is there a suboxone vs. methadone topic?
 

which one is it that you can snort? the subutex? I'm getting down to my final 2 weeks of tapering down from oxy, so i want some answers gorrrrrrrsh darn it.

you can snort subutex, cannot snort methadone or suboxone.

Well technically you can snort any of them but i wouldn't recommend snorting either of the latter two(from personal experience)

I'm weining off oxy right now... 2morow I'll be down to 80mgs... I wanna get on subutex, that that brand name?....ugh i hate insurance

my suggestion would be to go on a short term taper with methadone. Not only is it the cheapest med out of the 3 it is also the most effective in MY personal experience getting off dope.

do they have generic versions? my deductable for brand name is $500! oh and can my regular doc perscribe methadone?

Regular doctors cannot *legally* prescribe methadone to known drug addicts. The law says you have to go to a clinic, where you get to stand in line with a bunch of other junkies, many of whom still use heroin, every day. And after many months of clean **** tests, you *may* start getting to take home a couple days worth of the stuff at a time.

Doctors who have completed the proper 8-hour buprenorphine 'certification' can prescribe it on an outpatient basis to opiate addicts from their PRIVATE practices. They can give you as much to take home as they feel comfortable doing. My doc after 2 months started giving me 3 weeks worth at a time, then after 5 months I got a whole months worth at a time.

There is no generic buprenorphine at present, just subutex/suboxone. It doesn't take long (maybe two weeks) usually before you can start living on about 8mg a day, no matter how big your habit was. That usually runs you about 7 bucks a day. Compared to dope of ANY kind on the street, that's dirt cheap.

I don't recommend methadone to anyone but the most hardcore junkies, or maybe to people doing a short-term taper IN REHAB. Outside of rehab I can guarantee you're far better off on buprenorphine my friend...

And yes, D-Boy is correct about the snorting thing. Subutex of the three only. That's what I was on, + that's how I did it 99% of the time. Not as 'kind' as oxy by that route, but you get used to it. Gotta do *small* amounts at a time ...

i dunno your defination of hardcore junkie but i'd take 200mg of oxy in 2hours and also mix it with valium sometimes also. Just trying to figure which route to take because after i wein off I don't want those cravings at all!

good points bvaljalo , i forgot to mention i did my short term taper while in rehab.

I don't know how it works if you are not in a facility.

Okay, well, that certainly qualifies as a hefty friggin dose of Oxy, for sure.

The defining point here being that if you're TOO hardcore of a junkie (like, shooting a gram of dope a day for ten, fifteen years) bupe may not be strong enough to work for you. You may need to get on methadone if you're in that bad of a way.

If you've gotten down to 80mg a day, you'll have NO problem making bupe work for you when the time comes. You'll have no cravings on it at all past the first 24-48 hours, which can admittedly be a little 'rough' while you make the transition.

I'm really sorry if I'm gonna come across out of order here cus I know that everyone here is struggling...

but the thing is... this thread has caused me some distress today and I think it's important to say this.

At the moment I am on a subutex detox and have been for about 7 months. As I said on your other thread Fluffy, subs have saved my life and I am SO much stronger now...

but I am still a weak addict and I do struggle sometimes and to be perfectly honest with you guys, talking about snorting subs is really unhelpful to my recovery and it's pissed me off that people are discussing it.

I have always loved shoving things up my nose... anything really and my nose has suffered for it...


but the thing is that was how I was in active addiction. Of course, I've wanted to snort subs but have I done it? NO... because I am taking them to recover and I've put faith in my doctor to help me get better. Surprisingly, my doctor did not tell me to crush my subs up and snort them!!!

Like a good girl, I put them under my tongue and wait for them to dissolve as prescribed.

Snorting drugs is not recovery surely?

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as anal. It's just, if you knew how hard it had been for me to do this right and how close this thread made me come to wanting to snort my subs, I think you might understand why I'm upset.

