks about it anyway? People are entirely overrated. Trust me on that.

Dress it down or up, whatever works... works. But adjusting for that, there are certain hallmarks, certain sets of physiological conditions that come in step with progressive alcoholic behavior. These conditions are not present in those absent the issue. And no, alcoholism does not happen to everyone just by drinking enormous amounts of booze. It doesn't help, but it's not the definitive course of action. Alcoholism occurs exclusively in people with a propensity for it, and is ignored by people without such a propensity.

You can come to believe your entirely normal, and that is perfectly fine if it helps to keep you from drinking. I'm here to tell you that if you are an alcoholic like I was you are not normal. But guess what? You're also not abnormal. You're simply a person, like many of us here, afflicted with a unique set of circumstances, and as such there are unique treatments available.

That was an amazing post, Peter. Thank you.

Although in general we are talking about the utility (or lack thereof) of labels, I think the issue of identifying as an "addict" or "alcoholic" is a different one from the "normal" vs. "abnormal" question.

For some, self-labeling as an addict or alcoholic--for years after the drinking or drugging has ceased--is apparently helpful. I have not personally found it so--for me, there's just nothing positive or helpful about continual identification with a problem I left behind during the Clinton administration--but I get that others feel differently.

The "normal" vs. "abnormal" thing, though...well, I think that's almost universally problematic because it's inherently divisive. If somebody's "normal" well then somebody's not, setting up all kinds of black/white, us/them thinking, and the dreaded "normies just don't understand" wherein it's actually BAD to be "normal".

Wait a second. The arcade section has bejewelled? I am SO there. Woot!

Interesting post GrowingDaily. You do have me thinking as some of the points you make resonate well with me. Its unnecessary for me to publicly identify as an addict. I will admit in forms like this that I am an addict. Except now I'm thinking it would be better to just say 'I used to have a problem with alcohol/drugs' as I'm more than a past dope fiend.

We have an arcade section???

Ka-Pow! See, this is what's vexing my section. Do you ever leave it behind? Can you? There's a thought that's bugging me: I've spent years obsessed about something I do. Am I now going to spend the rest of my life obsessed about something I don't do?

hello all!
 

:c031:

Yes, you can, but only if you kick the recovery lifestyle to the curb as well. A tad bit difficult to escape the subject of drinking/using otherwise.

'Ka-Pow! See, this is what's vexing my section. Do you ever leave it behind? Can you? There's a thought that's bugging me: I've spent years obsessed about something I do. Am I now going to spend the rest of my life obsessed about something I don't do?'

Maybe just don't drink for a while and after some time has passed then ask yourself if you're truly as obsessed as you're now worried that you'll be and if in fact you are suffering from that obsession at that future time, after not drinking for a while.

I highly doubt you'll be suffering from a non-drinking obsession in the far future, fwiw. Can't think of anyone with decent time who is. People who stay on the razor's edge, obsessing about drinking or not drinking aren't able to stand that for too long, as it's too hot a spot.

Taking ownership for a drinking problem and / or for alcoholism is not whatsoever detrimental to recovery. I do believe for myself though eventually one must move forward from recovery into being recovered, not everyone agrees with that, and no problemo. I agree with it. :)

I happily and proudly present myself as a recovered alcoholic drug addict and nothing less. No apologies. Plenty of regrets. Lotsa smiles. :)

Nobody looks surprised whatsoever, lol. Nobody does any second takes or stares in disbelief, hahaha. No one has ever said to me "C'mon... you sure don't look like an alcoholic." So I present authentically if nothing else, hahaha.

Not only do they accept I am recovered they also accept I am still alcoholic or was alcoholic. And when i say no to any offered drink from those who don't realize I have quit, I don't get offered again when I reply I don't drink, thanks. It's not surprising that I'm offered a drink because I absolutely look like I would enjoy drinking, hahaha.

You can always take the kid off the street but you can never take the street outta the kid, heh heh. I am what I am sober as I was drunk.

Very humorous thread, guys. Very enjoyable. :)

Thanks, GrowingDaily.

:c031:

Sure you can. At least I can. I know, because I did.

And if you think about it, that's really not such a strange or bizarre thing.

For example, I also smoked and had an eating disorder years ago (yes, I was a bit of a mess :c020:). But no one is shocked in the least that I don't self-identify as a smoker or an anorexic today--in fact they'd be shocked if I DID. So I find it, to say the least, a little weird that the expectation is somehow different when it comes to other addictions or other destructive behaviors that we no longer practice.

Another thought...I wouldn't expect to grow out of whatever your blood type is. Mine's O-negative and pretending otherwise the rest of my life might bring me grief. Even if I like the cool sound of being A-positive. You'll always have the condition that brought you here, and some continual awareness of that is a good idea.

Some believe they've morphed into something new and special, or back to the physical condition they were in prior to drinking, but you'll note they aren't too interested in testing those murky waters with their purportedly un-alcoholic selves. Ordinarily they'll assure you they could drink very well no doubt at all, but simply choose not to because it's the healthier and more intelligent and good looking course. And those that eventually do give the lie to that line of thinking as they're quickly down the tube again, no matter how pre-alcoholic or un-alcoholic they may have earlier prided themselves as being.

When the booze is in the belly of an alcoholic, it really doesn't much matter what the alcoholic's word preferences on the subject are, things are going to go their timeless common course. If they manage to struggle back sober they can again kid themselves they are special and in a pristine pre-alcoholic state...until the next time.

It's important to know what you've got, why you don't drink, and what will happen if you do, without constructing comforting but self-deluding fantasies to ignore the realities that go with being alcoholic.

This is the peculiar inversion taught in recovery groups that I mentioned earlier, where if you aren't 'alcoholic', you absolutely must drink. This line of thinking is perverse, and only a group of drunks could have possibly come up with it. There won't be any 'next time', not in my case at least.

'There won't be any 'next time', not in my case at least.'

Well, I sure hope so. All our neighborhoods are safer if people who are not alcoholic but have a terrible drinking history don't drink.

Excellent thread. I'll just add that, imo, the term "normal" is completely relative, and the implications are so overrated ;)