Fluffy, I hope you find the right path. It is such a shame that cost is an issue. This is where I am eternally grateful for the NHS. I know my doctor could have prescribed me either methadone or subs and he was keen to go on the sub route (remember he doesn't gain financially by this choice). The way he put it would be that he (as an addiction specialiast) would prescribe methadone for someone with a severe heroin addiction to stabalise them on and then put them on subs once they'd stabalised on the methadone. With me, he just made me stabalise on painkillers (still at a high dose) and then switched to subs. THIS IS JUST MY EXPERIENCE!!!

I had a 20 year hydrocodone habit (also used heroin IV for 6 months of that time), and I tried bupe back when it was still "experimental" (2000) and they prescribed it as an injection (subcutaneous). It did NOTHING for either me or my husband, and I mean NOTHING. I later tried methadone and that has worked great! I have been on methadone for close to 4 years now. I have had monthly takehomes for a long time now so I only go in once per month. I have never once had anyone offer me drugs or ask me to buy drugs from them at the clinic nor have I ever seen such activity take place. Contrary to popular opinion, not all clinics are open air drug markets--many are well run, quiet, friendly places. However, I would always advise anyone to try Bupe FIRST, simply because of the stigma and the BS you can get with the clinic system.

fluffy,
I know what the panic feels like.. to not want to have to "suffer" withdrawls and cravings and to have to work for this. I can almost hear the panic in your words. I have been living that same nightmare for the last year. I have done the same things as far as rationalizing why I continued to take the med, why I medically needed it, why why why. And how scared I was to go thru w/d and didn't want to crave. Basically.. without being non-compassionate which I am totally NOT I am a very understanding person.. I have to say this. Nothing comes for free.. nothing comes without work and some degree of pain. We are addicts. In no uncertain terms for whatever reason we did this to ourselves. yes we all have our own stories and reasons, but ultimately the one shoving the pills in or the needle in is staring us in the mirror everyday. So why do we deserve to do this painlessly? I personally feel I deserved to get my a** kicked for this. And going throu the w/d do just that. It brings us out stronger and hopefully more Pi**ed in the end to fight this addiction even more. It seems to me and just my opinion of course that u are letting fear run this for you. And indeed money is an issue sometimes, but in the end isn't it about sobriety? And stopping the addiction. I won't even go into the damage you are causing by snorting anything but fresh ocean saline up your nose can do. You should be focusing on taking the treatment you can get... taking it exactly like your doctor wants you to and getting clean. I only say this cause this is a tape I have played in my own player for a long long time. sorry.. stepping off the box now..
Kari

trust me, I've been through rough times while recovering, really rough, so please do not assume that because I didn't mention it, that it did not happen. I had a week where I would wake up crying uncontrollably, I'd get panic attacks so badly i couldn't breathe. I tried to stop cold turkey and I couldn't, guess I'm not as strong as you are. It lasted about 3 days, and had to call up someone to get morphine pills, then after that made me feel better, went right back to oxy's. withdrawls are the worse thing in the world, and ya if a pill can help me avoid that, then a pill is what i will take, not to get high, not to replace it with a different drug................ TO GET BETTER! I'm not looking for highs anymore at all. I almost OD'd and that's what made me stop if you read my other post you'd know my whole story. I've also been through paxil withdrawls too which are equally as horrible, so trust me, I'm putting in my work to get better, not just skipping down the street saying yippee today i took my magic pills everyone and I'm so much better now!

I'm sorry squirty if it made you feel like that, the reason I asked is because the one you can snort, is the one I do not want. I'm used to snorting things, which is part of the habbit, so whichever one I can't snort I want.

I'm certainly NOT encouraging anyone to do their meds in a method other than prescribed.

HOWEVER ...

With regards to bupe, the reality is that it simply does not work unless it enters your bloodstream DIRECTLY. It was used for many DECADES in hospitals as a pain reliever, where it was administered via injection.

A good friend of mine, who actually posts on this board, was part of a pilot program many years ago where doctors were giving heroin addicts buprenorphine in it's usual, injectable form, on a take home basis, to use instead of heroin. She used it, and weaned off of it, and got CLEAN off opiates in this program. This was before subutex/suboxone existed or was technically 'approved' for this purpose. So ... you tell me ... was it WRONG for her to use bupe in this way, via injection, just like she used to do her heroin?

The form that bupe exists in NOW, a *very* hefty dose in sublingual pill form (hefty because a relatively small percentage actually absorbs via your mouth) is simply a route of administration that happens to work and was considered the most convenient format to distribute the drug in. It makes it VERY expensive, relatively speaking. If you were to look up the absorption ratios for the drug, you'd find the following routes, in descending order: 1) IV injection, 2) IM injection, 3) Rectal, 4) Nasal, 5) Sublingual. I'll leave it up to you to determine the 'cost analysis' here. For some of us, cost was/is a BIG issue with bupe.

I would also point out that NONE of the available routes of admin will magically change bupe into a drug that will get you 'high'. They are what they are ... means of getting the drug into your bloodstream directly by avoiding the effects that the stomach and the liver have on the drug (which render it useless).

Bottom line, in my book, the route of administration is of minimal consequence in the overall scheme of things. What's important is getting on, staying on, weaning down, getting off of the stuff, WITHOUT going back to short-acting opiates like heroin or oxys.

Others may disagree, and again, by all means, take it as prescribed if you can. I personally could not do it that way, couldn't get myself to stay on it if I had to sit and suck it every day. An alternate route worked for me, my nose is fine, and I've got almost 10 months clean right now. WHATEVER IT TAKES my friends...

I'll make a small confession... when I was going through suboxone detox, sometime in the middle of my taper I tried to snort my dose. I was just yearning for some kind of a buzz but didn't want to relapse. I almost posted a thread about this stupidity here but I didn't want to give anybody any ideas.

My conclusion: A total of waste of time. I don't think it effected me quicker, nor stronger.

So from drug addict to another, my advice is don't do it. Not because it's wrong, not because it represents a failure in your attitude towards quitting, but just because it doesn't effin' work!

Fluffy....

I can see that you are struggling with the very real truth that you will, most probably, need to endure some withdrawal symptoms in order to kick your habit....

I could not have said it better than kari 08, who posted exactly what I would have wanted to say to you....

How many more times are you going to try to substitute your DOC with another DOC?

Methodone is not for you--you were even informed of this, right? What you must do to even get into an MMTP requires you to do some pretty dangerous things...

I am not educated about subutex, buprenorphine or any of these "newer" methods of opiate withdrawal, so I will leave this topic alone.

I know your story and you know how I feel about your issues. I think kari 08's post should be printed out and posted on your bathroom mirror, my dear friend.

Fluffy. Why did you ask which drug you can snort?

if you looked up about 5 posts you'd see the reason... I want one you can't snort, since its part of the habbit and addiction. I'm having such a hard time even trying to find a place to go to to get one. I do not want methadone at all, so its either just weening off and hopping for no relapse, or subs

its funny that some people assume things, I don't recall posting hey guys I'm not gonna go through withdrawls at the end of my of my weening off, everythings gonna be perfect and I'll never crave for an opiate ever again! If i have posted that please point it out to me, what I am looking for is suboxone, because from what I understand about the drug it takes the cravings away, and even if you take an opiate it blocks it from the receptors in your brain. Of course there are going to be withdrawls, I've been through them before and I'm prepared for em again, you guys are saying things as if I think I'm gonna be a ok after all of this, I went from 200mgs snorting at night to nothing when i tried to quit the first time and couldn't handle it, guess i'm not as strong as you guys are, I don't understand your reasoning behind the whole we deserve to suffer because of what we did to ourselves, that makes no sense what so ever, its not like I intended for things to get this out of control, just wanted to try something new and fun, which it was at first, but deserving to suffer is a strange way to put it, thats like saying someone who slits there wrist to kill themselves doesn't deserve the paramedics help, they stand back and say ma'am you did this to yourself, you knew what you were doing when you first started cutting, I think you need to endure a little bit more pain and bloodloss so you learn your lesson before I attempt to stop the bleeding. Then after they save her, and bandage her up she's completely fine and has no bad thoughts at all! she's wonderful, everythings wonderful. no I do not deserve to suffer, if theres a way to help me not, I would take it, and i think suboxone is the way to go. Thats a very strange way of looking at things.

"Methodone is not for you--you were even informed of this, right? What you must do to even get into an MMTP requires you to do some pretty dangerous things..."

What kind of dangerous things?

Methdone saved my life.


Noah

Noah....

Fluffy would have to shoot or snort Heroin to get into MMTP--I think this was on another thread, but I was under the impression that this particular variable ruled out MMTP for the Fluffyarmpit~~~~who is not shooting or sniffing Heroin at this time, if I recall correctly. That is what I meant by dangerous things...People, places, and things. Violence perpetrated upon others for dope and upon oneself. If that is the case, I shall shush me mouth and never speak of MMTP as a negative solution. Yet, if one is seeking methodone in order to switch to another addiction, than I need to share my thoughts on it, which I did several times and on different threads.

I certainly agree that Methodone saves, has saved, and will save lives and as one who takes this medication for pain management, it has saved me from the agony of chronic pancreatitis pain. However, I am an addict and managed to screw up that situation as well, since I lied about my pain control in order to get Dilaudid and other narcotics which are used in pain management when the methodone is not enough at times. I manipulated my pain doc to raise me to 150 MG of methodone plus prescribe me Ambien. Point is, I know how dangerous I was with this drug, finally copped to it, and now am facing a gradual taper. I am currently on 90 MG and got to this point in one month. I was going to be reduced again to 60 MG but my pain doc sees that I am having "real" pain and has decided to let me stay where I am. For now....

If methodone keeps you from using Heroin and involving yourself with needles, guns, and robbing innocent people, not to mention the dangers of contracting a deadly disease, than far be it for me to even question its application to you or anyone else, for that matter....

However, I recall a different stroy with my beloved Fluffy : )

I shall cease and desist from this point on....

:ghug3

I must have misunderstood this entire thread, Fluffy. My apologies to you. and I only am responding to my own gut feeling that stems back from a thread you posted when you first came on SR as well as for reading Squirty's reaction to the GENERAL issue of snorting, which I again, apologize for, if you felt that I attributed this to you. I did not and will not. It happened to be a topic of discussion and yes, I did ask you why you asked that question. Now, it is clear to me. Yet, I feel bad for the member who had to experience what he or she did on this thread...I share the distress that this member experienced, but do not blame you. I blame the word.

I also want you to feel better, my friend, but I cannot express a suggestion that I completely disagree with. I know of methods used in NY that are quite common in which one can literally get off any opiate in 36 hours. I am not kidding and some of these places are advertized on the home page of this website.

If detoxing from opiates weren't painful by nature, then there would be no need for support groups, inpatient rehab (another option mentioned some time back by another member), or the term, sick and struggling addict.

There is no easy way to kick it. I am sorry to say that, and it is not intended as a personal attack, okay?

My last comment is that addiction is far more than just taking a drug.

ksos, stop posting medical advice about what people need and what they don't need, you are really starting to **** me off. you're sitting here telling me I don't need methadone because i'm trading one habbit for another, then in your last post you said you're on methadone and you lied to your doc to get more mgs of drugs than what you really needed. Until you post a certificate certifying that you are in fact a doctor that specializes in drug dependancies... stop telling people what they need and don't need. You sound more like a hypocrit than anything else.

Sorry. I cannot cease and desist when I am quoted in a post<smiles>!

I am not posting medical advice.

I also am not calling you names. I am finished, now. Good luck, Fluffy.

I'm not calling you names either, I stated a fact, you are a hypocrite. And thank you for leaving this thread, you served no purpose.

Actually, I added something to the thread, Fluffyarmpit. I simply think that your "disease" is activated to the point where you have simply lost your perspective on what recovery involves or is about, that you decided to viciously lash out on three members here who simply did not assume the position of rubbing your addict belly, and basically demonstrated that one can be any age to have an infantile tantrum, only because someone didn't endorse your BS by acting as your "enabler".

Wouldn't it be grand if Ksos simply applauded your initial question of wanting to know which out of three drugs, could be snorted ? Fluffy. Do you or don't you see the madness behiond this type of question? And, to make this entire evening fun and dandy, you attack a member whose one crime was that he or she expressed a feeling . I recall that this member said words to the effect that "Maybe discussing snorting drugs is not recovery?"

Fluffy. My story is well known here in SR since I've been honest, open, and humble more than once here. I do not need you to tell me that I am a hypocrite or that I have screwed up my life more than any one person can do in three lifetimes.

Unlike you, I have laid it out for all to see and to hopefully, learn something from what my mistakes were and ultimately resulted in. Rather, I would hope that you would call me out on my behaviors which led to the "losses" I have experienced. How about calling me a sick and suffering human being, since I am one? Why don't you you call me a fool? I am certainly not a hypocrite, for I am not that successful to be one of those. I had a beautiful wife of 17 years, a gifted and special daughter, a two-family brownstone home, a luxury car, and a career which had all of the documents, degrees, and certifications necessary to let me have 5 or 6 vacations a year. You wanna see them, right? They are here, but some of them have been revoked because of my own stubborness and stupidity, Fluffy. One or two cannot be revoked because I obtained them during my brief spurts of sobriety, but they can be tossed in with the rest, if it would make it better for someone else.

Know what? I got nothing, now. If this makes you laugh, than go ahead and rub my nose in it. All I want to do now, if anything, was to point out the behaviors I have acted out on, which have resulted in me basically having three suits and a few pair of underwear left, since I had to sell everything to pay off my divorce, my drug debts, and the endless bills which are knawing away at the one actual item that I do still own, which is my one bedroom condominium. The same damned behaviors I saw you post not that long ago. Know what? I could not care less if I ticked you off--in fact, I am glad I did, since I obviously had an effect on you. Oh, I made a mistake about the condo, Fluffy. Actually, it now belongs to my parents, for they have paid my monthly mortgage for the past 9 months, since I wanted my little "relief" from my pain...

You are so right, in a way. Who the hell am I to be giving my love, support, and caring to a person like you who obviously thinks that I am not worth $h-t on a sandwich.

Okay. Now, you can have the last word. And I promise that I will not respond any more on this asinine thread of relapse...


Ksos

Its really too bad that what seems to be a thread asking for help has turned so bad. I took two days for me to just sit back and think about what I said.. why I needed to be attacked like that, and got all read up and prepared to defend myself... but you know I am not sure its worth it. After starting over 6 threads in a matter of days asking and infact BEGGING people to give you their experiences.. input advice .. you constantly get defensive and down right abrasive when people give you exactly what you want. I did read your stories.. for the last two hours I have reread them.. and bottom line is urgency and panic. Instead of going back a few pages and looking through some of the blogs posted here.. which have fantastic information in them, you continually started a new one begging for attention to your problem. Which is great.. you got tons of people to respond.. telling their stories for the 1st, 10th, or 100th time. People here are reliving their usage, their struggles, their tragedies, and their own personal successes. I thought I sympathized with you in the beginning.. because your story of medical necessity was so much like mine. And the reasons for using morphed into similar ones. But we are very different and now.. I am sorry I posted my feelings on your precious thread. I almost deleted my profile off this site after your response.. and that would have been a tragedy for me, because good or bad.. same or different EVERY person that graced MY THREAD was a blessing. And to leave this site because of someone that hasn't come to terms with their problem and is constantly lashing out at those that try to give you exactly what you asked for at least 5 different times would have been my huge loss. I love the people here and they have been huge to my recovery. Wether it is cold turkey, which I have not done.. I am tapering. Or whether it is with clinic, or rehab, or whatever.. each person is entitled to tell their story. And sometimes by pointing out observations which can suck to hear sometimes.. it might be that one little thing that makes us wake up and realize we are worthy of being clean and we can do it. I know I can.. may not be like you, may not be like the next guy. But by me saying I need MY A** kicked for this I wasn't saying that the poor person that just slit their wrist needs to suffer. That was just rude. I was saying I need to suffer a little. And bvaljalo said it as well.. he couldn't make it toooo easy on himself or no lesson learned. You said in a post.. "I look forward to hearing from other oxy users and what U went throu and MAY BE STILL GOING THROU" Well you did hear from one.. and you just lost one. And maybe that means nothing to you, but keep insulting and lashing out at people and there will be a line for the door. I don't speak for anyone when I say.. I wish you the very best in recovery. I pray you make it in WHATEVER form it takes. Life it worth it and you are worth it.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD BYE
Kari